What was the first semi automatic pellet gun?

[moodyblues]

I’m still on airguns.
A double action revolver is chambering a round every time you pull the trigger. A da/sa semi auto trigger is cocking the striker on the first round, but the gun loads the rounds and cocks the striker every consecutive shot. Double action in a semi auto is only referring to cocking the hammer. I used poor terminology in my earlier post sorry.

IMO since we have true semi auto airguns, I would leave double action airguns out of the discussion. BUT I like all of them and enjoy learning about them so y’all are doing good!

 

[AirNGasman]

Think I can explain why some don't consider double-action revolvers to be true semi-autos.

'Semi-auto' is short for 'semi-automatic'. And semi-automatic INFERS pulling the trigger 'triggers' automatic cycling of the ACTION actually loading the next round INTO the chamber. Double-action revolvers don't do that. Else why wouldn't double-action revolvers be called semi-autos, rather than revolvers?

In the end, people believe what they want to believe; sometimes going so far as to attempt to redefine terms to support their belief(s). In this case there is little harm in letting people believe what they want, so the debate serves no purpose other than entertainment value. I see nothing wrong with such entertainment; I engage in it frequently.

In other cases such terminology debates carry profound implications and/or consequences. Examples- Some believe biological males should be allowed to contest female competitions. Or simply identifying as something should pass social muster as reality.

BTW, I identify as a cave-man. But there are good reasons for that; among them my allergies to puzzles, high-tech, social media, pop culture, plastic stocks, and superfluous shooting gadgetry.

Og engaging in field target competition with his 3-6X telescoped 1963-vintage rifle, in his competition t-shirt, jeans, sneakers and socks.

 

[BigTinBoat]

Think I can explain why some don't consider double-action revolvers to be true semi-autos.

'Semi-auto' is short for 'semi-automatic'. And semi-automatic INFERS pulling the trigger 'triggers' automatic cycling of the ACTION actually loading the next round INTO the chamber. Double-action revolvers don't do that. Else why wouldn't double-action revolvers be called semi-autos, rather than revolvers?

In the end, people believe what they want to believe; sometimes going so far as to attempt to redefine terms to support their belief(s). In this case there is little harm in letting people believe what they want, so the debate serves no purpose other than entertainment value. I see nothing wrong with such entertainment; I engage in it frequently.

In other cases such terminology debates carry profound implications and/or consequences. Examples- Some believe biological males should be allowed to contest female competitions. Or simply identifying as something should pass social muster as reality.

So is the huben a semi auto? By statement above it is not. In fact, are there ANY air guns that fit the "next round into the chamber" scenerio?

 

[AirNGasman]

"So is the huben a semi auto? By statement above it is not. In fact, are there ANY air guns that fit the "next round into the chamber" scenerio?"

Good points, Big.

 

[moodyblues]

I don’t know a lot about the Huben besides they’re cool. If the trigger indexes the revolving magazine then I wouldn’t consider it an automatic. A semi auto can use a revolving magazine and still be a true semi auto, it just uses something else to index the magazine. Ruger 10/22 is a revolving mag. The AEA semi autos use air out of the barrel to cycle the action. That would be a true semi auto.

 

[BigTinBoat]

I don’t know a lot about the Huben besides they’re cool. If the trigger indexes the revolving magazine then I wouldn’t consider it an automatic. A semi auto can use a revolving magazine and still be a true semi auto, it just uses something else to index the magazine. Ruger 10/22 is a revolving mag. The AEA semi autos use air out of the barrel to cycle the action. That would be a true semi auto.

So it looks like the definition could go from
1- all you have to do is pull the trigger and a round will fire with each pull, doing nothing else.
2- you pull the trigger and a round fires, but then something else in the gun advances the mag, or chambers the projectile (like the excess gas, or springs, etc) and a round fires for each pull of the trigger doing nothing else.
3- you pull the trigger and fire a round and the spent gas loads the next projectile into the chamber and cocks the gun doing nothing else except pulling the trigger again


So just pick your definition as to what you consider a semi auto, someone else will (as I've shown) have a counter argument

 

[Miami Airgunner]

Think I can explain why some don't consider double-action revolvers to be true semi-autos.

'Semi-auto' is short for 'semi-automatic'. And semi-automatic INFERS pulling the trigger 'triggers' automatic cycling of the ACTION actually loading the next round INTO the chamber. Double-action revolvers don't do that. Else why wouldn't double-action revolvers be called semi-autos, rather than revolvers?

This is one reason I think the Leshiy 2 is so interesting.

It literally doesn't fit any of the definitions, but I'd still call it a semi auto (much, I'm certain, to the chagrin of our English friends, who are able to own it on the basis that it's auto indexing, not semi automatic)

 

[Miami Airgunner]

So is the huben a semi auto? By statement above it is not. In fact, are there ANY air guns that fit the "next round into the chamber" scenario?

The Blitz and the AEA do for sure, and there are many more, I'm just too lazy to list 'em.

 

[moodyblues]

Big,
Seems right to me lol. Maybe this thread will set the definition of semi auto in airguns. Kinda seems like we need it since a lot of the experts are here and there’s a few different trains of thought.

 

[moodyblues]

I was going to ask how the Edguns function but didn’t think this was the place.

Good thread Miami!

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

What is a semi auto airgun ?

well, airguns do not need to eject a spent brass and chamber a new round to work, as long as they re-cock the action and by pulling the trigger they send an other round I think it's a semi,
some shoot from an open bolt ( like Evanix ) but the previous shot cocked the hammer

 

[BigTinBoat]

What is a semi auto airgun ?

well, airguns do not need to eject a spent brass and chamber a new round to work, as long as they re-cock the action and by pulling the trigger they send an other round I think it's a semi,
some shoot from an open bolt ( like Evanix ) but the previous shot cocked the hammer

So with the Evanix all you do is pull the trigger, a shot fires, you pull the trigger and another shot fires, etc.
With the Crosman 1077 you pull the trigger and a shot fires, you pull the trigger and another shot fires, etc.

While the parts inside the gun do different things (trigger cocking hammer vs excess air cocking hammer), since the user is doing the EXACT SAME THING, to get the EXACT SAME RESULT what makes one semi-auto and the other NOT semi-auto.................in your opinion?

 

[Miami Airgunner]

So with the Evanix all you do is pull the trigger, a shot fires, you pull the trigger and another shot fires, etc.
With the Crosman 1077 you pull the trigger and a shot fires, you pull the trigger and another shot fires, etc.

While the parts inside the gun do different things (trigger cocking hammer vs excess air cocking hammer), since the user is doing the EXACT SAME THING, to get the EXACT SAME RESULT what makes one semi-auto and the other NOT semi-auto.................in your opinion?

From my perspective here, I feel like it is required that the trigger is only releasing the hammer, or whatever mechanism, and not moving the action in order to advance/load the gun.

 

[baranjhn]

The Crosman 600 was a magazine fed, semi auto CO2 pistol. They came out in the 60's.

Here is an article from Tom Gaylord

Crosman 600 air pistol: Part 1 | Blog | Pyramyd AIR

by Tom Gaylord Writing as B.B. Pelletier Crosman 600 CO2 pellet pistol. A history of airguns This report covers: Update on the Brice scope mount base for the Daisy Red Ryder A true semiautomatic .22 caliber Power and gas use Ultimate ergonomics Gas caps Sights Safety Modification This pistol...

www.pyramydair.com

 

[Miami Airgunner]

The Crosman 600 was a magazine fed, semi auto CO2 pistol. They came out in the 60's.

Here is an article from Tom Gaylord

Crosman 600 air pistol: Part 1 | Blog | Pyramyd AIR

by Tom Gaylord Writing as B.B. Pelletier Crosman 600 CO2 pellet pistol. A history of airguns This report covers: Update on the Brice scope mount base for the Daisy Red Ryder A true semiautomatic .22 caliber Power and gas use Ultimate ergonomics Gas caps Sights Safety Modification This pistol...

www.pyramydair.com

That would be why I specifically mentioned it in the first post of this thread. ;-)

The answer for pistol is easy! Rifle? It seems that it's not nearly as straight forward.

I do think it's really interesting that the pistol was first.

 

[Pale_Rider]

I love discussing semi auto airguns as I’m fascinated by the different mechanisms engineers have devised to achieve semi auto function in an airgun. However, this thread is more a frivolous argument of semantics.

It’s clear as day what semi auto airguns fit the description used for PB semi autos. Lets take a look at the AEA terminator compared to a PB semi auto. Both capture the gas from behind the projectile. Both use the captured gas to cock the hammer. Both have a spring fed mag that advances the projectile. Both have a bolt that pushes the projectile in the barrel.
The huben is in a league of its own and is not similar to any PB semi auto. It uses air from the reservoir to advance the mag and cock the hammer. I own both of these airguns and prefer the huben system over the AEA because you don’t have to worry about lead particles building up in the system that could cause malfunction.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

So with the Evanix all you do is pull the trigger, a shot fires, you pull the trigger and another shot fires, etc.
With the Crosman 1077 you pull the trigger and a shot fires, you pull the trigger and another shot fires, etc.

While the parts inside the gun do different things (trigger cocking hammer vs excess air cocking hammer), since the user is doing the EXACT SAME THING, to get the EXACT SAME RESULT what makes one semi-auto and the other NOT semi-auto.................in your opinion?

I used to have AR6 Evanix rifles that you could use in double action,....never considered that a semi-auto tho.

Cocking the hammer by pulling the trigger is not a semi, just a double action otherwise every revolver out there would be a semi-auto.

 

[baranjhn]

That would be why I specifically mentioned it in the first post of this thread. ;-)

The answer for pistol is easy! Rifle? It seems that it's not nearly as straight forward.

I do think it's really interesting that the pistol was first.

Ah yes. I got so excited that I knew the answer that I blanked that you said besides that one.

 

[badger5th]

I love discussing semi auto airguns as I’m fascinated by the different mechanisms engineers have devised to achieve semi auto function in an airgun. However, this thread is more a frivolous argument of semantics.

I don't think it's frivolous. Proposing analogies to PB semi-autos is the most direct comparison most of us understand since most of us are PB shooters too.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Aaaand that’s the exact analogy I made lol. It’s frivolous to argue that a double action is technically a semi auto. For over a hundred years Gun makers have established what is a semi auto and what’s a double action.