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What Power You Using For Eurasian Collard Doves ?

I just discovered Eurasian Collard Doves are an unprotected bird in California, and I do see lots of them when I'm out, and I do mean lots and lots of them .

I'm going to use my 22 Talon converted to Co2 gun. Has a bit over 12fpe at the muzzle and over 8fpe at 35 yards ----- So I think I'm in the zone ----- If I need more poop I can always use something else. Got my Upland Game tag today so I'm set ;- )

Have you guys been going after them ?



wll
 
Daystate Safari .25 cal on High power, AVS 34g .2513 dish slug. I use this on collard doves and pigeons at the dairy for pest control ... More DRT’s then other slug I’ve tried.10 yards into ballistic gel.
E8678AEF-F9D2-4E8D-841C-316A7CA40C9D.1610483231.jpeg

 
8fpe is plenty with proper placement but I think in practice you are likely to become frustrated with the number of fly-aways. A few key things at play here:

1. Accurate ranging (holdover/holdunder) is critical when starting at a very modest muzzle velocity of ~620fps. Very loopy trajectory.
2. CO2 is sensitive to temperature swings, making the holdover/holdunder subject to even greater error. I’ve read some of your posts so I know you’re well aware of that, so I will assume you’ve done everything within reason to mitigate its impact. But the reality is, it will always be there to a greater extent than if it were HPA.
3. This last one involves a bit of conjecture but the terminal velocity for your 35yd example is going to be somewhere in the vicinity of 500fps (14.3gr @ 500fps = 8fpe). At low velocity, a pellet is more easily deflected by thick layers of feathers or a bone…if only a little. Depends on the angles. The quarry’s elevation relative to you, the angle it presents to you (frontal, broadside, quartering), and the location of the POI. All of them will influence the extent to which the pellet’s path through the quarry is affected, and sometimes the difference between a clean kill and a flyaway is the 1/8” it missed the vitals. A faster moving pellet would be affected less.

I really don’t mean for this to come across negatively, I just hope it gives some perspective and presents some factors for further consideration. 

For example, a while back I posted a scope cam clip here showing a squirrel at 30yds with a .177 wadcutter at ~4.6fpe terminal energy. It was an instant lights out but it was done in pretty much ideal conditions…known distance, good support, no wind, etc. Definitely not a good choice were any of those factors altered.
 
Thank you guys for all your info, I will be doing the best I can to get frontal chest shots or head shots in the 30-35 yard vicinity. I will be doing my best to keep the Co2 in the 70's so the speed stays in the 620-630fps area with CPHP's. I may wrap a couple of disposable hand warmers around the bottle to see how that does. If this doesn't work than another gun is in order as I want clean kills, as we all do. I might bring my Freedom out along with me, not sure.

This weekend will be for testing and I hope a few land. The gun is very accurate I just hope it is not windy.



wll
 
It is all about shot placement-beware of a side presentation chest shot. It seems the bony bend of the wing is some kind of vortex that draws the pellet. A hit at the bend of the wing will knock down the bird but it will revive and take off on foot, NOT what you want to have happen! My Marauder is low tuned to around 22 ft. lbs. it's effective out to 50 yards or so in good conditions. A while back someone posted a cutaway view of a pigeon showing the vital areas-I'll see if I can find it.
Here ya go-
8e47a332f18dfcc586dedc3be16576c6.1610505433.jpg





 
8fpe is plenty with proper placement but I think in practice you are likely to become frustrated with the number of fly-aways. A few key things at play here:

1. Accurate ranging (holdover/holdunder) is critical when starting at a very modest muzzle velocity of ~620fps. Very loopy trajectory.
2. CO2 is sensitive to temperature swings, making the holdover/holdunder subject to even greater error. I’ve read some of your posts so I know you’re well aware of that, so I will assume you’ve done everything within reason to mitigate its impact. But the reality is, it will always be there to a greater extent than if it were HPA.
3. This last one involves a bit of conjecture but the terminal velocity for your 35yd example is going to be somewhere in the vicinity of 500fps (14.3gr @ 500fps = 8fpe). At low velocity, a pellet is more easily deflected by thick layers of feathers or a bone…if only a little. Depends on the angles. The quarry’s elevation relative to you, the angle it presents to you (frontal, broadside, quartering), and the location of the POI. All of them will influence the extent to which the pellet’s path through the quarry is affected, and sometimes the difference between a clean kill and a flyaway is the 1/8” it missed the vitals. A faster moving pellet would be affected less.

I really don’t mean for this to come across negatively, I just hope it gives some perspective and presents some factors for further consideration. 

For example, a while back I posted a scope cam clip here showing a squirrel at 30yds with a .177 wadcutter at ~4.6fpe terminal energy. It was an instant lights out but it was done in pretty much ideal conditions…known distance, good support, no wind, etc. Definitely not a good choice were any of those factors altered.


@nervioustrig,



I will take your expertise into my thought process as i surely don't want to cause any needless suffering. This gun is very accurate but i do have things to deal with ... most importantly is the fact Co2 is temp sensitive and I very, very quickly found out with the help of folks of the forums and my own testing. I got to keep the tank in the 72+ area (at least) as it is in the 30's outside !! I will put a couple of hand warmers around the tank to keep the temp up and as I always do keep the tank in my lap, my arms and hands around the tank.

At this point I think I will use CPHP's but I will test out JSB 18.13gr Jumbo Heavies with this new barrel as I was getting 575+fps with my other 18" barreled Talon ... this barrel SEEMS a little faster. The JSB's hold their velocity MUCH better and if my initial velocity is in the 585+ fps mark, I very well may use them.



wll
 
That sounds like a good plan. The JSB will have less wind drift by a pretty substantial margin, and probably also a meaningful accuracy advantage by 25+ yards.

Do you know if it likes the 15.9gr domes? If so, I think they would represent a slightly better blend of trajectory vs BC. Meaning its BC is still vastly better than a CPHP but lighter than the JSB 18.1gr so it doesn’t give up as much velocity.
 
That sounds like a good plan. The JSB will have less wind drift by a pretty substantial margin, and probably also a meaningful accuracy advantage by 25+ yards.

Do you know if it likes the 15.9gr domes? If so, I think they would represent a slightly better blend of trajectory vs BC. Meaning its BC is still vastly better than a CPHP but lighter than the JSB 18.1gr so it doesn’t give up as much velocity.


I do have those in stock so I might give that a shot also ;- )



wll
 
No Matter where you go the Eurasian Collared Dove is an invasive species. They were native to South America and some pet shops sold them to pet shops in the US. After a typhoon or tornado hit the pet shop, near Florida somewhere, the place was destroyed but the birds go out. Now they are everywhere. They drive off morning doves a game bird in Washington State. The song bird population also takes a hit from them. In the Washington State game rule pamphlet they show a picture of one and basically say kill them all... not literally but pretty close.
 
I think 8 FPE is plenty as well, and if you can hit them in the back, they seem just to fold up and drop, in my experience.


think that applies to most smaller birds I think. With my 3.5 FPE or 450fps .177 pellet I can drop all pest birds in my yard up to pigeons if I get a back shot, they literally just fall forward and not move an inch like you mentioned. In the front if my shot is a little low then pigeons or starlings sometimes would fly off and die somewhere else. 
 
Hello --

I been taking many Columbiformes with my PP750 (20 in one day), and previously with a Talon P. The PP750 shoots JSB 15.89s in Diabolo and Hades at about 16FPE. I stick with crop shots, as that will mess them up dead. I have seen a couple profile shots bounce and skid right off the wing primaries with terminal energies of 13-14FPE. These imported doves carry avian pox viridae to which our native birds are naive. The virus eats away at keratinous tissue, so a native bird without toes or a beak is not so uncommon.

Mark

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