What am I missing here? If a topic can be discussed what does it matter which category It's in. I don't understand, Michael.
- The AGN App is ready! Search "Airgun Nation" in your App store. To compliment this new tech we've assigned the "Threads" Feed & "Dark" Mode. To revert back click HERE.
What now, we lost Neil?
- Thread starter ddransoml
- Start date
- Status
Yeah it sort of seems if you have an opinion other than FX rules them all your subject to the AGN police.
I actually think this could be one of the best Airgun sites to go to but with a name like Air Gun Nation you gotta have a tolerance to all opinions and or complaints about all brands as long as it doesn't get ugly with cursing or name calling.
Now if this was FX nation I could understand less tolerance to Fx frustrations or complaints but it's not Fx nation it's AIR GUN NATION which implies a welcome to all air Gunners not matter what brand you like..I really hope I don't get banned or privileges taken away for my opinion but if so,so be it.
I think Neil was just expressing a frustration over Fx barrel threading.
Now there could have been other issues between the mods and Neil in messages we don't know about.im not passing judgement on anything or anyone .
Just an opinion.
I actually think this could be one of the best Airgun sites to go to but with a name like Air Gun Nation you gotta have a tolerance to all opinions and or complaints about all brands as long as it doesn't get ugly with cursing or name calling.
Now if this was FX nation I could understand less tolerance to Fx frustrations or complaints but it's not Fx nation it's AIR GUN NATION which implies a welcome to all air Gunners not matter what brand you like..I really hope I don't get banned or privileges taken away for my opinion but if so,so be it.
I think Neil was just expressing a frustration over Fx barrel threading.
Now there could have been other issues between the mods and Neil in messages we don't know about.im not passing judgement on anything or anyone .
Just an opinion.
Upvote 0
It's not right. I've had some of my posts disappear as well that were not "out of line" but truthful. Just because you hurt a sponsors feelings by speaking the truth, no matter how direct or tact free the statement is, it should not get deleted. This censorship should not happen. Keep the forum clean, yes but allow open discussions of the products we use.
Neil is a strong minded individual and always seemed to let you know what was on his mind. He is straightforward. There is nothing wrong with that. I respect that position. Also, he is as much a consumer as the rest of us. A consumer that happens to make LDC's for this community providing a rare needed service for us.
Neil is a strong minded individual and always seemed to let you know what was on his mind. He is straightforward. There is nothing wrong with that. I respect that position. Also, he is as much a consumer as the rest of us. A consumer that happens to make LDC's for this community providing a rare needed service for us.
Upvote 0
I agree with Neil, 1000%. Seems like this industry is very sensitive to people’s opinion and advice, quite a lot of BS (can I even say that?) politics involved. There is nothing wrong with the truth coming out, that’s what the forum was for, at least that’s what I had thought. There are a few people who don’t agree with this censorship and I see it as favortisim and bias towards a particular brand. You say something that is a fact and it get deleted or locked up and never to be spoken of again. What kind of BS is that? If it’s the truth why can’t it be stated. It’s not defamation if it’s true! Totally unjustified how we are being censored.
Neil, if you are going to pull your sponsor, then will they allow you to continue with the forum as just a member? If so, screw the sponsor, you don’t need it, you are well known in the community and people will still go to you even without the sponsor. I stand by you 1000% on this.
P.S. Good luck on your surgery.
Neil, if you are going to pull your sponsor, then will they allow you to continue with the forum as just a member? If so, screw the sponsor, you don’t need it, you are well known in the community and people will still go to you even without the sponsor. I stand by you 1000% on this.
P.S. Good luck on your surgery.
Upvote 0
Ask yourself this. If fx changed the threads on the impact......they did so for a reason. Now....is it fx's fault they didnt email Neil about this change?
It probably went down like this. Someone needed a ldc made for an impact. Neil might have said sure.....done lots of em....I got measurements already. Guy gets ldc and it doesnt fit.
Neil gets a little aggrevated about the change and voices his opinion.
Im sure Neil is a great guy but Im kinda seeing both sides of the coin here. Fx and Neil are not in business together. Any changes made to the airgun is fx's business.
Now.......looking at it from Micheals perspective. Having one sponsor saying something bad about another. Where do you draw the line? What if Daystate started complaining about FX.....or FX complaining about Daystate on here? Im sure Micheal did not enjoy doing this to a well respected member. However, had I been in his shoes I would have had no other choice.
I enjoy Neil's contribution to the forum and community. Nobody is perfect. I hope he sleeps on it and cools down and continues to be around for all of us.
It probably went down like this. Someone needed a ldc made for an impact. Neil might have said sure.....done lots of em....I got measurements already. Guy gets ldc and it doesnt fit.
Neil gets a little aggrevated about the change and voices his opinion.
Im sure Neil is a great guy but Im kinda seeing both sides of the coin here. Fx and Neil are not in business together. Any changes made to the airgun is fx's business.
Now.......looking at it from Micheals perspective. Having one sponsor saying something bad about another. Where do you draw the line? What if Daystate started complaining about FX.....or FX complaining about Daystate on here? Im sure Micheal did not enjoy doing this to a well respected member. However, had I been in his shoes I would have had no other choice.
I enjoy Neil's contribution to the forum and community. Nobody is perfect. I hope he sleeps on it and cools down and continues to be around for all of us.
Upvote 0
I understand and have already taken that into consideration. With that said, can't we decide if the complaint is warranted or not?
Many who are not sponsors have had posts deleted.
Upvote 0
Well its simple don't expect a sponsor to answer a question you ask in the regular threads? Seems a little strange to me that someone selling something and paying for the right to advertise here would be blocked with their normal forum name? Unless they were saying something wrong(I guess lying would fit) about a direct competitor. Oh well
Upvote 0
Neil made a technically correct post and shared his thoughts. The forum speculated.
A few simple economic items: A forum like this costs money to operate. Someone pays for that. A forum owner either gets financial help from "sponsors" to pay for that, or a forum owner gets other goods and services that compensates them for keeping the forum running. And sponsor X might be worth 1,000 and sponsor Y might be worth 10,000. Maybe a forum owner makes a bit extra that goes into their pocket. Maybe they lose money overall, but keep doing it because they like the hobby or like being a forum owner. I have no idea what the situation is on this forum. And I'm not asking about it here.
This fourm is paid for by sponsors who hope that investment will bring a return in more of their products sold. If a sponsor decides that isn't going to happen, they might pull their dollars and that hits the forum owners pocket. So "freedom of speech" doesn't really apply as we posters aren't paying for this forum. We aren't all standing at a gun club slinging opinions, and the last time i checked, most of those gun clubs around me have membership fees, so you were in fact paying to provide your opinion and get the open opinion of others.
IF you really want to have an say-what-i-want-about-manufacturer-X forum, there would need to be a membership fee (ever heard of the National Rifle Association?) where your dollars and services to the forum owner would need to meet or exceed the projected dollars and services from the sponsors.
I've also made technically correct posts and shared my thoughts (and was warned to stop). I would pay a fee to have uncensored posting of product information. Are you folks ready for that, or is the free access to post for free worth the imposed censorship that keeps the sponsors paying?
A few simple economic items: A forum like this costs money to operate. Someone pays for that. A forum owner either gets financial help from "sponsors" to pay for that, or a forum owner gets other goods and services that compensates them for keeping the forum running. And sponsor X might be worth 1,000 and sponsor Y might be worth 10,000. Maybe a forum owner makes a bit extra that goes into their pocket. Maybe they lose money overall, but keep doing it because they like the hobby or like being a forum owner. I have no idea what the situation is on this forum. And I'm not asking about it here.
This fourm is paid for by sponsors who hope that investment will bring a return in more of their products sold. If a sponsor decides that isn't going to happen, they might pull their dollars and that hits the forum owners pocket. So "freedom of speech" doesn't really apply as we posters aren't paying for this forum. We aren't all standing at a gun club slinging opinions, and the last time i checked, most of those gun clubs around me have membership fees, so you were in fact paying to provide your opinion and get the open opinion of others.
IF you really want to have an say-what-i-want-about-manufacturer-X forum, there would need to be a membership fee (ever heard of the National Rifle Association?) where your dollars and services to the forum owner would need to meet or exceed the projected dollars and services from the sponsors.
I've also made technically correct posts and shared my thoughts (and was warned to stop). I would pay a fee to have uncensored posting of product information. Are you folks ready for that, or is the free access to post for free worth the imposed censorship that keeps the sponsors paying?
Upvote 0
Guys this is really simple. The forum has been separated into two main sections. This is to protect the end-user from being influenced by people from within the industry. And to help encourage the industry people to participate in their own section.
Since Neil is a sponsor/manufacturer/dealer his post regarding FX changing their specs should have gone within the Manufacturers Direct forum. The topic was perfectly acceptable (less the insults) and FX may have even felt compelled to respond (within the proper forum). I'm not trying to "hide" any changes that FX may have made. The Impact is one of the most complex airguns ever created, and we all know that numerous changes have been made to make that model better. But I will not allow our sponsors to attack or insult each other.
I don't have anything bad to say about Neil. Perhaps someday he will understand what we are trying to accomplish with the "Inside the Industry" section. Neil has an open invite to return to the forum but he has to accept that he is a sponsor/manufacturer/dealer and that his contributions belongs in the appropriate sections.
I have known Neil for many years. We have supported his work and helped him resolve numerous controversial situations. I have jokingly called him "the most stubborn Brit I have ever known"... and he whole-heartedly agreed.
Neil is a fine machinist and he will be missed.
*If you need to contact Neil for an after market LDC/shroud then he can be reached at http://petersoncorner.com/clague/default.htm
Since Neil is a sponsor/manufacturer/dealer his post regarding FX changing their specs should have gone within the Manufacturers Direct forum. The topic was perfectly acceptable (less the insults) and FX may have even felt compelled to respond (within the proper forum). I'm not trying to "hide" any changes that FX may have made. The Impact is one of the most complex airguns ever created, and we all know that numerous changes have been made to make that model better. But I will not allow our sponsors to attack or insult each other.
I don't have anything bad to say about Neil. Perhaps someday he will understand what we are trying to accomplish with the "Inside the Industry" section. Neil has an open invite to return to the forum but he has to accept that he is a sponsor/manufacturer/dealer and that his contributions belongs in the appropriate sections.
I have known Neil for many years. We have supported his work and helped him resolve numerous controversial situations. I have jokingly called him "the most stubborn Brit I have ever known"... and he whole-heartedly agreed.
Neil is a fine machinist and he will be missed.
*If you need to contact Neil for an after market LDC/shroud then he can be reached at http://petersoncorner.com/clague/default.htm
Upvote 0
I do not want to lose Niel he is a great asset to this forum or any he would choose to belong to..JMHO
Upvote 0
Thanks for all that you did for the forum Neil!! I didn't always see eye to eye, but you are a very generous and talented individual!! God bless you Sir!!
Upvote 0
That's all I ask for, Michael, some clarity (thanks).
I look forward to much future business with Neil and as a loyalist to his brand I felt compelled to ask an in-depth "why." I mean, the guy is the most versatile machinist in the niche of his craft...MOST others wouldn't touch the configurations many of us needed for our particular platforms...losing his voice (self directed) is big on this forum IMO.
Your reasons don't resonate with malice ...a man has the right run his forum according to rules befitting his abilities to uphold...cool. Coupled with a re-invite and posting his contact info calls for an ACCURACY hit...
.
I look forward to much future business with Neil and as a loyalist to his brand I felt compelled to ask an in-depth "why." I mean, the guy is the most versatile machinist in the niche of his craft...MOST others wouldn't touch the configurations many of us needed for our particular platforms...losing his voice (self directed) is big on this forum IMO.
Your reasons don't resonate with malice ...a man has the right run his forum according to rules befitting his abilities to uphold...cool. Coupled with a re-invite and posting his contact info calls for an ACCURACY hit...
.Upvote 0
"Dodge 3500, Very well put,"Yeah it sort of seems if you have an opinion other than FX rules them all your subject to the AGN police.
I actually think this could be one of the best Airgun sites to go to but with a name like Air Gun Nation you gotta have a tolerance to all opinions and or complaints about all brands as long as it doesn't get ugly with cursing or name calling.
Now if this was FX nation I could understand less tolerance to Fx frustrations or complaints but it's not Fx nation it's AIR GUN NATION which implies a welcome to all air Gunners not matter what brand you like..I really hope I don't get banned or privileges taken away for my opinion but if so,so be it.
I think Neil was just expressing a frustration over Fx barrel threading.
Now there could have been other issues between the mods and Neil in messages we don't know about.im not passing judgement on anything or anyone .
Just an opinion.
WOW , WHERE DID THE REST OF MY POST GO/
MIKE
Upvote 0
I read Neils post and didn't see anything bad with it. Just his opinion on changing parts midstream. Instead of responding to the issue at hand it seems complaining was the option taken. The big dog got the little guy punished? I will not be purchasing anything FX. Too bad, I really wanted that wildcat but will go with someone else now.
Upvote 0
Michael, I have to take you by your word that Neil was asked to go because he is "industry" and according to forum rules "industry" cannot take part in general airgunner conversations. Why wasn't this done earlier? I will take your word that the timing of your decision was not based on his FX barrel-thread related criticism. Otherwise it would be very troubling
I found Neil's contributions extremely valuable to this forum. In the future I will re-direct my relevant questions that fall in Neil's area of expertise in the "Manufacturers Direct" section and I hope Neil will find the time to chime in there and will continue to share his expertise with the AGN community.
I found Neil's contributions extremely valuable to this forum. In the future I will re-direct my relevant questions that fall in Neil's area of expertise in the "Manufacturers Direct" section and I hope Neil will find the time to chime in there and will continue to share his expertise with the AGN community.
Upvote 0
The problem at least to me is . When I came to AGN I had a preconceived notion that it was 100% Pro FX and AOA no matter WHAT !!! That seems to be the opinion about this forum to the other AirGun forums .
I'm no longer interested in PCP guns but this is the kind of thing that only furthers that perception. I like several of the forums all for different reasons But This is the kind of thing that just makes us all as a group seem foolish . Neil is a one man operation that does this no doubt for profit but also he helps a lot of folks .
Not my forum , but there gotta be a better way
I'm no longer interested in PCP guns but this is the kind of thing that only furthers that perception. I like several of the forums all for different reasons But This is the kind of thing that just makes us all as a group seem foolish . Neil is a one man operation that does this no doubt for profit but also he helps a lot of folks .
Not my forum , but there gotta be a better way
Upvote 0
I just heard from Neil . He can no longer reply to PM or post on the forum . There is a link above to his contact info , please bookmark it so you can stay in touch with him . And locate him when you need LDC work done ..Nobody's Better
Upvote 0
My company has 42 products in various aftermarket catergories. I sell them under various trade names, or sometimes as "no names" directly through ebay using many different user id's while I figure out if the numbers are going to work out. I cannot speak about them on this forum even though a few of them are in the airgun domain. It stinks......but michael and I had a discussion the very first week of my membership here that made things clear to me that I was completely ignorant to and I have tried very hard to keep my personal thoughts to myself if it was going to go against this forums policy.
Since that time I have been reading almost all of the posts here, but reply very little because of my position in the industry.
I'm actually banned from purchasing ad space here because a few of my products directly compete with sponsors of this site.
I am a guest here...and as a guest I respect my hosts wishes.
I am probably going to piss some of you guys off right now but this needs to be said......so I will say it.
As an aftermarket supplier/manufacturer I deal with problems that cost me a poop ton of money that I can never get back. (Lots of 0's, not $50)
I don't complain about it because it's an inherent risk of the business model. What follows is a very simple example.
Company x makes item x a certain way for a period of time, I eventually get around to producing a supplemental aftermarket product for company x's product x once it's been an established product and sufficient numbers of them have been sold.
At some point, company x decides to change something about product x. Now my product no longer works with product x.
Do I make a fuss about company x changing product x......no.
Why?......glad you asked.......I'll tell you.
Because I rely on company x and companies like them to create these products so that I can create my products and make money off of their backs......directly.
Do you really think it's fair for me to call out company x and say "hey what the fug company x, I just produced 10,000 parts for product x and now you go and change it..........you fugged me."
No, I don't. I take my beatings when they come, and I reap the rewards when it all goes right.
Now, all I can say about the situation currently in discussion is that you don't bite the fugging hand that feeds you. (Period)
Speaking to friends and industry people behind closed doors is one thing, but throwing a company under the bus in a public arena, when the company is helping you pay your bills in one way or another is.......well, you get the picture.
I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone, but this is reality.
Since that time I have been reading almost all of the posts here, but reply very little because of my position in the industry.
I'm actually banned from purchasing ad space here because a few of my products directly compete with sponsors of this site.
I am a guest here...and as a guest I respect my hosts wishes.
I am probably going to piss some of you guys off right now but this needs to be said......so I will say it.
As an aftermarket supplier/manufacturer I deal with problems that cost me a poop ton of money that I can never get back. (Lots of 0's, not $50)
I don't complain about it because it's an inherent risk of the business model. What follows is a very simple example.
Company x makes item x a certain way for a period of time, I eventually get around to producing a supplemental aftermarket product for company x's product x once it's been an established product and sufficient numbers of them have been sold.
At some point, company x decides to change something about product x. Now my product no longer works with product x.
Do I make a fuss about company x changing product x......no.
Why?......glad you asked.......I'll tell you.
Because I rely on company x and companies like them to create these products so that I can create my products and make money off of their backs......directly.
Do you really think it's fair for me to call out company x and say "hey what the fug company x, I just produced 10,000 parts for product x and now you go and change it..........you fugged me."
No, I don't. I take my beatings when they come, and I reap the rewards when it all goes right.
Now, all I can say about the situation currently in discussion is that you don't bite the fugging hand that feeds you. (Period)
Speaking to friends and industry people behind closed doors is one thing, but throwing a company under the bus in a public arena, when the company is helping you pay your bills in one way or another is.......well, you get the picture.
I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone, but this is reality.
Upvote 0
- Status