• Please consider adding your "Event" to the Calendar located on our Home page!

What is the reason 100y air rifle is so popular?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
This thread has morphed a little since it started and this completely a guess, but I think the popularity of 100yd shooting is directly proportional to all the long range shooting videos posted on line. Go to You Tube, Airgun101 or any of the other video channels and you'll see long range pesting videos, long range target shooting and videos of long range slug shooting. They're amusing to watch! There are others of course, but the sponsored, big name shooters who are seen the most and have a huge influence are shooting long distance most of the time. We're being bombarded with videos of guys shooting long distance, so naturally that's what newcomers are going to want to do. Although the percentage of new shooters that actually go to competitions is teeny tiny, I'm thinking those that do go and compete want to test their skills against what they've seen people do on line, so they sign up for 100yd BR rather than the shorter distances.. Just my guess.

STOTI
 
Upvote 0
Steve...I enjoy FT a lot because there are enough big matches every year to make me feel like my time spent practicing is worth it. Lots of nice people, too. Non pandemic years there is a GP match somewhere a couple times a month in the summer. I don’t live near any FT clubs or ranges...so traveling is a must. That part is kind of fun, too. I like the part that the courses are not beyond the repeatable capabilities of many rifles.

I agree with the points you made about the 100y.



 
Upvote 0
Mike Nisch, Very good thread and lots of comments and thoughts and certainly no hostility at least thus far. I think the ERB events have created a lot of excitement in the Airgun world. Whether they continue to grow remains to be seen. I do know that Field Target has grown very little since its inception back in the late 80's. When I started shooting indoor bench rest at Holbrook, Ma about 8 to 10 years ago the attendance numbers may of been a little better back then but not by much. There has been a lot of discussion on the old yellow over the years about growing the game. When I was in my early thirties (1980)I was just getting into Bowhunter competitions when the dawn of 3-D Ethafoam targets took off. With in 3 to 5 years our attendance exploded locally to over a 100 shooters every Saturday or Sunday some where in the state of Maine. At state events we would get 200+. At a New England Bowhunter Championship we would get close to a thousand shooters. Nationals got several thousand shooters and before I got out of Archery in 1995 I attended most of them. From what I understand the game has settled down some but I don't keep up with it anymore so I can't really say what they are getting for attendance now but I do know that back when it was going strong the whole family was involved in it. Was not uncommon to see 3 to 5 shooters show up as a family. Father and Son's were plentiful as well as mother's and daughters. Everytime I would run into James Brinkley with his children it always reminded me of my old archery days. It was really a fun way to bond with family and friends. Just a footnote: I rarely remembered having to hold off much on a full size 3-D Buck at 50-55 yards with a 5 or 6" kill zone. Looking back I actually can't recall the wind blowing that much back then. I guess a 450 - 540 grain aluminum arrow carries a little better in the wind even traveling at 250 fps.






 
Upvote 0
I would tend to agree w Centercut about the excitement factor. The big events ARE a good buzz. I wasn't interested in long range till somewhat recently and saw what some equipment can do. The challenge IS at longer ranges.

On 25M... it seems that when you first came to one of our FT matches, you had become disenchanted with the politics and personalities in that sport. That's what's never appealed to ME about bullseye type matches. The very first one I attended was extremely rigid and ritualized and basicly unfriendly. I've not seen anything to change that perception over the years. Hard to make a sport grow like that. FT on the other hand, is full of very friendly and helpful people and each course can be completely different. I really feel that AAFTA's over regulation of it isn't helping and perhaps the perception of the huge, expensive scopes being necessary. Even Hunter class has been perverted.

Enter... American FT. It's honestly EXCITING. The ticking clock, long shots(ample kz's), and no real special equipment required. .. just knowing your rifle and wind. There's a reason it's the favorite event at EBR.

Anyway ... looks like I got off track but really feel that the CHALLENGE of putting together a series of good shots is what people are enjoying. I agree on the statistical aspect though.

Good thread with a lot of good thoughts.

Bob
 
Upvote 0
Bob, I can see the appeal in the American FT for some. I’m not a hunter, so to become familiar with a rifle and the wind at those longer distances would require some practice for me to be competitive, I believe. I could not not likely bring myself to practice for one event of 20 shots per year.


I think that much of my difficulty in seeing the appeal of certain things is maybe my personality getting in the way. I have never competed in anything simply for the fun. For me, the fun is all the work I put into something in the quest to excel at that particular activity...then the satisfaction of all that work paying off in performance at a match or whatever. That’s fun to me. I think I am probably at the extreme end of this particular category of personalities. I tend to think that the most successful guys in 25m probably share much of this personality. I’m certain that the long time 25m shooters would be quickly frustrated if they were suddenly required to only shoot rifles that could hold the 8 ring. All the work that they put into learning the intricacy of the wind at 25m would be largely rendered useless because the tool they are now required to use is incapable of keeping up with their skill. Luck would rule the day. If they chose to continue shooting such an event...the top guys would still be the top guys, but the order of finish would be up to luck.

It may also be that when too many guys with my personality type get together in one place...the overall demeanor of the event becomes too tense feeling...although FT is full of incredibly competitive guys and the mood is mostly quite light. I’m friends with all the guys I hope to beat every match....regardless of their brand of equipment. That may be another interesting study of difference.


I think my question has mostly been answered...and it unfortunately seems that to bring universal popularity to a precision game like 25m would require the luck factor to be raised significantly....which would change the entire game to something unrecognizable to a current 25m shooter. That’s disappointing, but it’s likely that the appeal of precision shooting is just not going to be for the mass majority...especially since it’s costly to be truly competitive. Even elements like large cash prizes would not likely change that.



Robert, I think you have done a fine job of creating an event that has great appeal to so many.


Mike
 
Upvote 0
That's definitely an interesting and unconventional feature...to give a relative newcomer a fighting chance at placing. It's a feature that is typically absent in high level competition. No doubt I can see where that may entice some of the guys who reckon themselves a marksman but who don't have the hundreds of hours of prep and the specialized custom equipment that is generally required to land anywhere except dead last in a highly competitive field. Granted, while I don't have a full appreciation for the preparations involved and the degree of competition, I do have a healthy skepticism that such a person has much more than a cosmic opportunity to actually win ("a bit of luck and the ability to _win_ against the script"). However I can see the appeal of placing ahead of at least some of the guys with super $$$$ rigs and FX or Daystate or RAW plastered all over their clothes and equipment. One could definitely make a credible argument that’s a win, even it’s not the win.

I have to assume it doesn't alienate the hyper competitive professionals, that they can sustain an occasional reality check without getting too butthurt. I'm sure running off the regulars is not a desirable tradeoff. 
 
Upvote 0
Well, not so fast there... My very first big tournament was EBR 2018, and I shot with a five year old .30 Bobcat Mk2 and a Hawke Sidewinder scope (total value under $1,500). I made the finals, but didn't do so well. I also made the finals that year in Speed Silo - and again, didn't do so well... Dakota Enox finished 1st Sportsman and 2nd OVERALL that year with a bone stock .30 Crown and an inexpensive scope.

Then this past year, one year later, same gun, and an Athlon scope I bought used for $400. And I won - yes, Sportsman Class, but in Pro I would have placed 5th out of 25 Pro finalists. Plus I also won Sportsman Speed Silo with a time that was within one second of the Pro winning time from the previous year. So I think Robert is right, you CAN compete at 100 yards with the guys that have $3,000 Impacts and $4,000 Nightforce, Khales, March, or S&B scopes. You'll never know until you Step into the Arena.

And here's the part that may seem a bit stuck up (but really isn't). I don't think I was lucky, and in fact thought my score should have been at least 7 or 8 points higher. That 217 was the worst score I think I possibly could have shot under the conditions (the conditions at the finals EBR 2019 were easy). In practice two weeks prior to EBR 2019 I shot five scores in a row between 221 and 228. OK, yes, I didn't just "show up". I practiced all Summer, every weekend for a couple of hours, and made sure I had total confidence in my gun. But that's something anyone can do if they want to compete. Just give Maximum Effort in all that you do! 

I think this is why 100Y BR is so popular. If I'd showed up to the 25M Nationals with my .22 Streamline and 6-24x Bushnell Engage scope, I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have finished in the top 5... probably closer to dead last.
 
Upvote 0
CC, I don't think we disagree. However a $700 rig has become a $1500 rig and you rightly acknowledge you didn't just show up. You earned it, no doubt. Much respect to you for putting in the effort, and I am glad it was met with reward. My perspective is simply that to whatever extent this "outsider's chance" encourages greater participation, it would have to rely on a healthy dose of self-delusion for one to think he can simply walk up to the bench and actually win without having invested both $$$$ and substantial practice time.
 
Upvote 0
The reality of Benchrest shooting...even at 25m is that it’s mostly irrelevant what sort of scores your shoot at another location. Some locations will be inherently more difficult than others even in apparently similar wind conditions. The only scores that can be compared are the scores that were shot at the same time and same location...and if you happened to be in a similar part of the range.

Im certain that practicing every day for 100y shooting is helpful in getting a higher score...but it will not help you significantly once you reach a certain level because you are now at the limit of your equipment.


I had a guy tell me once that he knew someone growing up that could probably outshoot anyone at a FT match with a red Ryder BB gun...they guy was just that good. He was dead serious. I didn’t spend any time trying to explain that a rifle that groups on average 5” at 10y cannot shoot better than that in the hands of an expert....unless the shooter had supernatural powers that could predict where the gun might randomly shoot next.


A good 100 yard gun cannot probably shoot better than 1.75” on average for a 25 shot group in great conditions....so hitting a 1/2” ten ring is simply a matter of chance. That being said...the shooter that is most able to position his 1.75” pattern (if his particular gun is capable of that) centered over the 1/2” bull will have a better chance in the long term of scoring a 10 most often. What is also true is that if 2 shooters managed to to exactly place their 1.75” pattern over the center of the target 25 times during a match....one guy could possible shoot all 8s....and another guy all 10s. That’s the part that is contrary to the idea that someone can practice enough to be the champ. Only if luck is on your side. If you shot some 10s with your gun..,you got lucky.


I suspect the mass majority of contestants practice very little. They certainly have a much smaller chance of scoring well if they have not practiced.

The equipment is certainly less important when none of the rifles are capable of shooting 10s reliably in great conditions.

There really does not need to be a bona fide chance of someone winning for them to compete with hopes of winning. Only the idea that they could is probably enough.

Mike, your statement about how you might do at 25m Nationals with your gun pretty much nutshells why you will not likely attend a 25m National....and that is quite understandable. I now suspect that is why a lot of guys won’t attend. I’ve actually been using the same 200$ used Sightron 36x scope since I started shooting BR. I was never going to spend 3000.00 on a rifle, so I built my own....so I do understand how the cost might deter someone. Most of the upper competitive guys in 100y shooting have way more money in scope and rifle than it would cost then to buy a Thomas or other competitive 25m rifle ...so money is clearly not the reason for it being less popular.


Mike 
 
Upvote 0
No offense taken by me. I would agree that shooting at a FT target at 25y for very long would get boring. I never found actual 25 BR boring, because it’s really hard to shoot a 250 most times...as the ten ring is only .080”. Once you have a capable gun...it’s actually a lot of fun to learn the subtleties of the wind, but absolute frustration with a sub par 25m gun. You never really get to understand the wind with a gun that is not capable of hitting the 10 every time. You end up coming up with all sorts of nonsense to explain a miss...and even develop silly habits, bugaboos, and ideas such as holding the gun a certain way because it hit the 10 when you did that before. It’s a lot of fun for me to get to see someone shoot a capable 25m gun for the first time. I can watch the flags and tell them where to aim and when to pull the trigger. My daughter loved it, and learned how to shoot well in the wind very quickly.



Mike 
 
Upvote 0
I'm a pretty simple guy so I'll give my simplistic reason why I enjoy events like EBR and Rmac. It comes down to I enjoy shooting anything, be it firearms or air rifles. I have not been shooting firearms much since I got hooked with the air rifle scene. No noise or hearing protection is a big draw. Be it wftf field target or EBR, I find them both exciting and fun. But the best part is the comradary of the shooters. I have been hard pressed to find anybody that is not willing to help me if I have a question or problem. I've met some great friends at field target matches and now EBR. Anytime you go head to head and put on the clock, it adds a new challenge for me that is a blast. I dont take too many sighters when I shoot 100 yards, usually just to confirm elevation, then look at the flags and mirage, estimate my drift take a few more sighters to confirm my wind estimates for hold and go for it. Throw in a few more sighters if conditions change drastically and repeat. I Just love it, it gets my blood pumping when I see them closing in on the X. 

American Field Target is a blast, I had never shot off sticks and a stool before last year's EBR. I was happy with my shooting and had a blast , can't beat shooting a huge animal at 100 yards and hearing it clank down only to be reset with a 3/8" rope. 

I can't wait til this year's event to see all my friends and catch up(yes and hope to beat one or two of them, or none of them) as long as we all have fun.(placing well counts as fun too) 



See everybody soon,

Dave




 
Upvote 0
Mike, to answer you question on the cost to get into Competitive Archery back in the 1980's depended a lot on what class you were shooting in which was very similar to todays FT classes but the Bowhunter events had more classes then what we have in FT. I would guess we had at least a dozen different classes depending on the equipment you were using. We had Open classes, Unlimited classes, Limited classes, barebow classes, and Traditional classes. Other than barebow and traditional which were usually always shot using your fingers to release the arrow. All the other classes were separated by how the arrow was released.(Finger or release aid) Depending on the attendance of each class the women had their own classes similiar to the men. The we had the Junior. and cub classes. Anyway getting back to the cost ... a decent compound bow back then would run you from anywhere from $250 to $500 to stay competitive. Good arrows were essential and Easton XX75 would run about $30 a dozen depending on what you used for a point or tip and were whether they had plastic vanes or more expensive feathers. Now these XX75's were decent arrows especially in the hunter competitions. The Easton X7's were the best in the aluminum shafts and they would run you about $40 a dozen. In the early 90's when the carbon shafts became popular they exceeded the costs of the X7's. Now these arrow costs I'm speaking about is if you make your own arrows which many of us did in those days. Purchasing them from a Pro shop would add another $10 to the prices I've mentioned. On top of the cost of the bow you had costs for sights ($20 to $75) Good arrow rest ($10 to $50&) Side Quiver for you arrows ( $15 to $50) shooting fingers / finger tabs ($5 to $10) Release Aids ($25 to $100) String silencers, Cable guards, String wax, Stablizers, String peep sights, and arrow pullers. I'm probably forgetting some accessories too . I would say back in the mid 1980's it would cost the average competitive shooter up to $1000 to get setup with good equipment. Not the best but not the worst either. Up until I left archery the most I ever paid for a compound bow was a Hoyt Carbon Plus which cost me $700 around 1992 without any accessories. Times have changed a lot in the archery world since I left. Back in the day the average length of a compound bow was about 42 -44 inches axlel to axle. Today they are much shorter than they use to be. I think compounds with the big wheels and cams are around 30 inches + or minus a inch or two.

I think if you consider what we were making for a salary back in the 80's the entry fees to shoot were about $4 to $5 per adult and $3 for a child 8 to 15 years old for a 30 target course. Now this is local shoot costs to shoot. The bigger events were $25 and up. Usually took 4 to 6 hours to shoot a course and in those days when we missed a target we hunted hard for the arrows. One other detail … the target distances were pretty much identical to those we shoot in field target but we had to guess / estimate the yardages before we shot the target. Misjudge a 50 yard target by 5 yards and you'll be looking for the arrow.

Hope I didn't bore you too much but those attendance numbers I mentioned last night were real. Take care, Bill
 
Upvote 0
What is the reason 100y air rifle is so popular?

  1. It shot from the bench only. No prone, kneeling or standing positions to do.
  2. Big bore calibers. I think people love powerful air guns. Having an event with no power limits.
  3. Lots of chances of getting prize money. Having payoffs to the top 15 places like PAC is very appealing. Separating amateurs and professionals at EBR is a good idea similar to major archery competitions.
    [/LIST=1]

    When I was shooting competitive archery, the biggest shooting event in the world was (and it still is) NFAA Vegas Shoot. My friend who works in the archery industry says that Vegas gets over 3,000 archers per year (pre-pandemic of course). It is shot indoors 20 yards 30 shots per day over 3 days. In the pro class, in order to win you must shoot perfect each day and then win the shoot off. In 2019, the top pro shooter won $53,000.

    2019 Las Vegas Shoot PDF results

    https://www.nfaausa.com/results/



 
Upvote 0
Wow Leo, I attended, which at the time was know as the biggest indoor shoot in the world. This use to be held in the basement of the Tropicanna and was at the same time and location as the National Archery Shot show which was very popular at the time. I was there in 1988, 1989, and 1990 I believe and we had about a 1000 shooters then. This was a world competition and the shooters from the U.S always use to pretty much dominate this competition. The Joad program also shot this event and believe they still do. Last I heard this game was being played at the Sands Hotel but that was 30 years ago. 3,000 is a heck of a increase. Haven't heard the IBO is doing quite as well as they use to in the outdoor game.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu