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What does “hole in hole” mean to you?

Heres my hole in hole group 3 shots then stoped to take a picture. I shot a 5 shot group like that once and posted it here and got a red ball for it LOL this was 60 yards with .25 impact. I can consistantly hit dime sized groups with it and my Boss .30 and 25 bobcat.

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Amen Kdog! 

That is also my definition of one pellet hole or as close as possible! Fan .......friggin.....tastic!! Never did this and I am in awe!

If you or anyone else on this thread come to NC, call me and we’ll shoot together at my local range. We can have a great time and make up stories about “hole in hole” groups. 

Seriously, nice shooting!




Tommyb...Thankyou brother,

The gun is a proven shooter and I haven't been able to repeat this but on that day it did happen and I'll take it. I can get groups that are one hole but not a hole just a tad bigger than the pellet. Just the other day I shot a 25yd bench rest card with this same gun that scored 250 with 21X's. The X is completely taking out the center 2mm bullseye. It was the highest X count at our local indoor Airgun range to date. 





 
Mike, I tell people that my first rule of human communication is "That which is heard is often not that which is said." The primary reason for this is that different people use the same words in their own particular way. Sometimes the difference is great, sometimes it is small. And that is why it's important when discussing group sizes to use a measurement that can only mean one thing. Whether that's CTC or "all touching the 10 ring" or some other absolute measurement. All that other gibberish, while fun at times, is just a way of making ourselves look better. Nothing wrong with wanting to look good, or feel better about yourself. But a quantitative measurement takes all the guesswork out of it. And, in the final analysis, whether or not someone else is being totally honest about their abilities or the gun's capabilities has no bearing whatsoever on how I feel about myself or my abilities. Besides, if they are that good, how come we haven't seen them at EBR or RMAC yet? Competition isn't for everybody, but I enjoy reading stories from people like yourself, or that young shooter Dakota, as they prepare for competition. I like seeing people succeed, to whatever level they choose to go. Thanks for the questions you've been posting recently. They are making some of us think a little more, and learn a lot. Keep them coming!

James
 
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To me, hole in hole means you can’t tell how many shots are on the paper since it literally is one hole the same diameter of the pellet or slug. But I’m fairly certain that some view hole in hole differently than that. So what does hole in hole mean to you?

Centercut:

All of those "Hole in hole" are nothing more than interconnected shots/holes...You and I consider a hole in hole shot group for certain caliber, a SINGLE hole with the diameter of said projectile; but then someone can for example shoot 10 pellets in a round pattern top to bottom (3-3-4) and that group will measure at least 3 times the diameter of the projectile...Quite a difference, but this is what I've seen is the norm for ALL the posts here and around other forums...

The "Hole in Hole" wording is a very precise term that should NOT be used unless it was effectively shot, like what ISSF 10 Meter guns shot out of a press when the factories test them before the guns are shipped...In my opinion shooters should call these "Hole in Hole" groups a "One Hole Group" so we can understand that there is more than one shot in the group and that all the shots are interconnected.

Regards,

AZ
 
I agree, makes sense. The only true "hole in hole" group I have shot (more than 2 or 3 shots) is with the my FWB 601 SSP off a bench from 13 yards in my backyard. Truly after 10 shots it looked like I had taken one shot... Other than that, mostly it seems to mean "one hole group" that is larger than a pellet diameter...
 
When I first started posting on this site I would show some “groups” from two of my R.A.W. HV br guns I would measure the groups outside to outside edge then subtract the dia. of the projectile (pellet in this case) I really never received comments about that style of measuring groups “which I thought strange?) I came from a limited CF br. Background where you measured for groups never hearing expressions like hole in hole or dime size groups? if your gun didn’t shoot in the zero’s as it was called...don’t bother! I also never had experience shooting for score (that was a rimfire game to me?) I wasn’t introduced to 25m airgun for score matches until a yr. or more later when I met a gentleman that shot registered matches not far from me. Must realize I never intended to shoot score matches I just wanted the most accurate gun for shooting groups in my backyard (because of medical issues I could not drive and this allowed me an opportunity to still shoot like in CF br) now I’ve learned that everyone on this forum wants a visual reference as in a dime etc. and not a measurement? But I guess in the end you do it your way I’ll do it my way! But true “hole in hole” is not going to be seen in airguns? But you might see groups in the One’s or maybe an occasional zero group! IMO. let me add that I’m not discriminating against airguns but any sporting arm, I also believe it’s all relative to distance and external conditions...
 
I think we have come full circle on “hole in hole” and what it means. One hole with a lot of interpretations and I am happy to have the points of view..

But coincidentally my 20 yard groups are much closer to a “hole in hole” definition than anything I could ever do at greater than 20 yards! That said, they are still “one hole” and pretty sure I can’t put 5 shots thru the same pellet hole diameter. It looks sweet, but not sure it’s 5 thru one pellet diameter. 

Like I previously mentioned; I have a new appreciation for quantifying my accuracy with regard to this thread. 
 
After reading my earlier post I wanted to say I find score shooting extremely challenging and actually keeps my interest more so than group shooting! I now just shoot groups to verify pellets, cleaning ritual, technique, and practicing in conditions, hoping to improve my scores.

Bingo! +1 to you...
 
Hey Stan

I had an HP RAW HM 1000x in .22 cal and I have to say in over 40 outdoor range outings I never shot a group like this with the RDs at 50 yards. Never ever!

If you ever come to NC, let me know and I will pay the range guest fee and $50 for every group you can shoot like this! But, we will have fun!

One pellet hole at 50 - incredible! Please describe your environment.






 
Hi Stan:

You are becoming way TOO SCARY to shhot with!…Next time I see you I will instead invite you to play marbles! 😁 

Have a nice shooting weekend…

Regards,

AZ

PS. Are you in CA or in AZ?….I will be in AZ for a couple of months starting on June…

AZ, you know more about airguns and competition shooting in your little finger than I will ever know. I'm COVID-19 locked down in Hollister California. I don't think I will be getting to Arizona until the first of October unless the situation changes. Will let you know when I can meet you there later this year.

Stan
 
Hey Stan

I had an HP RAW HM 1000x in .22 cal and I have to say in over 40 outdoor range outings I never shot a group like this with the RDs at 50 yards. Never ever!

If you ever come to NC, let me know and I will pay the range guest fee and $50 for every group you can shoot like this! But, we will have fun!

One pellet hole at 50 – incredible! Please describe your environment.

Tommyb: There is a lot of tuning that went into the gun including bedding the action, changing out the master valve, adjusting the regulator and proper lubrication as per AZ. If I do my part the gun will consistently shot 1/4 to 3/8 group at 50-yards. Of course the devil is in the wind!

Stan