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Ever wonder why you get those weird flyers that ruin an otherwise perfect little group?
Man that looks like a LOT of work there. I'm finding the same thing with my WC. There are a few pellets from the tin that when I put the x on the dot and pull the trigger, I see the hole appear right under the x. Other pellets are just above or just below that. I'm going to head size and weight a couple of tins of pellets and see if I can discover which headsize and weights are the ones that appear on that x.
I'm curious to see what you discover.
Crusher
I'm curious to see what you discover.
Crusher
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Chuck:
Are they all the same dimensions? I mean head size and skirt size? Have you noticed some oval heads on your testing pellets? Imo you have to consider all the variables before your shooting test.
Are they all the same dimensions? I mean head size and skirt size? Have you noticed some oval heads on your testing pellets? Imo you have to consider all the variables before your shooting test.
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I believe that measuring the pellet head size can pretty well explain the difference in the weight. I'm not 100% sure of that but itsounds logical to me. So when you get done measure the heads of the weight differences and let us all know how that works out.
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You are doing the same thing that F-class guys have been doing for years. You pull bullets out of a box and you always weight them and size them....then sort.
You would think with the machines today that make bullets/pellets they would be more even.
In the firearms world there are guys that also weigh brass.....I know some guys that use the same sets of brass for each event....then have the "reserve" brass all sorted just if a case will split from being worked too many times.
You would think with the machines today that make bullets/pellets they would be more even.
In the firearms world there are guys that also weigh brass.....I know some guys that use the same sets of brass for each event....then have the "reserve" brass all sorted just if a case will split from being worked too many times.
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Pellet inconsistencies within the same tin (and supposedly, the same batch), is a well known issue and varies between differing manufacturers.
Cometa/JSB (AirArms & FX) pellets, are known to be pressed from a softer quality lead as opposed to H&N etc.
This is why FX Smooth Twist systems work so well with the JSB variants, as opposed to the less fussy Lothar/Walther rifling systems.
It is my opinion that a “unique JSB Batch run”, may involve running at least 2 sets of dies in parallel and this explains the variances you have seen. AirArms & FX pellets however, whilst still being manufactured at Cometa/JSB, are the product of a smaller batch run and use singular dies. I bet if you repeated the exercise on those pellets, you will find less inconsistencies.
Washing & Lubing Pellets
I generally wash all pellets as this helps remove any waste metallic swarf chips from the pressing process that may still be mixed up with the pellets in the tin.
I only lube pellets for single-shot target shooting and these have helped with shot consistency. I don’t generally lube pellets if they are to go in a magazine.
I don’t weigh pellets, but will use a pellet-gauge to sift out those with differing head sizes for shooting competitions, which works for me.
The niggling “Emporer’s New Clothes” issue I have, is that pellet production and overall consistency is a moving feast and is something that we will never eradicate completely, especially as this is so reliant on sourcing similar qualities of lead ore. Guns are now being manufactured with a much higher capacity for configuration to make the most of TODAYS pellet characteristics and FX may be pushing this further with the future offering of barrels with differing twist rates to hopefully provide a closer pellet-to-gun match. But as your post demonstrates, that unless you personally sift through the different pellet variances, that you will still end up with the same level of “fliers”, irrespective of your barrel type / twist rate.
Cometa/JSB (AirArms & FX) pellets, are known to be pressed from a softer quality lead as opposed to H&N etc.
This is why FX Smooth Twist systems work so well with the JSB variants, as opposed to the less fussy Lothar/Walther rifling systems.
It is my opinion that a “unique JSB Batch run”, may involve running at least 2 sets of dies in parallel and this explains the variances you have seen. AirArms & FX pellets however, whilst still being manufactured at Cometa/JSB, are the product of a smaller batch run and use singular dies. I bet if you repeated the exercise on those pellets, you will find less inconsistencies.
Washing & Lubing Pellets
I generally wash all pellets as this helps remove any waste metallic swarf chips from the pressing process that may still be mixed up with the pellets in the tin.
I only lube pellets for single-shot target shooting and these have helped with shot consistency. I don’t generally lube pellets if they are to go in a magazine.
I don’t weigh pellets, but will use a pellet-gauge to sift out those with differing head sizes for shooting competitions, which works for me.
The niggling “Emporer’s New Clothes” issue I have, is that pellet production and overall consistency is a moving feast and is something that we will never eradicate completely, especially as this is so reliant on sourcing similar qualities of lead ore. Guns are now being manufactured with a much higher capacity for configuration to make the most of TODAYS pellet characteristics and FX may be pushing this further with the future offering of barrels with differing twist rates to hopefully provide a closer pellet-to-gun match. But as your post demonstrates, that unless you personally sift through the different pellet variances, that you will still end up with the same level of “fliers”, irrespective of your barrel type / twist rate.
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I wonder.
Pellets start out as an ingot of lead (not ore), and are alloyed for hardness. That lead is then formed into lead wire, cut to length, then swaged into the shape we all know as diabolo. The real problem is the way the wire is cut. A better description of the process would be cleaved. In other words, the weight variation occurs during this cutting process, and not in the die itself.
Step back about 100 years, and pellets were made out of dropped ball shot (made in a shot tower), and thus a lot more uniform in weight than we see today.
So, if we want better weight control (accuracy?), we're left with a choice; We either demand, and be willing to pay for, more consistent pellets, or we do the sorting ourselves.
Pellets start out as an ingot of lead (not ore), and are alloyed for hardness. That lead is then formed into lead wire, cut to length, then swaged into the shape we all know as diabolo. The real problem is the way the wire is cut. A better description of the process would be cleaved. In other words, the weight variation occurs during this cutting process, and not in the die itself.
Step back about 100 years, and pellets were made out of dropped ball shot (made in a shot tower), and thus a lot more uniform in weight than we see today.
So, if we want better weight control (accuracy?), we're left with a choice; We either demand, and be willing to pay for, more consistent pellets, or we do the sorting ourselves.
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I just did everything your doing now about a week ago. At 50 yards your not gonna notice a very big difference. But there is a difference for sure even at 50 yards. I shot my lightest pellet which weighed 32.9gn and the heaviest which weighed 35.1gn at 50 yards and its noticable. I took the rest of my pellets after being sorted and sent them out to my 120 yard target and that's where I seen my work make a difference. Accuracy down range will improve tremendously for you. These are the best guns in the world that were shooting, yet were shooting the worst ammo ever created. Something has to change these pellets are need more to be more quality. Try shooting over chrony after having sorted out the pellets. It's all duplicates you'll be amazed!!
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Guest
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Head size and weight have no correlation. You will see the same weight variances regardless of head sizes and vise versa. I know this because I've weighed and sized thousands if not tens of thousands of rounds over the last few years.
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The weight difference has to be within the pellet. I' thinking theres pockets of air forming inside the pellet as they cool down inside the die. I took a pellet that weighed 34.0 gn and scraped the head on a wet stone to shave some off. Just so I can get an idea of how much a gn is. I scraped a decent bit off the pellet before it showed missing .1 grains. After doing this I can say that head size will not have an effect on pellet weight.
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The weight difference has to be within the pellet. I' thinking theres pockets of air forming inside the pellet as they cool down inside the die. I took a pellet that weighed 34.0 gn and scraped the head on a wet stone to shave some off. Just so I can get an idea of how much a gn is. I scraped a decent bit off the pellet before it showed missing .1 grains. After doing this I can say that head size will not have an effect on pellet weight.
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I can also concur that head size and weight are NOT a direct correlation. I have done both.
i do want to ask, which do you guys think is more beneficial for getting the best and quickest results. When I sort by weight I dont get much of a drastic change until I stretch out to further distances, say 100-120 yards. When I sorted by head size, it was too tough to tell. I can confirm though that some brands, particular gn pellet have much better head size variences than others.
i do want to ask, which do you guys think is more beneficial for getting the best and quickest results. When I sort by weight I dont get much of a drastic change until I stretch out to further distances, say 100-120 yards. When I sorted by head size, it was too tough to tell. I can confirm though that some brands, particular gn pellet have much better head size variences than others.
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Sorting by Weight is gonna bring you the best results. My impact at 50 yards is pellet on pellet it can't be better than that. That's after sorting by weight. Shooting the heaviest pellet then the lightest pellet will slightly change the poi even at 50. I dont sort by head size dont believe it has an effect. Weight is the way to go man.
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Hi Alan,
Here’s an interesting link describing how lead ore (Galena) is mined and how lead is extracted and refined into ingots.
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Lead.html
Regards
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I also think weight is more a factor then head size. No mattter what head size they all have to go thru the barrel and will come out the same size....unless the barrel bore is loose and smaller head pellets don't have positive interface. These over size barrels and smaller heads could also cause blow by. Also a clean barrel vs. dirty one. With all that I don't weigh, size, or clean my pellets or barrel. I just want to shoot the thing for poopz and giggles mostly.
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As I posted the other day I wash and weigh in three different weights.At 50 yards I really couldn't see a difference. Then I tried lubing lightly with Slick50-1 Groups got some tighter and the pellets loaded much easier through the magazine. Where the biggest difference was at long yardage.
Every gun is different I am going to try sorting by head size next but I want longer glass more than a $60.00 pellet sizer! LOL
Every gun is different I am going to try sorting by head size next but I want longer glass more than a $60.00 pellet sizer! LOL
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