People that have a problem with others presenting opinions that differ from their own should avoid the Internet.
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Weary of the reviewer cynics
- Thread starter ClearedHot
- Start date
It is always the problem and anyone doing research should check more than 1 review. Search and search again the net before pulling the trigger on kit.
The problem is, and trust me I am having this trouble as a newbie YouTube channel, is getting the kit to test. Unless of course you are rich and can afford to buy it all, which I cannot. It is a vicious circle. Get the rifles, take the sponsorship / hand outs and of course cater to the manufacturer's / gun shops needs to continue.
I am trying an alternative approach of trying to be totally un sponsored and get loaners of fellow enthusiasts and trust me it is NOT easy far a long stretch. Whether I can make it work or not, I am not sure, but I will give it a good go. I feel we can give "some" of the reviewers some slack if they get freebies, but with a lot of them we need to take it with a pinch of salt as the OP has said. Some of the reviewers I watch just to see the rifles / kit and totally ignore everything they say as it is blatantly obvious they are a paid salesman.
My fav reviewer is Ted, I believe he does it because he loves the guns. FX obviously have spotted this and well he gets some nice treatment from them. Good for him. There are other reviews on FX I will also watch to "try" and get a balance review. But the best place is forums such as this for "real" reviews.
Interesting subject and well said OP.
The problem is, and trust me I am having this trouble as a newbie YouTube channel, is getting the kit to test. Unless of course you are rich and can afford to buy it all, which I cannot. It is a vicious circle. Get the rifles, take the sponsorship / hand outs and of course cater to the manufacturer's / gun shops needs to continue.
I am trying an alternative approach of trying to be totally un sponsored and get loaners of fellow enthusiasts and trust me it is NOT easy far a long stretch. Whether I can make it work or not, I am not sure, but I will give it a good go. I feel we can give "some" of the reviewers some slack if they get freebies, but with a lot of them we need to take it with a pinch of salt as the OP has said. Some of the reviewers I watch just to see the rifles / kit and totally ignore everything they say as it is blatantly obvious they are a paid salesman.
My fav reviewer is Ted, I believe he does it because he loves the guns. FX obviously have spotted this and well he gets some nice treatment from them. Good for him. There are other reviews on FX I will also watch to "try" and get a balance review. But the best place is forums such as this for "real" reviews.
Interesting subject and well said OP.
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Well said ClearedHot. As someone relatively new to shooting I look at all reviews and opinions I can find in my research before I buy, and I believe most do, and I certainly appreciate anyones review of products that are mainstream or not from all over the world. Everything gets taken with a grain of salt but the time taken by all to review something is certainly appreciated.
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My only problem, I guess that's what you would call it . Is that the paid guys might be a little biased . The upside to the paid guys ... Let's take Rick Eustler as an example( which I enjoy his videos ) Is that they have access to numbers of guns that the normal AirGun enthusiast can't afford . So they can compare them against one another . Which I think is very helpful !!!!
Most airgunner guys are spread out an only have access to Walmart guns an the guns they have personally ordered ...I KNOW that was the case to me for a long time ..With videos and written articles as their only source of info it can be frustrating. There is nothing like holding and shooting the gun for yourself to get a real "Feel" for it .
I went a couple months ago to my first AirGun Show ( great experience) and what kinda surprised me was there were a few guns I had Way up my list of want to own one day , and a few I kinda mentally wrote off.
But after seeing them in person my opinions changed a LOT !! . Which brands they were isn't important but the fact that handling them showed me more than videos had was interesting. One gun had a feature that just screamed CHEAP and after seeing it , I went back to some videos and not ONE person mentioned it , but to me it jumped out at me .
If your favorite video guy doesn't mention something or skims over it , It may not be that he didn't notice it . It may be to him it wasn't important to mention.
Most airgunner guys are spread out an only have access to Walmart guns an the guns they have personally ordered ...I KNOW that was the case to me for a long time ..With videos and written articles as their only source of info it can be frustrating. There is nothing like holding and shooting the gun for yourself to get a real "Feel" for it .
I went a couple months ago to my first AirGun Show ( great experience) and what kinda surprised me was there were a few guns I had Way up my list of want to own one day , and a few I kinda mentally wrote off.
But after seeing them in person my opinions changed a LOT !! . Which brands they were isn't important but the fact that handling them showed me more than videos had was interesting. One gun had a feature that just screamed CHEAP and after seeing it , I went back to some videos and not ONE person mentioned it , but to me it jumped out at me .
If your favorite video guy doesn't mention something or skims over it , It may not be that he didn't notice it . It may be to him it wasn't important to mention.
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Considering the rarity of PCP air rifles on retailers shelves, we are forced to live vicariously through the exploits of the YouTube reviewers. So are the manufacturers.
I'm thankful for the service they provide by exposing us to lust worthy offerings. Keep 'em coming!
I'm thankful for the service they provide by exposing us to lust worthy offerings. Keep 'em coming!
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A compensated review is an advertisement for a product pure and simple. Professional Golfers get PAID to endorse clubs, shoes and soda. If you respect the opinion of the PAID endorser buy the product. Just understand they are being PAID for their endorsement then ask yourself would they recommend the product without being paid?
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G
Guest
Guest
I'm not weary of ANY reviewer!
I just personally like Rick Eutsler's reviews better than anyone else's, but Paul Capello is also thorough in his reporting on all makes of Airguns.
Rick has a well-funded contract with large airgun supplier Pyramyd Air, who sells me all my Airguns, Scopes, and Ammo, so he tests everything in the Pyramyd Air catalog, using different pellets and publishing all the accuracy and ballistic facts of all guns and the best ammo suited for them. He is not "pushing" the product of any one manufacturer.
After every review, he always lists the pluses and minuses of the tested airgun.
He's a big Commercial reviewer, and I've always bought the items he rewards with good reviews.
SpringerHal
I just personally like Rick Eutsler's reviews better than anyone else's, but Paul Capello is also thorough in his reporting on all makes of Airguns.
Rick has a well-funded contract with large airgun supplier Pyramyd Air, who sells me all my Airguns, Scopes, and Ammo, so he tests everything in the Pyramyd Air catalog, using different pellets and publishing all the accuracy and ballistic facts of all guns and the best ammo suited for them. He is not "pushing" the product of any one manufacturer.
After every review, he always lists the pluses and minuses of the tested airgun.
He's a big Commercial reviewer, and I've always bought the items he rewards with good reviews.
SpringerHal
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http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews5088.html
www.airgunnation.com
www.gatewaytoairguns.com
Follow these links and you will find hundreds of user reviews covering almost any airgun.
Your welcome!
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I'm ashamed to say how many of the reviewers channels are in my YouTube subscribed list. My favorites folder is bulging from all the new airgun sites and forums. I did not have reviewcenter.com amongst them.
Thanks, Zebra!
Thanks, Zebra!
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I wouldn't be too sure about this. He stated that he had "asked for a fixed" shroud, not a personal customized gun in any way?
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I have no idea about how reviewers get their guns to test. But if I was running the show at a company and someone with thousands or even hundreds of followers contacted me I would have one of my employees "make sure" the rifle I sent for them to test was checked out before it left the factory or distributor.
Steve at AEAC tested a FX Royale .25 and posted a review on 9-22-2016. It was a rifle loaned from AOA. And anyone can buy the same rifle that was reviewed at 10% off, and Steve was doing the shipping from his location. 5 days ago this was still available. So if it was a "cherry picked" shooter its been 2 months and still available to buy.
For me blueprinting has been only in PB rifles and it was bolt face to receiver and receiver to barrel. Some of the air rifles that you can now index the barrel would be fun to tinker with?
Steve at AEAC tested a FX Royale .25 and posted a review on 9-22-2016. It was a rifle loaned from AOA. And anyone can buy the same rifle that was reviewed at 10% off, and Steve was doing the shipping from his location. 5 days ago this was still available. So if it was a "cherry picked" shooter its been 2 months and still available to buy.
For me blueprinting has been only in PB rifles and it was bolt face to receiver and receiver to barrel. Some of the air rifles that you can now index the barrel would be fun to tinker with?
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My thought as well.
I'd guess Ted's Impact was off the shelf (not "blueprinted"), with the fixed LDC he begged for being the same as what FX ships now on both .25 and .30 versions.
Per iride's suggestion, let's ask Ted !!!
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Whether a reviewers gun is selected at random or handpicked to be the cream of the crop is not what's important. Or at least it's not the only important factor.
First is if they are allowed to tell you they hated as well as that they loved it. Second is if their view is representative of the whole. We all know that no two air guns perform identically. There is actually a huge variation between the best and the worst example of any given rifle.
Person A might get a tack driver with a beautifully figured stock while person B gets the one that can't hit elephants at point blank range and a stock that looks like it's from Ikea.
This is why I prefer to listen to you guys over professional reviewers. With you I get multiple opinions so I can see the range of what I might get from worst case scenario to getting lucky with that once in a lifetime gun. One person might not tell the truth but they will be eventually drowned out by the crowd.
This doesn't mean that pro reviewers have no value at all. Some of them do a nice job of providing factual info on a guns features. I don't need to worry about how they are compensated when they are telling me a gun has a side-lever, is 35" long and weighs 8lb. I just prefer to wait to hear from you guys before I decide to buy one. I believe this is just common sense.
I have spoken to a few of the well known reviewers and they told me that they have to be careful not to say anything that would effect sales if they want the stores to keep sending them product to review. That makes sense. Why would a store send guns to someone who might advise people to buy a competitors product instead? One of the major reviewers offered to give me his real opinion if I contacted him privately by email.
Does this make me a reviewer cynic? I consider myself to be a logical person. I make decisions based on the info in front of me. If that makes anyone weary then.... um.... too bad!
First is if they are allowed to tell you they hated as well as that they loved it. Second is if their view is representative of the whole. We all know that no two air guns perform identically. There is actually a huge variation between the best and the worst example of any given rifle.
Person A might get a tack driver with a beautifully figured stock while person B gets the one that can't hit elephants at point blank range and a stock that looks like it's from Ikea.
This is why I prefer to listen to you guys over professional reviewers. With you I get multiple opinions so I can see the range of what I might get from worst case scenario to getting lucky with that once in a lifetime gun. One person might not tell the truth but they will be eventually drowned out by the crowd.
This doesn't mean that pro reviewers have no value at all. Some of them do a nice job of providing factual info on a guns features. I don't need to worry about how they are compensated when they are telling me a gun has a side-lever, is 35" long and weighs 8lb. I just prefer to wait to hear from you guys before I decide to buy one. I believe this is just common sense.
I have spoken to a few of the well known reviewers and they told me that they have to be careful not to say anything that would effect sales if they want the stores to keep sending them product to review. That makes sense. Why would a store send guns to someone who might advise people to buy a competitors product instead? One of the major reviewers offered to give me his real opinion if I contacted him privately by email.
Does this make me a reviewer cynic? I consider myself to be a logical person. I make decisions based on the info in front of me. If that makes anyone weary then.... um.... too bad!
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If a reviewer must be completely independent, how would you propose that the reviewer fund their hobby that they make so much on? Guys like Ted have real jobs and real families. If you expect them to cater to completely inane requirements from armchair quarterbacks, you'll be sadly disappointed.
I for one, don't really care if Ted or other reviewers receive something for the reviews. They do us all a service by spending their time and effort in getting the material to review, and passing the information along to us.
Really, how do you really expect Ted to review an FX Impact ($1,899 at AOA) and a fancy scope ($500 range typically) on a normal human's budget (with family coming first I might add)
So far as I'm concerned, if you want to whine about the "Sales People" that get at most a pittance for reviewing this stuff, please expect negative comments coming right back at ya.
If you have constructive comments about the gun, scope, or other accouterments being reviewed, happy to listen.
I for one, don't really care if Ted or other reviewers receive something for the reviews. They do us all a service by spending their time and effort in getting the material to review, and passing the information along to us.
Really, how do you really expect Ted to review an FX Impact ($1,899 at AOA) and a fancy scope ($500 range typically) on a normal human's budget (with family coming first I might add)
So far as I'm concerned, if you want to whine about the "Sales People" that get at most a pittance for reviewing this stuff, please expect negative comments coming right back at ya.
If you have constructive comments about the gun, scope, or other accouterments being reviewed, happy to listen.
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"constructive comments about the gun, scope, or other accouterments"... while great, are covered under related (other) threads.
What I perceived in the thread title....
- ...measuring reviews precipitated by compensation, vs those where there is no dog or favor in the hunt.
Sensible cynicism of an audience that has witnessed first hand how compensation may skew a review is being mulled over here, and makes perfect sense to me...
...also makes sense to point out that MANY compensated reviews are completely fair and honest. Discerning where to find them is a valuable asset to AGN members.
Hope this thread helps all of us. I'm all ears, and glad the topic is tolerated.
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look guys reviewers like ted wont ever have any idea how off the shelf products works, they get cherry picked stuff and thats a FACT.
Sure use them to check out features and function, but they cant tell you about quality and even performance is iffy.
This is just how the world works, the only honest review is us, the normal people. Sadly we really dont know wtf we are talking about half the time
Sure use them to check out features and function, but they cant tell you about quality and even performance is iffy.
This is just how the world works, the only honest review is us, the normal people. Sadly we really dont know wtf we are talking about half the time
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Cynic !!"Deja"look guys reviewers like ted wont ever have any idea how off the shelf products works, they get cherry picked stuff and thats a FACT....
...This is just how the world works....
Just kidding.
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"And that's a fact"
You may believe what you will, however, unless you have some type of evidence of your belief, might want to keep it under wraps as we (the weary and not quite so cynical) are free to believe that the products are whatever we choose to believe.
But by your comments, all guns that all reviewers are reviewing are cherry picked?
And how does one "Cherry Pick" guns that are mass produced, packaged identically, and the warehouse has 20 or 100 on the shelf? Remember, once opened, the gun cannot be sold as new under US Law, must be identified as used, refurb, or other, but not new.
So you are telling me that the supplier opens multiple boxes, lose value of those guns, now marking them as new, and has a knowledgeable employee shoot the guns until they find a good one and then re-seal, repackage, and ship to the reviewer? Me thinks you are up in the night.
Even the claim that the manufacturer blue printed the guns before sending. Get real. If the series of guns is good and the manufacturer has confidence in them (and I believe FX does have confidence), then why should they waste the effort?
Believe what you want, but before you claim corruption and state, "And that's a fact", you might want to have evidence of the fact.
You may believe what you will, however, unless you have some type of evidence of your belief, might want to keep it under wraps as we (the weary and not quite so cynical) are free to believe that the products are whatever we choose to believe.
But by your comments, all guns that all reviewers are reviewing are cherry picked?
And how does one "Cherry Pick" guns that are mass produced, packaged identically, and the warehouse has 20 or 100 on the shelf? Remember, once opened, the gun cannot be sold as new under US Law, must be identified as used, refurb, or other, but not new.
So you are telling me that the supplier opens multiple boxes, lose value of those guns, now marking them as new, and has a knowledgeable employee shoot the guns until they find a good one and then re-seal, repackage, and ship to the reviewer? Me thinks you are up in the night.
Even the claim that the manufacturer blue printed the guns before sending. Get real. If the series of guns is good and the manufacturer has confidence in them (and I believe FX does have confidence), then why should they waste the effort?
Believe what you want, but before you claim corruption and state, "And that's a fact", you might want to have evidence of the fact.
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