Want to Buy a .25

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So a scuba tank filled to like 3300PSI (230 bar) wouldn't work for air rifles over 40ftlbs? But a SCBA tank filled to 300bar (4350PSI) would? I was under the impression that at least for the Daystate Huntsman XL 230bars would be sufficient. Would this change if I started looking at an FX. Both manufacturer's claim their fill pressure is under 230bar (230bar for Daystate and 220bar for FX). 

This sort of thing would be of some importance. Locally, I'm pretty sure I can only fill to 230 bar - but I can check with a guy who is a fireman in the area, because I think they use SCBA tanks...
 
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If you want a gun capable of consistent accuracy past 75 - 80 yards a 25 cal is the way to go. The Air Arms guns in 25 cal are 40 fpe max and unregulated. The Daystate Regal is a 37 -38 fpe in 25 cal and again no regulator. The Daystate harper vaulve isnt as consistent a regulator. For the same money there are regulated .25's shooting 45+ fpe each shot.

A 25 King will buck the wind better at 900 fps compared to 860 fps. FX, Cricket, Edgun, Ataman are a few regulated guns that can push the 25 grain Kings 900+ fps consistently.
 
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A Kalibrgun Cricket can be filled to 4350 psi. Several others can be filled to 250 bar (where I run my Cricket) so a 4500 psi tank is preferable in all cases imho since it equates to more fills even if you don't need but 200 to 220 bar for the gun. If you opted for a bullpup design then the Cricket produces 50 foot pounds with JSB .25 34 grain pellets straight out of the box.

Thurmond
 
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This is why I was asking on here :) Great opinions, thanks everyone. You guys have expanded my air rifle search more in one day than I had alone in about 2 weeks. 

Anyways - currently looking at the FX Royale 300 in .25. FXs says it charges to 220bar (3200psi) and pushes 45ftlb, which would be enough for me (I think). So I could fill this from a Scuba tank from what I understand...

I really like the Cricket Carabines, except for that gaudy sporter stock. The Cricket's are also pretty available here and the price seems good. I wonder how much a new stock would cost ;)
 
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"PistolPete"So a scuba tank filled to like 3300PSI (230 bar) wouldn't work for air rifles over 40ftlbs? But a SCBA tank filled to 300bar (4350PSI) would? I was under the impression that at least for the Daystate Huntsman XL 230bars would be sufficient. Would this change if I started looking at an FX. Both manufacturer's claim their fill pressure is under 230bar (230bar for Daystate and 220bar for FX). 

This sort of thing would be of some importance. Locally, I'm pretty sure I can only fill to 230 bar - but I can check with a guy who is a fireman in the area, because I think they use SCBA tanks...
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One thing has nothing to do with the other. The fill pressure is only relavent for the number of shots, not the the power. There are 200 ft lb guns that only use a 3000 psi fill. If you take two 50ft lb gun with the same size reservoir and fill one to 3000 psi and one to 4000psi, the 4000psi gun will get more shots per fill. 

Take the 25 cal JKhan bullpups and the Cricket 25 cal bullpups as an example. The Jkhan fills to 200bar and gets around 30-40 shots per fill. I fill the Cricket to around 225-250 bar and get 60+ shots per fill. That's with both at around 50 ft lb. I could choose to only fill the Cricket to 200 bar and just get fewer shots if I wanted. 

You tend to see 300 bar max fill pressures on mid-high end regulated guns.

regardless of the Max fill pressure for the gun you choose, you should get a 4500 psi scba tank over a 3000 psi one. With a 3000 psi tank, you would only be able to fill an air gun to 3000 psi once and then the tank pressure would be below 3000 psi. You might only be able to fill to 2800psi for second fill and 2700psi for the 3rd etc. With a 4500psi tank, you'd get a number of 3000psi or 3500 psi fills before the tank pressure dropped too low to fully fill your gun. 

Even for my guns that have a max fill of 300 bar, I rarely fill them to more than 225 or 250. To be clear, any gun can be run on 3000 psi.

All firefighters scba tanks are 4500 psi here. Not sure about other countries. If you have trouble finding a 4500 psi fill, buying a shoebox compressor is the way to go. 
 
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Glen - I'm willing to open up to that Cricket Carabine, but I dunno about those bullpups. It's not so much the looks as I'm afraid they'll handle quiet a bit different from my hunting rigs. The Cricket Carabine in .25 is a few ounces lighter and I think pretty much exactly the same weight as my other setups, which is super nice. Just the ugly stock, but maybe I can live with it ;)

The Ataman M2R Carabine also looks nice, though it's kind of a beast in terms of weight (8.82lbs). It's also quite powerful. What's the deal here?

Zebra - I think I had understood that, but my concern was that if I can only tank to around 3000PSI locally, than a gun that has a rating for >3000PSI will shoot with less energy sooner. I can easily find used and still certified scuba tanks in the 60 cuin, 180cuin and even up to around 900cuin (15L) at pretty decent prices. All of the tanks I'm looking at are certified to 300bar (4350PSI). The problem is getting them tanked that high. The scuba places only want to tank them up to 230bar, but I'm sure there's a work around somewhere. I'll have to look into it. 

I was kind of looking to get an idea of how many tank ups a guy could expect to get into a "typical" PCP rifle out of let's say a "typical" Scuba tank. I'd really like to avoid the Shoebox compressor at this point and put my money in gun and optics.

Thanks again everyone!
 
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Here's a fill calculator

http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/index.php

Now, you really won't be able to use it 100% accurately yet because you're not sure what your gun is actually going to perform in it's pressurized power range, but, you could guess based on what other owners here are shooting if someone has the guns you're looking at. You might need this bar to psi calculator too

http://www.endmemo.com/sconvert/barpsi.php

So for instance if I shoot my Hatsan Gladius .25 Long and I'm in the market for a tank, which I am, and I want to know how many fills I'll get per tank I go to the 2nd calculator first to compute my fill level for psi. I've tuned my Gladius on power setting 4 where I do the bulk of my shooting to give me 2 full magazines, 18 shots, at a very low extreme spread, you'd think it was regulated the shots are so consistent. I fill it, the 255cc cylinder, to 200 bar which, according to the calculator, is 2900 psi. The 2 magazines empty it down to 150 bar which translates to around 2175 psi. Using the first calculator I can plug those two psi numbers in and I have to select the size tank I'm considering which also determines how much air it will hold, how much air is in the tank (for shopping purposes always go with a full tank) and you need to know how big the reservoir is for your gun. The Gladius has a 255cc cylinder. There is one factor that you won't know unless you have contact with others that use the service to fill or the service itself can tell you and that is how much air they actually put into the tank when you get it filled. I don't own a tank so I've never gotten one filled but I have lots of shooting buddies that do so they tell me when the tanks are filled too quickly the air heats up the tank and once it's filled and cooled down they can easily lose 200-300 psi on a fill. The hot air expands creating more pressure so some fill stations keep the tank over night or for a while to let it cool down and top it off again to get it up to the maximum the tank will take. 

In my limited experience there's about 3 levels of PCP's; low pressure, medium pressure and high pressure. Low is going to be guns like the Discovery, operating under 2000 psi. Medium is the bulk of your first time/entry level guns like the Hatsans, the Mrods, Gamo, etc. High is going to be your more expensive, higher end guns like FX, Cricket, etc. This sort of makes sense to me on an economic level thinking that if you only have the budget for the least expensive gun then you probably are going to have to hand pump it as well since that's the cheaper option to charge it. If you have the budget for a high end gun then you probably have the budget for a tank fill system as well. One of the reasons the higher end guns get such great shot counts is because they can fill up to a higher psi level. I think I saw a chart where a properly tuned .25 Cricket was spitting out in excess of 60 rounds per charge. I'd have to fill my Gladius 3.33333 times to get 60 shots. To fill 3 times from a tank takes a total of maybe 2 minutes. To hand pump 3 times would take an hour or more. 
 
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Pete, you really can't go wrong with a Cricket Carbine. My .25 was shooting a hair over 45 FPE right out of the box with 48 shots on a 220 bar fill.
I liked my .25 so well , that I bought one in .177 and later traded my .22 FX 400 for one in .22 cal to round out my collection.

I Like the Kalibrguns so well that I jumped at the the chance to buy a lightly used Colibri and couldn't be happier. I fully understand the bullpup craze. I'm eyeballing the Mutants right now , and if I was gonna jump into .30 cal it would probably be an FX Bobcat.

I've had and shot a lot of rifles. My Crickets are hands down the best feeling rifle in my hands that I've ever shot. The only rifle I've ever shouldered that felt better was the Daystate MK4 but I just don't care for the electronic triggers.












 
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Thanks Endeavor, I have way more guns than I can shoot. I just have to at least try to sell one or two every time I buy another ;-)

ddransoml, That's the infamous Kalibrgun Colibri AKA Hummingbird. They are hard to find right now as Kalibrgun has discontinued production of them for the time being. I hear folks talk of them as being a "Cult Classic" now days? LOL

Matt Dubber did a really cool review on them ;-)

http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/kalibrgun-colibri-full-review-video/
 
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Getting Cricket parts has never been an issue for me. I just contacted Kalibrgun and they mailed them to me. Had them at my door in less than a week. 

O ring kits are available on ebay.

You are more likely to find a 4500 psi fill at firefighter supply stores or paintball stores than dive shops. Most scuba tanks still use the Din 200 valve which is 3000 psi. The DIn 300 valve which is 300 bar is still fairly rare in America (although there is one dive shop near me that can use it. With an adapter to go from the scba nipple and nut to a regular 1/8" NPT fitting, any paintball store should be able to fill an scba tank to 300 bar. 

If not, a Cricket 25 will still get 40 shots with a 200 bar fill. If I had to live with a 3000 psi tank, I would buy an air Venturi hand pump as well so I could top off the air fill. I.e use the tank to fill to 2900 psi and then pump to 3500.
 
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Pete my .25 was actually pushing 47.5 FPE when I first got it in early 2014. It has settled down a bit to just over 45 FPE within the last couple years on it's own? I haven't done anything to it.

I'm with JC on the Nitrogen tank. I lease a 6000 psi Nitrogen tank and I have a close friend who shoots just as much as I do, so we split the cost of it together. I bought my own set of gauges for the Nitrogen set up and I have 3 SCBA bottles and a Guppy. I usually just keep them filled from the huge Nitrogen tank and fill my rifles from the smaller tanks. The 6000 psi bottle usually last us about 4 months, then I just call the welding shop and they come to my house with a fresh bottle and change it out.

I prefer the SCBA tanks with the SCBA Joe Brancato fill assy. However I am warming up to this little guppy bottle with the Joe B. slow fill assy.

My 44 cu ft SCBA bottle is in the pics







My mom shooting the .25 back in the spring of 2014 ;-)



That was back before I learned the value of a good Caldwell Tackdriver bag or a decent bipod. ;-)

 
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