Want to Buy a .25

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PistolPete

PistolPete

Member
Oct 21, 2016
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Hey All,

First post on the forum, not including the intro, but wanted to get some opinions from you guys out there. I'm looking to make my first PCP purchase. It will be used mostly for plinking and for hunting small critters up to maybe a fox. Ideally, I'd like to be able to hit targets reliably at around 100yards and take down foxes up to 50yards. I'm pretty sure this puts me firmly in the .25 area (bigger bore pellets are really impossible to find where I am). I hunt and am looking for something that will have a similar enough swing to a normal rifle (my primary hunting rifle is a Mauser in .308Win), so I don't want to get anything that isn't a rifle in appearance, is "super light", or anything that would have a really weird swing like those Air Arms TCs. 

So, basically, I've knocked the options down to a Daystate Huntsman Regal XL in .25. I really like the looks of the gun, the Daystates all have great reviews for quality, etc. I thought about the M-Rod in .25, and while it'd save me some cash, I can't see it being a gun I'd want in my locker for the next 20 years. I've also been looking at Air Arms and really do like their products, but I can't find a lot of info about the 510 in .25. 

Anyways, I'd really like to hear some opinions or maybe some other suggestions. Getting a air rifle above 12ftlbs/17J where I live requires registration, so I want to be 150% sure on the rifle before I take the plunge. That also makes sale of the rifle pretty difficult, so I want to get a keeper. It's also impossible to actually go and see the air rifle or shoot it, because no stores stock anything above 12ftlbs/17J (or, generally, any upper mid or upper range air rifles). 

Thanks!
 
In the current market all the options available are very good. Manufacturers like Daystate, Fx etc make wonderful guns. They will all outshoot you and will last for a long time. It all comes down to your personal preference what you like more. You may not be able to shoot one but can have a feel of it at a gun store. So in my opinion get a feel of each gun and get the one that you like the most.
 
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Why a .25 cal with 12 fpe ? Your velocity has to be in the 455-465fps with 25gr ish pellets ! Your trajectory is going to be so great your estimated distance will be very important to get a hit. At that kind of energy I doubt you are going to be able to take foxes at 50 yrds, you will probably be injuring them The frontal surface area is so great in relation to the energy, a JSB King has almost 9fpe at 50yds, not much, its velocity is close to 400fpe, so it does keep its velocity well, at plus.

The biggest caliber I would go for is .22 with a somewhat light pellet ...... even a 14gr 22cal at 625fps put you over 12 fpe ......

wll2506
 
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"wll2506"Why a .25 cal with 12 fpe ? Your velocity has to be in the 455-465fps with 25gr ish pellets ! Your trajectory is going to be so great your estimated distance will be very important to get a hit. At that kind of energy I doubt you are going to be able to take foxes at 50 yrds, you will probably be injuring them The frontal surface area is so great in relation to the energy, a JSB King has almost 9fpe at 50yds, not much, its velocity is close to 400fpe, so it does keep its velocity well, at plus.

The biggest caliber I would go for is .22 with a somewhat light pellet ...... even a 14gr 22cal at 625fps put you over 12 fpe ......

wll2506
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I think you misinterpreted what he's saying. He will get a gun that's higher than 12 FPE and to do that where he lives requires a permit, which most don't have, so he'll have a very difficult time moving this gun used if he doesn't like it. He wants to make sure his choice will not disappoint because he's planning on keeping it and using it for years and years since it's so difficult to move on the used market there. 

.25 cal will be ideal for your needs. I have one shooting buddy that has his Mrod dialed in I saw him hit one hole at 103 yards for multiple shots. It sounds like you're willing to spend on this, including your fill system, so certainly a jump up in gun quality is a good thing to do. I've not shot a Daystate so I can't comment on that. I've shot one FX Impact in .22 a few rounds and it was a very nice gun. Your biggest challenge, in my experience, will be lightweight. The lighter the gun the more money is takes to purchase. 

Plinking with a .25 most certainly means a tank and fill system. You will not want to hand pump a .25 plinker. A .25 hunter is a different story, not nearly as many shots, but in a plinking session where you could go through 100+ pellets quickly, get a tank.
 
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PistolPeteThanks!

You think basically any .25 will be decent to targets out to 100m and pests out to 50m?
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Yup, if you do your part.
In my opinion RAW HM1000X is a master piece of a pcp. The build quality, durability, accuracy is the top class. I would go for one without even blinking. A budy of mine has one in walnut stock and carbon fiber air tank. It shoots at 970fps with jsb kings and is laser accurate.
 
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Yeh - to be clear - I'm not getting a 12ftlb rifle. I am in the market for something >40ftlbs @ .25. My thinking on this is that I want to be able to throw lead below the subsonic threshold with enough force to hit something good and dead at 50yds. 

Glen & Frank - the FX's look nice. I especially like the Royale 300. I'm looking for something a bit more traditional and this may fit my purposes. As for weight, my Mauser is 7lbs + the Zeiss (+ >1lb) + whatever the mount weighs, so I actually wanted to mimic that weight. I'm not super concerned about getting a lightweight shooter. I'm not scared of lunking around a setup in the 9-10lb range, I'm a bit more concerned about length really, especially since I might want to get a silencer if the baffling isn't enough (like a 48'' Edgun Morana...you'd be knocking branches carrying that thing in a shoulder sling).

As for the fills - I'm definitely going to be getting a SCBA tank. I was thinking about getting a larger one and a smaller one, but I don't even know what "large" is for these purposes. Ideally, I'd have something I can clunk out to the shooting area (about 100meters from the house) and then a bigger bottle at the home. What sort of sizes do you guys use?
 
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The Daystate Huntsman Regal XL in 40 ft/lb will please you a lot. It is standard in feel and appearance to a firearm. It has beautiful fit and finish and the woodwork is superb. In addition it comes with a silencer attached already. You will still need very good shot placement at 50 yards for a fox but I have taken Coyotes at 50 yards with just a bit more power (50 ft/lb) and a lung heart shot. Another very fine gun but with a less conventional look is the Airforce Condor which gives me 100 ft/lb using my hand cast 50 grain bullets which will easily do what you indicated in your first post.

Where are you located?

Thurmond
 
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If you want to be in the >40 fpe area you'll need to get carbon fiber tanks or a mini compressor instead of a regular SCBA tank as you'll need to be filling to the 220 - 240 bar for a .25 caliber just to be clear.

In terms of what you're looking for I'd recommend the Air Arms S510 although it kind of maxes out around 35 fpe in either the XTRA FAC version or Ultimate Sporter from what you listed. You'll get more shots from the XTRA FAC but the stock adjustability on the Sporter may offset that. If you PM me your email, I'll send you a review I did on the XTRA FAC in .25 so you've got more information on it.

I don't recommend the Daystate Regal XL only because I think it may be too short for what you're looking for and shot count will be low in the .25 caliber. I have one in .22 and absolutely love it, but it is the shortest air rifle I own. Another really good .25 that behaves very closely to the XL is the Brocock Compatto. While the stocks are different, in terms of cocking mechanisms, magazine, accuracy and power they are very close. Note that the Compatto does limit out around the 33 - 35 fpe range based on pellet and has a limited shot string around 12 - 13 shots before pellet drop becomes an issue at any of the power levels but it is still one of my favorites.

As for the Marauder, don't sell it short. You can always put the money you'd save into a different trigger and stock but it is one of the most forgiving and adjustable .25 calibers I have in terms of what it likes to eat. This is nice because it gives you the flexibility to match the pellet to the situation instead of having to match the situation to the pellet (i.e., worried about pass through collateral damage, shot placement, energy at POI forcing closer range shots, etc.). I'm not sure about your laws and what you can tweak, but it is common for Marauders to be tuned >40 fpe with hammer spring replacement, stroke adjustment and opening of the valve.

All four of these air rifles are accurate out to 100 meters/110 yards once you find the right pellet(s). I routinely take chipmunk head shots at 80 - 90 yards with all three of the .25 calibers (S510, Compatto, and Marauder) but limit the Regal XL to 60 yards due to wind drift with the .22 pellets but would do the longer range shots without hesitation in .25.

I am concerned about your yardage requirements and I really don't recommend any .25 for fox at 50 yards even through I know they can get the job done when everything is just right. Keep in mind that a 35 fpe rated air rifle (25.4 grain pellet traveling at 790 fps) will only give you around 25 fpe at 50 yards and that's assuming you're actually at that speed. Based on the number of shots already taken and what the air cylinder was filled to, you will most likely be shooting closer to 31 or 31 fpe dropping your energy level at 50 yards down to 23 fpe on average. This may limit you to heart / lung shots where they will run off without a blood trail to follow so hopefully you'll be able to recover them as you just won't have the power at that distance to consistently penetrate the skull into the brain cavity. If you can move the shot into the 30 (26 - 28.8 fpe) - 40 ( 24.5 - 27 fpe) yard range, then it shouldn't be as big an issue, but if you need to stay at the 50 yard or slightly farther range then look at the .30s caliber instead. 

You can see some videos on the S510 and Compatto on my YouTube channel if you search for the "Wildlife Control Training Group."
 
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WCT - the fox at 50yds is actually just a hypothetical. While I have foxes on my card for this winter, I don't shoot foxes unless they are an actual nuisance. They remind me too much of dogs... There are other nuisance animals like weasels and pine martens that would be done at that range - the fox example I used because I find Americans don't have much experience with these animals, but I know if there's a chance it'd kill a fox at 50yds, a pine marten is toast. In my hunting, I don't necessarily over gun, but I'm always like to bring more than adequate lead.

As for the Daystate Huntsman, it is about 4-5in shorter than my Mauser, but I was assuming that was measured without a silencer (only with baffling). I'll look into that a bit more. I'm also not too worried about shot count, I don't mind refilling.

I've also been coming around to the Maurader a bit more, though it does seem like a bit of a budget gun to me. I'd rather spend a bit more and get something I'm super happy with, especially with the problems with running around and getting the rifle purchased, then registered, etc. 

I'll send you my email, I'm curious about that 510. I've got the option to by a 510 FAC Xtra in .22 but was thinking about passing on it because it seemed a bit underpowered for what I wanted. Does the 510 FAC Xtra also max out at 35ftlbs in .25 or is it a little bit better powered?

As for the refills though - this is actually a problem. I won't be able to refill tanks to higher than 230bar locally. Is this a huge concern?

Glen - I'd want a repeater. I want to be able to have the same type of fun I was having with my Marlin 60 back home :)
 
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I'm not sure the Daystate Huntsman is the right gun to get in 25 cal. The 22 is great but the 25 has a low shot count. I would stick to 22 for Daystate and Air Arms guns. 

If it has to be a rifle and not a bullpup, check out the Cricket carbine. They come with a barrel shroud / silencer so you won't need to add extra length. The Vulcan Tactic is worth a look if you can stand a hybrid. 

You mentioned you wanted a traditional firearm appearance / feel. Not sure if this excludes bottle guns but if it doesn't, the FX Royal 500 and Any of the RAW guns are very nice. 

I prefer a minimum of 45ft lb in 25 caliber guns - especially if 100 yard accuracy is the goal. They feel like mortar rounds to me when you launch heavy 25 cal pellets with only 35 or 40 ft lb. 

Also, if length is a priority, maybe you should check out some bullpups. Air guns really benefit from the extra barrel length for longer range hunting (100 yards is fairly long range for an air gun) and bullpups allow you to have that without feeling like a pole vault. 
 
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ajshoots"As for the Marauder, don’t sell it short. You can always put the money you’d save into a different trigger"

Why would anyone want to change the marauder trigger? The marauder trigger is a copy of one of the best airgun triggers made. As a matter of fact, the Uber expensive Thomas uses a Marauder based trigger group.
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Also, if I'm not mistaken the Marauder in .25 is over 40fpe out of the box. I know mine was, and I tuned it down to 38 fpe to increase its shot count and give me less than 5mils of drop at 100 yards with 25.4gr JSB, it also retains just over 23fpe at 100 yards.
 
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bill_dd97
ajshoots"As for the Marauder, don’t sell it short. You can always put the money you’d save into a different trigger"

Why would anyone want to change the marauder trigger? The marauder trigger is a copy of one of the best airgun triggers made. As a matter of fact, the Uber expensive Thomas uses a Marauder based trigger group.
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Also, if I'm not mistaken the Marauder in .25 is over 40fpe out of the box. I know mine was, and I tuned it down to 38 fpe to increase its shot count and give me less than 5mils of drop at 100 yards with 25.4gr JSB, it also retains just over 23fpe at 100 yards.
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Yes Bill, most .25 Marauders are right at 40fpe out of the box. I have owned 6 .25's and worked on tons more. My last .25 with one of my reworked valves and a different hammer spring gets 52 shots at 37fpe.
 
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"WCT_Editor"If you want to be in the >40 fpe area you'll need to get carbon fiber tanks or a mini compressor instead of a regular SCBA tank as you'll need to be filling to the 220 - 240 bar for a .25 caliber just to be clear.


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The SCBA tank IS a 4500 PSI fill and usually CF. I think you are thinking of SCUBA which is 3K or less.

Thurmond
 
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"bill_dd97"
"ajshoots""As for the Marauder, don’t sell it short. You can always put the money you’d save into a different trigger"

Why would anyone want to change the marauder trigger? The marauder trigger is a copy of one of the best airgun triggers made. As a matter of fact, the Uber expensive Thomas uses a Marauder based trigger group.
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Also, if I'm not mistaken the Marauder in .25 is over 40fpe out of the box. I know mine was, and I tuned it down to 38 fpe to increase its shot count and give me less than 5mils of drop at 100 yards with 25.4gr JSB, it also retains just over 23fpe at 100 yards.
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The number of mil dots it drops depends on what distance you zero it at. You could zero it at 100 yards and perceive no drop but there would still be one. More power produces a flatter trajectory. That just physics. I guarantee that the laws of physics are no different where you live...

The stock 25 Marauder has a low shot count. You can get more shots per fill in any gun by reducing the power but then you start to lose the benefit of getting a 25 instead of a 22. I wouldn't want a 25 with energy in the 30's unless I planned on keeping it to 50 yards or less. This applies double for a 100 yard hunting rifle.

That is not to say that the Marauder is a bad gun. I think it is the best entry level option. The thing I like most about it is that it is very well supported with aftermarket accessories and upgrades. This makes it a versatile and upgradable platform. You can easily buy ready machined barrel upgrades, new valves for more or less power and regulators etc. You can buy an adapter to use a bottle to get an improved shot count for the 25 or upgrade to 30 cal. There are also a number of aftermarket stocks from fine wood to AR compatible aluminum chassis systems and bullpup kits. I wish all air guns had that many options.

But.... the man is looking for something he will keep for many years and the Marauder is not the last air rifle you would ever buy. It's a good first pcp rifle but sooner or later most people (with the means to do so) would want to upgrade to something more refined. I remember working out how much it would cost for all the upgrades I would have wanted to make the Marauder perform like one of the more expensive guns and it wasn't much cheaper in the end.

If I was to buy a rifle I knew I had to keep and just be happy with (and not keep switching it out to try something new), I would want something that had all the features and power I wanted out of the box. I would want to treat myself to something nice. 

 
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My two cents first would be I've seen people take down foxes and raccoons with .22's its just a fact and shot placement being all important, i've seen a guy take down a RAM. Now as for 25's i love mine so as far as FAC keepers Cricket, Vulcan, Mutant, and FX don't see how you can go wrong. I love my 22 s510 but wouldn't recommend buying an unregulated gun to anyone anymore. Marauder is a proven platform and has been around for a while but i would consider it more on the No frills side of airguns, just my personal opinion. Happy hunting.
 
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