Useable shots per fill

[smith007]

So I am getting into the corners of this Hatsan Factor rifle (non regulated), and I remember a review before I bought it saying that I was gonna get 300 shots easy out of that giant 500cc bottle.

I mean sure, you can probably have 300 shots... but will they hit anything? I guess what I am reading is that for a ~500cc bottle (wont link other forums), people get 60-70 shots before they top off again (if they want to keep the accuracy/fps within that 3% that is).

Question 1. Is the shot count much better with a regulated piece? (might sell this and get the regulated instead).
Question 2. When do you top off again and why?

Guess I am gonna get a chronograph now to really dial in the sweet spots. And a bottle so I dont have to start the YH every time I dip 50bar.

 

[JimNM]

A regulator will not increase your shot count. Only by using less air will you get more shots. Less air is less power.

300 shots is a very tall order for a single fill. Notable exception is the Kral Super Duty that has 3 bottles built into the gun.

 

[ImpactX]

Having a reg does give you more shots and it doesn't. It all depends on your setting.

The reg and plenum which sit behind the reg will take up space in your airtube. So you will get less volume. But it will lower your pressure giving you more shots. If you set your reg too high you probably get less shot or get the same as without a reg. If you set your reg lower than you get more shots now.

Example. A marauder .22 with 215cc airtube without a reg get its best performance at about 2000 psi to 2600 psi. Get about 35 good shots. Anything above and below your spread fps will be too high. Now the same gun with a reg, you will lose 215cc and probably get 190cc now cause of the reg. But you can now set your reg pressure to 1800 psi. Now you can fill to 3000 psi and shot all the way down to 1800 psi and get 50 good shots.

 

[JimD]

Yes, I think you can count on more shots with reasonable velocity variation with a regulated gun. I have two regulated and one unregulated, a Prod. It has only a 66cc air chamber. I get about 30 shots with fairly small velocity variation out of a fill to 3000 psi. It has a Bstaley tune which is O'rings around the valve stem to reduce or eliminate hammer bounce. My regulated guns store a lot more air but also shoot heavier pellets faster than the little Prod. The best direct comparison I have seen is on the "sub 12 airgunner" youtube channel. He added a regulator to an Akela and more than doubled the shot count if I remember right.

I use inexpensive $30 chinese chronographs to tune my air rifles. I cannot imagine trying to tune the unregulated one in particular without a chronograph. You may find your initial velocity is actually lower with a fill to the guns rated pressure, for instance. That was true with the initial tune of my Prod. You need to know when the velocity falls off too. I still think it's necessary with the regulated guns but you can pretty much count on the velocity staying pretty constant until the chamber pressure falls below the regulator setting.

 

[Healthservices]

Also depends on what caliber. My uragan compact will do anywhere from 4 to 6 mags of 12 in 22 with a tiny 250 cc bottle. But my heavy breathing slug slinging .30 impact is pretty pitiful even with the humongous tank.

 

[dizzums]

yeah those people getting shot counts like that have backed the hammer spring way off and pop paper targets at 10ft in their basement .. if you need performance in the field you dont worry about shot count, you need a couple of mags worth and you want a light compact gun .. not some hideous clownshow contraption with a 2 foot bottle hanging off the front for 1000 shots, a 5lb scope and a bipod for a total gun weight of 25lbs lol ... regs are generally for targeting to .. so it depends what you do and what you like ... if your after game or pests you dont want or need all that, you fill to the ideal pressure and refilll before it tapers off so you keep your range, stable trajectory and power .. your looking for one shot kills .... so its two camps basically and you can of course combine some things and compromise to tailor to your exact usage ...

 

[L.Leon]

What I like about my regulated PCPs is just that, that they are regulated. In theory every shot gets the same amount of air. Shot count is secondary to me. I love the fact that I can do partial fills on a regulated PCP and still get the consistency and accuracy that I expect. Again shot count being secondary. If I'm plinking then I want a full fill on my regulated PCP, if pesting? As long as the pressure in the bottle or cylinder is above the regulator set point, I'm good to go. 

 

[Franklink]

You mention 300 shots per fill, there are guns capable of that. 

I was able to mess with the programing of an otherwise bone stock Red Wolf Standard in .22 to make one of the three power levels into a 300+ shots per fill "tune". It was actually about 330 shots per fill with JSB 14.35s at just under 800fps, so 19ish fpe. Very cool to shoot a large portion of a 500count tin of pellets between fills. 

 

[corny]

In most cases, adding a regulator will give you more “usable” shots per fill.

especially on Hatsans as they typically shoot hot from the factory. 

 

[elh0102]

You mention 300 shots per fill, there are guns capable of that. 

I was able to mess with the programing of an otherwise bone stock Red Wolf Standard in .22 to make one of the three power levels into a 300+ shots per fill "tune". It was actually about 330 shots per fill with JSB 14.35s at just under 800fps, so 19ish fpe. Very cool to shoot a large portion of a 500count tin of pellets between fills.

I just checked my Low setting on my stock Red Wold standard .22. It's about 750 fps with the 15.9 JSB, so the power is about identical to yours. You've saved me the trouble of counting the shots, and I knew it was huge. 

 

[Franklink]

You mention 300 shots per fill, there are guns capable of that. 

I was able to mess with the programing of an otherwise bone stock Red Wolf Standard in .22 to make one of the three power levels into a 300+ shots per fill "tune". It was actually about 330 shots per fill with JSB 14.35s at just under 800fps, so 19ish fpe. Very cool to shoot a large portion of a 500count tin of pellets between fills.

I just checked my Low setting on my stock Red Wold standard .22. It's about 750 fps with the 15.9 JSB, so the power is about identical to yours. You've saved me the trouble of counting the shots, and I knew it was huge.

Sounds like yours is probably the 1st gen board so since we're likely talking apples and oranges, I wouldn't recommend making any assumptions. The Standard I was playing with had the 2nd gen GCU and Low as it came to me was more like 30fpe if I remember right. Factory Low was perfect for the JSB 18.1s and too fast for the 14.35s. 

Im not familiar with the 1st gen but it took considerable tweaking with the programmer to get an ES down to within about 20fps over those 330 shots for the power level I made. 

 

[darylm]

I’m guessing the 300 shots per fill number you saw was for the sub 12 ft/lbs version, not the full power one……. And yes, always go with a regulator.

 

[elh0102]

Yes, I assume mine is the first generation board. Just did a chrono run, and the Low setting is actually 740 fps with the 16, and very consistent, perfect for the back yard. I don't know if the air consumption is linear as pressure decreases, but for 25 shots it was almost exactly 2 shots per bar, with pressure going from 197 to 184 bar.

 

[bconlon]

Pretty sure southern gunner said in his initial impressions of the vulcan 3 700mm in .22 that he was getting 277 shots at 43 foot pounds which is pretty hard hitting and an insane shots per fill for that kind of power the gun doesn't have a double bottle or anything either.

 

[smith007]

Good info, thanks guys, will get the chronograph and work from there.