Umarex Origin POI shift issues

[Cajunchuck]

Decided to take a break from powder burners and ordered a new Umarex Origin in .22 a couple weeks ago. I have been super happy with it so far except for one very annoying issue. Dramatic point of impact shifts from day to day. I know this issue is well-known but I am wondering if anyone has found a definite solution? I have removed the shroud and front pic rail and snugged up/lock tited all barrel screws. My gun is the newer version with the threaded shroud and plastic barrel stabilizer at the muzzle. I have also used a piece of weed whacker string to help tighten up the barrel band. Still having maddening changes in poi. Get her dead-nuts zeroed one afternoon and could miss a barn the next day. I've about had it. I will sell it for something better in a second if it cannot be fixed. I am wondering if the DonnyFL adapter he sells for the Avenger/Origin would be a worthwhile possibility? I refuse to accept that I'll have to re-zero the gun every time I take it out of the safe! Any help appreciated!

Also would like to add that any advice along the lines of "don't let the shroud/barrel touch anything" is unacceptable to me. This is a working tool for me and I cannot go around treating it like a baby.

 

[tcarlson777]

I had the same problem with my Origin and finally just sold it. Tried many of the things that you have and also polished the barrel. I hope you can figure it out. They are nice rifles for the money, but POI shifts are a deal breaker. I had no luck with the DonnyFL adapter. It was the last thing that I tried before selling it.

 

[Cajunchuck]

One possibility I’ve been contemplating is the chance that the little barrel centering device’s (sorry I don’t know the actual name lol) o rings may be sticking to the shroud and causing unwanted shifts in the barrel. I’m going to pull the shroud tonight and really slather that area with silicone grease. Otherwise I don’t know what else to try.

 

[darylm]

POI shifts are usually a function of the scope, not the rifle.

 

[jmohme]

POI shifts are usually a function of the scope, not the rifle.

Probably true, but I have had two Origins. The first one was very accurate and consistent. The second one had the same problem as the OP brings up. This is with the same scope.
I have since moved that scope to my TalonP and it is spot on.

The Origin suffers from a very poorly secured and flimsy barrel shroud.
The newest origin has an internal baffle that slips over the barrel as well as threading into the shroud. On the surface, this sounds like a good idea, but any movement of the shroud, also moves the barrel.
I added two barrel bands to mine, and while still not as good as my first Origin,these bands made a huge difference.

 

[darylm]

Are there aftermarket parts that can replace the factory shroud components on the Origin? I know that for my Avenger I bought an upgraded shroud boss from Bison Workshop that stiffened up the shroud and helped with accuracy.

 

[Cajunchuck]

For those interested, the scope is a new Athlon FFP 4-14x44 mounted in aluminum Leupold rings. Torqued with a Fat Wrench. I have decades of scope mounting experience on precision powder burners so any sort of mounting issue is unlikely.

 

[Cajunchuck]

I may also try backing off on the threaded muzzle cap.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

A friend did this and said ot helped ..

Took 2 dowls seems like 4-6" long. Set on each side bedded between the shroud and tube and black yaped them in place firm.. wish i had picture.

Think of the 2 dowles as / like a long barrel band . When i seen it i thought ya supports up and down and side movment..

Thing i dont recall if he put a shim /spacer between the tube and shroud to keep them from mashing together as well .

( Seems like you could ?)

The dowl size looked about aa/aaa battery size roundness. Heck try them to start...

If you want a drawing of this ill do my best if my crayons aint all broken.

Like below ...

 

[Cajunchuck]

I understand but it would kinda ruin the esthetics of the gun. I can’t imagine more haven’t fought with this or that there seems to be no real solution. Guess I deserve it for trying to get off cheap. Now I’m looking at FXs lol.

 

[Cajunchuck]

We’ll I broke it down and found something pretty interesting. The boss the shroud threads into (newer version) has a set screw that I had been able to snug down quite a bit last week. It was now pretty much what I would consider “loose” and was pulling away from the face of the receiver. I removed the set screw, cleaned it off well with alcohol, and replaced it while holding the entire boss against the receiver, something I didn’t do last time. I’ll let the lock tite set up overnight and try it tomorrow. Wish me luck.

 

[tcarlson777]

Another suggestion is to shoot the gun w/o the shroud. When my Origin was shifting POIs I never tried that step. About 90% of the POI shift posts on here will point you to a shroud issue, and that you should use a barrel band. However, if the barrel is junk, that won't help. I recently bought a Benji Marauder and was having POI shifts and poor groups. Started reading tons of posts about the shroud, and then I noticed a comment from a very knowledgeable guy on here, I think his handle is @Motorhead , that said to shoot the gun w/o the shroud and see how it groups. I shot my M-Rod w/o the shroud and it only took two shots at 20-yards to know the barrel was the problem (WARNING: This will be very loud. Go to the country). Your Origin should shoot into the same hole at 10-yards with a naked barrel. If it doesn't, I suggest contacting Umarex to ask for a warranty claim and see if they will send you a new barrel. I just installed the new barrel in my M-rod this morning and it is now a total tack driver. Even if Umarex wants you to buy the barrel, that could be a cheap fix. It actually might be cheaper to buy a new barrel from them than to ship it back to them for warranty repair. The service rep instantly knew my barrel was junk when I told him about shooting it w/o the shroud. Again, good luck, these rifles can drive you nuts when they don't perform.

We're all rooting for you that you figure it out!

 

[Hateful McNasty]

I understand but it would kinda ruin the esthetics of the gun. I can’t imagine more haven’t fought with this or that there seems to be no real solution. Guess I deserve it for trying to get off cheap. Now I’m looking at FXs lol.

What good is that if it don't shoot stright ... Is it enteted in a beauty contest ?

Pick your poison of what you need from it. Seems like its not getting both..

Jokes aside. I got guns woth plastic shrouded barrels in springers and poi change is constant bs steel shrouded or stright barreled.

I found the temperature is the cause.imho.

The plastic throughout the day heats and cools and the plastic expands snd contracts as things do heated and cooled and bends/warps the shroud and pulls the soda straw barrel in it and pulls it off ever so slightly.

Anyway thats what i kinda see and guess from mine.

Saddly shrouded seems to be the cheap yrend for manufacures now vs a solid steel barrel..

 

[jmohme]

What good is that if it don't shoot stright ... Is it enteted in a beauty contest ?

Pick your poison of what you need from it. Seems like its not getting both..

Jokes aside. I got guns woth plastic shrouded barrels in springers and poi change is constant bs steel shrouded or stright barreled.

I found the temperature is the cause.imho.

The plastic throughout the day heats and cools and the plastic expands snd contracts as things do heated and cooled and bends/warps the shroud and pulls the soda straw barrel in it and pulls it off ever so slightly.

Anyway thats what i kinda see and guess from mine.

Saddly shrouded seems to be the cheap yrend for manufacures now vs a solid steel barrel..

In most cases, the shroud is not a means of saving money in production. It is usually about quieting down the gun.
The "soda straw" barrel is a factor for certain though.

Regarding temperature being the culprit. I don't see that as a cause in my Origin. Both my first and second Origins have metal shrouds. The fist one was extremely accurate and consistent, The second one, not so much regardless of ambient temperature or shooting in the shade vs in direct sunlight.
A plastic barrel band with a bolts to snug it to the air tube with an additional slip on band near the muzzle stabilized mine well enough to make it much more consitant.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Ya, the metal shrouded guns stay pretty true of mine .. the plastic not so..

All you kinda see around on that issue looks like luck of the draw comes in play alot i guess. Ol_pcp they seem to like having there barrels haning out there with no support at any pricing or brand.. thin barrle pretty much hanging off the berach by orings and set screw.lol

Anyway that above i guess worked on the buddies origin . He gave up or it's good . Dont hear him complaining anymore aftre that.. who onows i just throw it out there to concider to try and see. I guess use several bands and string them out every inch of barrel/ shroud..

Good luck

 

[Cajunchuck]

I may have made a little improvement with the tweak I did last night. I've had it in and out of the safe twice now with some normal everyday handling thrown in and so far it has held POI. I won't call it a success just yet until I test it further but so far I can say it is a big improvement. The rear shroud boss had even pushed forward on the barrel that there was probably at least an 1/8 inch gap between it and the face of the receiver. Hopefully the lock tite will keep it snug. As for the groups, that is not an issue. They've been excellent so far with everything I've tried. Going to do some more shooting later today after it cools down a little. I'll report back with findings!

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Good deal . Maybe you found the key to success .. im rooting for ya. I prefer to read good shots then read issues..

Fingers crossed..

 

[Cajunchuck]

For anyone fighting this issue with their Origin this may be a possible fix. Went out at dusk and it shot right where it was with the prior session. I’m happy. We’ll see if it’s a long term fix though.

 

[HenryK]

I may be a little late to the game here.....but there are many things that can affect POI on a rifle......some of them are mentioned above.....assuming that the quality of the Umarex Origin is good out of the box...... proper optics mounting with a good quality scope is a must. There is actually quite a bit of science to mounting a scope and a torque screwdriver is 100% needed.

I have never really looked at how the Origin is bedded but on a standard rifle the bedding screw(s) and barrel band also have torques and an order on how you adjust them.

There is also something called rifle harmonics.....and how rigidity of a stock plays an important factor in repeat accuracy. Many rifle shooters that buy $250 Savage rifles from Walmart epoxy pour into the open spaces of the factory plastic stock. Tons of videos about turning cheap rifles into 1.25 MOA shooters on a budget.

Lastly....this is the one that affects my shooting the most......is where you place your finger on the trigger. I have a tendency to creep up into the joint of my trigger finger.....that has a HUGE impact on repeatable accuracy

HK

 

[tvicuna]

In most cases, the shroud is not a means of saving money in production. It is usually about quieting down the gun.
The "soda straw" barrel is a factor for certain though.

Regarding temperature being the culprit. I don't see that as a cause in my Origin. Both my first and second Origins have metal shrouds. The fist one was extremely accurate and consistent, The second one, not so much regardless of ambient temperature or shooting in the shade vs in direct sunlight.
A plastic barrel band with a bolts to snug it to the air tube with an additional slip on band near the muzzle stabilized mine well enough to make it much more consitant.

View attachment 277862

In most cases, the shroud is not a means of saving money in production. It is usually about quieting down the gun.
The "soda straw" barrel is a factor for certain though.

Regarding temperature being the culprit. I don't see that as a cause in my Origin. Both my first and second Origins have metal shrouds. The fist one was extremely accurate and consistent, The second one, not so much regardless of ambient temperature or shooting in the shade vs in direct sunlight.
A plastic barrel band with a bolts to snug it to the air tube with an additional slip on band near the muzzle stabilized mine well enough to make it much more consitant.

View attachment 277862

Hi. Where did you buy this barrel band?