How are they working now after being out for about a yr....any leaks,accuracy issues? Just curious because I might revisit this airgun down the road .
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Umarex gaunlet owners ....
- Thread starter rwsmike
- Start date
Over time the accuracy of my .22 cal.Gauntlet has deteriorated. Explained below is the testing I have done and what happened.
Suggestions on a fix would be appreciated. Has anyone else had this experience with their Umarex Gauntlet ?
When my Gauntlet was new, April 2018, the velocity was checked by chronograph and data recorded. In April the Gauntlet .22
average of 790 ft/sec. velocity spread was 7 ft/sec. with a std. dev. of 2 using JSB 18.13 pellets, other pellets were also tested with
similar results (JSB 15.89 gr. 827 ft/sec. and velocity spread of 9 ft/sec. and H&N. Barracuda Match 21.4 gr. 736 ft/sec. with velocity
spread 6 ft/sec.). I was happy with these results. Since the Gauntlet is not provided with a hammer spring adjustment nothing has
been adjusted or taken apart other than a trigger adjustment requiring removal of the air-tank and stock. The Gauntlet has been mostly
shot indoors and has not been subjected to dirty conditions, and I have regularly cleaned the barrel. With the accuracy results shot in
the beginning I don't believe burrs are an issue. After shooting over 3,000+ pellets over the last 5 months, I again checked velocity with
a Chronograph at an average of 828 ft/sec. with a velocity spread over 70 ft./sec. still shooting JSB 18.13 pellets because accuracy
deteriorated, WHY? - Danny
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d_boom,
Sounds like the reg is acting up. Maybe put in a Huma regulator. Everyone else is doing it. Including big name companies.
Sounds like the reg is acting up. Maybe put in a Huma regulator. Everyone else is doing it. Including big name companies.
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I've got about one sleeve fired though my .177 w/out mechanical issue. Cocks with one finger & thumb , never a leak.
Accuracy is very good indeed. It did fall off a while back and I leaned something about the .177 barrel. At least on this one with the barrel removed and pointing down if you insert a pellet it free falls past the transfer port where it then hit's a RIDGE ( do they have Mountains in airgun barrels ?) . No good way to see it at our house but you couldn't miss it pushing pellets. Sorry about my guesstimates but that ridge seemed almost a finger nail think - feeling around w/dental tools & such- . I've no idea how it shot so well all along. the barrel was off and I replace oring I stuck the breech end in a jar of solvent & cleaned well then used rubber tips & mothers polish to transition the ridge.
All is well again with grouping.
Huma? I dont really think that applies to the Gauntlet but even if it did Ninja regulators are outstanding and very easy to rebuild if needed. Just surf up the ninja reg rebuild video ( from the factory) and even with little experience it is a simple straightforward job ( but for safety you need a psi checker). And it seems most every paintball shop in the U.S. can rebuild one cheap in just a few minutes.
I have every intention of grabbing a .25 when they hit the U.S. ( labels have been seen so maybe the 1st of ??? ) .
John
Accuracy is very good indeed. It did fall off a while back and I leaned something about the .177 barrel. At least on this one with the barrel removed and pointing down if you insert a pellet it free falls past the transfer port where it then hit's a RIDGE ( do they have Mountains in airgun barrels ?) . No good way to see it at our house but you couldn't miss it pushing pellets. Sorry about my guesstimates but that ridge seemed almost a finger nail think - feeling around w/dental tools & such- . I've no idea how it shot so well all along. the barrel was off and I replace oring I stuck the breech end in a jar of solvent & cleaned well then used rubber tips & mothers polish to transition the ridge.
All is well again with grouping.
Huma? I dont really think that applies to the Gauntlet but even if it did Ninja regulators are outstanding and very easy to rebuild if needed. Just surf up the ninja reg rebuild video ( from the factory) and even with little experience it is a simple straightforward job ( but for safety you need a psi checker). And it seems most every paintball shop in the U.S. can rebuild one cheap in just a few minutes.
I have every intention of grabbing a .25 when they hit the U.S. ( labels have been seen so maybe the 1st of ??? ) .
John
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After swabbing the barrel with JB bore compound and heavily increasing the spring tension on the spring that goes between the internal plastic moderator and the barrel, by adding another spring in series with the factory original. Then adding a Jefferson State spring kit to tone down hammer bounce and polishing all trigger internals to get a top shelf single stage trigger pull my 177 Gauntlet is nearly as accurate as the Daystate Wolverine R.
There is no way a cheap barrel, like on the Gauntlet can match the quality of a Lothar Walther barrel, but with the luck of the draw may get it close. I may have just gotten lucky.
The barrel on that thing moves around worse that a fire hose under full pressure and adding that spring tightens things up and puts pressure between the barrel and the shroud keeping them locked fast and straight.
In addition, I also added flat stock from the body of the receiver to the shroud to aid in holding it fast at the end that secures the shroud in place. This mod is not pretty by any means but neither is the gun in general and anything that can be done to make it a better shooter works for me.
The flat stock was JB Welded to the receiver after roughing up both surfaces and it hasn't broken free since being done. The short screws were drilled, tapped and countersunk in place through the shroud as not to touch the barrel.
There is no way a cheap barrel, like on the Gauntlet can match the quality of a Lothar Walther barrel, but with the luck of the draw may get it close. I may have just gotten lucky.
The barrel on that thing moves around worse that a fire hose under full pressure and adding that spring tightens things up and puts pressure between the barrel and the shroud keeping them locked fast and straight.
In addition, I also added flat stock from the body of the receiver to the shroud to aid in holding it fast at the end that secures the shroud in place. This mod is not pretty by any means but neither is the gun in general and anything that can be done to make it a better shooter works for me.
The flat stock was JB Welded to the receiver after roughing up both surfaces and it hasn't broken free since being done. The short screws were drilled, tapped and countersunk in place through the shroud as not to touch the barrel.
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@d_boom, I agree with spysir regarding the Ninja regulator. I have several in everyday use and it is not uncommon to hold an ES around 1% with a good tune and quality pellets. Clearly they have seals and those can go bad in any regulator but I get the sense you are experiencing erratic velocities—meaning it wanders up and down by 30fps or more from one shot to the next. If so, that’s unlikely to be the regulator.
Here are some common (and not-so-common) causes of erratic velocity:
1. Inconsistent hammer strike – The most common cause in my experience and from reading others’ experiences. If it sometimes takes noticeably more force to cock it than other times, suspect this cause. If it’s not obvious, that may still be the problem but you’ll have to open it up and inspect it, move it by hand, etc. Deburring and smoothing the hammer and the tube and applying some light oil will do wonders. Some prefer a dry lube like graphite burnished onto the parts.
2. Failing bolt O-ring (or breech O-ring in the case of mag-fed) – before it blows completely out and you find your ears ringing, it may linger around with a nick or a worn spot, therefore it won’t seal consistently when the pressure pulse hits it. A tissue draped over the area can often help identify it.
3. Failing transfer port seal – same deal as #2
4. Sear drag – this shouldn’t occur with the Gauntlet because it is a drop sear type
5. Bent valve stem – not very common but it happens.
Having said all that, if I didn’t understand the symptom correctly, give us some more details or post the string so we can help.
Here are some common (and not-so-common) causes of erratic velocity:
1. Inconsistent hammer strike – The most common cause in my experience and from reading others’ experiences. If it sometimes takes noticeably more force to cock it than other times, suspect this cause. If it’s not obvious, that may still be the problem but you’ll have to open it up and inspect it, move it by hand, etc. Deburring and smoothing the hammer and the tube and applying some light oil will do wonders. Some prefer a dry lube like graphite burnished onto the parts.
2. Failing bolt O-ring (or breech O-ring in the case of mag-fed) – before it blows completely out and you find your ears ringing, it may linger around with a nick or a worn spot, therefore it won’t seal consistently when the pressure pulse hits it. A tissue draped over the area can often help identify it.
3. Failing transfer port seal – same deal as #2
4. Sear drag – this shouldn’t occur with the Gauntlet because it is a drop sear type
5. Bent valve stem – not very common but it happens.
Having said all that, if I didn’t understand the symptom correctly, give us some more details or post the string so we can help.
Upvote 0
Hajimoto
Member
I have put my .22 Umarex Gauntlet through the ringer and have come to the conclusion that a leading cause of performance issues with the Gauntlet is lubrication. The corrosion protection in and on the parts are not that great and over time oxidation becomes an issue. I have taken apart over 250 Gauntlets and in about 40% of them right out of the box new, had already developed rust on the barrels, hammer and hammer slide area of the tube. So be sure to keep some lubrication on all the metal parts, be sure to keep plenty of desiccant packs in your gun bag/case to eat up moisture.
In almost every case of inconsistent power or cocking, the hammer, hammer spring alignment or lack of lubrication were the causes. The hammer on the Gauntlet has a pocket that runs almost the entire length of the hammer and is designed to accept the hammer spring. The ID of the pocket is very close to that of OD of the spring so it does not take much to introduce significant drag. The inside of this pocket is not a smooth polished surface and sometimes the machining grooves will bind up the spring that is trying to slide into the pocket during cocking. This causes wear, friction and in some cases, will not allow the rifle to be cocked at all.
During these times of difficult cocking is where the average person imparts more and more energy onto the parts and while doing so cycles the bolt back and forth and they do not realize they are feeding multiple pellets into the barrel which then introduces another set of problems.
Two of my most shared pieces of advise when it comes to the Gauntlet issues are:
In almost every case of inconsistent power or cocking, the hammer, hammer spring alignment or lack of lubrication were the causes. The hammer on the Gauntlet has a pocket that runs almost the entire length of the hammer and is designed to accept the hammer spring. The ID of the pocket is very close to that of OD of the spring so it does not take much to introduce significant drag. The inside of this pocket is not a smooth polished surface and sometimes the machining grooves will bind up the spring that is trying to slide into the pocket during cocking. This causes wear, friction and in some cases, will not allow the rifle to be cocked at all.
During these times of difficult cocking is where the average person imparts more and more energy onto the parts and while doing so cycles the bolt back and forth and they do not realize they are feeding multiple pellets into the barrel which then introduces another set of problems.
Two of my most shared pieces of advise when it comes to the Gauntlet issues are:
- Keep rifle lubricated and free of moisture inside and out.
- If there is any issue cocking, place the bolt in full battery, remove the magazine and then investigate with the mag removed. Fire the rifle without the mag to reset the cycle.
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If you truly want to tinker and improve the function of the rifle, disassemble the entire rifle, sand smooth and polish all interacting parts, reblue everything, relube the rifle and watch the difference in operation and performance. It is critical to understand the difference between sanding and polishing and removing so much material that you destroy the functional tolerances of the interacting parts. I am talking about applying the finishing touches to the rough grooves and machined surfaces typically is achieved through wear or what breaking in will do over 1000's of cycles but the person is doing this by hand in a deliberate and focused execution of the process.
I am not saying anything new here just answering a very specific question to a very specific rifle.
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Sounds like it all comes down to fit and finish. What finish do you get in a $300 gun? If you want a .177, they are on sale at Airgun Depot for $239 at the moment. .22 are still $300.
Years ago, when I worked in Retail, and saw the product cost sheets (K-Mart when it was king of the discount hill, to show how far back this goes) -
K-Mart imported a lot of Chinese products, like Harbor Freight does now. K-Mart, at the time doubled the wholesale price, so if a hydraulic jack sold for $8 (this was nearly 40 years ago), K-Mart paid $4. The $4 profit covered overhead like the building, lights, shipping, and my rather modest wages at $3,75 per hour, and everything else.
Now, to the point. If Airgun Depot sells the Gauntlet for $300, it shouldn't cost more than $150, maybe $200 shipped and delivered to their warehouse (in my opinion, unless there's a super skinny margin on this stuff like groceries, but I think the margins are ok). Even if the cost is $250, can you imagine making all those precision parts, getting it assembled, shipped half way around the world (quite literally) and in your hands with parts that will withstand 3000 PSI pressure for the $150 to $250 the cost might be?
Not much time for finish work on those factories!
In those factories, each squirt of oil or grease is measured, because the profit margins are that thin! Every "o" ring, and washer are counted. It's just that tight!
It's not good, it's not bad, it's just the way it is.
If you have or intend to buy a Gauntlet, do take Hajimoto's advice, and be prepared to do a bit of work on the internals. You'll probably end up with a nice gun, and for a low price plus a little sweat equity!
Now, we'll see if the Fortitude is any different. . . . . . . . . . . . .
Years ago, when I worked in Retail, and saw the product cost sheets (K-Mart when it was king of the discount hill, to show how far back this goes) -
K-Mart imported a lot of Chinese products, like Harbor Freight does now. K-Mart, at the time doubled the wholesale price, so if a hydraulic jack sold for $8 (this was nearly 40 years ago), K-Mart paid $4. The $4 profit covered overhead like the building, lights, shipping, and my rather modest wages at $3,75 per hour, and everything else.
Now, to the point. If Airgun Depot sells the Gauntlet for $300, it shouldn't cost more than $150, maybe $200 shipped and delivered to their warehouse (in my opinion, unless there's a super skinny margin on this stuff like groceries, but I think the margins are ok). Even if the cost is $250, can you imagine making all those precision parts, getting it assembled, shipped half way around the world (quite literally) and in your hands with parts that will withstand 3000 PSI pressure for the $150 to $250 the cost might be?
Not much time for finish work on those factories!
In those factories, each squirt of oil or grease is measured, because the profit margins are that thin! Every "o" ring, and washer are counted. It's just that tight!
It's not good, it's not bad, it's just the way it is.
If you have or intend to buy a Gauntlet, do take Hajimoto's advice, and be prepared to do a bit of work on the internals. You'll probably end up with a nice gun, and for a low price plus a little sweat equity!
Now, we'll see if the Fortitude is any different. . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Thanks for the list of 5 causes of erratic velocities. Tried the tissue over the bolt and fired, tissue moved, so I looked at
the "O" ring on the bolt, worn flat on top! When my Gauntlet .22 was new the velocity only varied 6 ft/sec over 10 shots,
I rechecked these results 3 time and each time the velocity variation was only 6 ft/sec. (used JSB 18.13 gr. pellets). I
contacted Umarex for a replacement "O", they wanted me to ship my Gauntlet back to them. I insisted that all I needed
was the "O" ring for the bolt, so they are shipping one to me at NO CHARGE. If replacing this O ring on the bolt restores
the Gauntlet's accuracy I will be happy!
the "O" ring on the bolt, worn flat on top! When my Gauntlet .22 was new the velocity only varied 6 ft/sec over 10 shots,
I rechecked these results 3 time and each time the velocity variation was only 6 ft/sec. (used JSB 18.13 gr. pellets). I
contacted Umarex for a replacement "O", they wanted me to ship my Gauntlet back to them. I insisted that all I needed
was the "O" ring for the bolt, so they are shipping one to me at NO CHARGE. If replacing this O ring on the bolt restores
the Gauntlet's accuracy I will be happy!
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Knowing what I know, your better off with the JSA modification. Little harder than drop in but not that hard.
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For around $40.00 you could get several hammer springs, a spring guide is super easy to make or mod. No need for an adjustable end cap if using the correct spring.
It is always easier to buy "the right spring" from a , dealer but that spring will only be optimum for one tune. If you want higher/lower operating psi or more shots or more power all require different springs. Using an adjuster does allow cheating a bit but you often come out ahead simply tuning for desired result and saving money.
dboom, you might try pulling your barrel and see if the step down -throat of bore- has a crazy large ridge. Mine was very accurate then lost it due to lead build up at that spot. I polished it out with mothers polish, might have used something a little more agressive if I'd had it on hand.
John
It is always easier to buy "the right spring" from a , dealer but that spring will only be optimum for one tune. If you want higher/lower operating psi or more shots or more power all require different springs. Using an adjuster does allow cheating a bit but you often come out ahead simply tuning for desired result and saving money.
dboom, you might try pulling your barrel and see if the step down -throat of bore- has a crazy large ridge. Mine was very accurate then lost it due to lead build up at that spot. I polished it out with mothers polish, might have used something a little more agressive if I'd had it on hand.
John
Upvote 0