Tuning Tuned? What exactly does that mean to you?

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Centercut

Centercut

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Jun 9, 2017
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I'm reading a lot of recent posts where members are either having their PCP "tuned" or getting a new one that has been "tuned" by the dealer. I'm wondering what they think that means, especially the Newby's? I kinda get the impression that most of the time "tuned" just means reg. and HST adjusted for a specific pellet. I.e., "I just got my new PCP from John Doe and he "tuned" it for me"... 

For some of us it might mean something different... When I hear "tuned", I imagine the gun being more than just adjusted with the two (or three) available adjustments. I.e., example from a recent post about power "tuning" a .22 Cricket Carbine, the "tune" included:

Installed Huma reg., ported the firing-valve, ported action port & ported barrel port. Opened the valve return spring adjuster for max flow, installed poppet with Ti valve-stem shaped for max flow, installed a power plenum, cut a custom hammer spring (shaped and ground ends), milled DonnyFL barrel adapter, made an extension for the adapter and secured CF tube over this extension, polished leade, crown and the bore as well as bored barrel band for free float. Adjusted for maximum accuracy and efficiency. Tested accuracy by shooting groups at xx yards. Shot strings and target provided.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/black-betty-power-tuned-22-cricket-carbine/?referrer=1

This would be an extreme example since not all tunes are as extensive as some of the ones Derrick @zx10wall does...

So when you hear that the gun has been "tuned", what does it mean to you?

Please, no trolling, its getting kinda old... Constructive comments always appreciated but I don't need to hear how I'm ignorant or don't know what I'm talking about... Feel free to summon the courage to PM me if that's how you feel and we can chat...
 
Good subject, because I see some pretty vague definitions of tunes being sold.

I see this varying on different guns as some need more than others. But I agree it should not be just a couple adjustments. I guess, I would like to see a list of things performed on the gun, the test results and the price. Some guys are great at this and yet others it is like a black art. I like to know what I am getting and for what cost.
 
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In the online community, I've always seen it used for anything and everything on the spectrum you covered. To that we can add something that seeks to change nothing in terms of performance, like a springer tune to reduce buzz and vibration to make it more enjoyable to use. 

Therefore I use the term similarly broadly. I don't think we need a purity test for it. Not that I think you are advocating for it, however I do occasionally see conversations where one party is thinking something at the opposite end of the spectrum. It's up to the individual parties to share the details if it is deemed helpful to carry the discussion.
 
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My PCP tunes furthermore include the trigger and the silencer (or baffled shroud). As well as counteracting hammer bounce with a lighter hammer and an SSG or dual spring. In some cases I furthermore put on a weaver rail for a bipod. Plus adjust the placement of the action into the stock sometimes for a perfect fit.

But I try to stay away from replacing the valve stem or poppet. Stopping short of reinventing the entire gun ...

🐦
 
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I’m definitely no expert here but consider myself a little bit more than a newbie. To me tuning would be adjusting the rifle to get you the power and accuracy that you’re looking for. Whether it’s the regulator, hammer spring or trigger. But I can understand that changing or adding a few parts to fit your needs could also be classified as tuning. When you tune up your Car ,You’re just Changing plugs and wires and may be doing a computer tune. If it’s an older car you Would be putting points and setting the timing And also adjusting the carburetor. So you’re just working with what you already have. So I can see how It can mean different things for different people.
 
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I think most people here on AGN use “tune” in terms of either accuracy, efficiency, velocity, harmonics, or the proper combination of all of them...When the gun is dialed in and shooting it’s best. I don’t really like the terminology, “harmonically tuned” “accuracy tuned” or “velocity tuned” because I think velocity, harmonics and accuracy all go hand in hand and are all necessary parts of the process for properly “tuning” an air gun. When Derrick, Scott and some of the others work their magic, yes I see that as tuning but also so much more than that. Like I said, I think most people on AGN use “tuned” to describe a gun that is dialed in and shooting great.

Stoti
 
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The power of clear communication. How I use a word does not mean that is the only way to use it. Does that make anyone right or wrong?

To have a gun tuned by the seller, especially for a new guy, how I understand it -is that those changes would normally be a challenge to the skill level of that new guy. I don't have any tools for metal work, so any machine work is beyond me. I can fiddle with springs and screws, and I can mess up a peanut butter sandwich.

A "tune" in my diction is any particular set of parameters. A stock "tune", an accuracy "tune", a speed ", tune"...simply different places on the adjustment continum. A good tune or a bad tune? That is a matter of expectations, and those are entirely at the discretion of guy making those claims.




 
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Great question.

As a transitive verb: Tune; To bring into harmony. Adjust for precise functioning. To make more precise, intense, or effective. Adjust with respect to resonance at a particular frequency.

As stated in previous posts, "tuned" is used very broadly like the examples Centercut and nervoustrig gave.

"Tune" is typically denoting a change has been made to improve the users experience beyond original factory specifications. This "tuned" spectrum has no real boundaries, being defined by the user to share and hopefully elicit meaningful conversation.



In the online community, I've always seen it used for anything and everything on the spectrum you covered. To that we can add something that seeks to change nothing in terms of performance, like a springer tune to reduce buzz and vibration to make it more enjoyable to use. 

Therefore I use the term similarly broadly. I don't think we need a purity test for it. Not that I think you are advocating for it, however I do occasionally see conversations where one party is thinking something at the opposite end of the spectrum. It's up to the individual parties to share the details if it is deemed helpful to carry the discussion.
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I'm reading a lot of recent posts where members are either having their PCP "tuned" or getting a new one that has been "tuned" by the dealer. I'm wondering what they think that means, especially the Newby's? I kinda get the impression that most of the time "tuned" just means reg. and HST adjusted for a specific pellet. I.e., "I just got my new PCP from John Doe and he "tuned" it for me"... 

For some of us it might mean something different... When I hear "tuned", I imagine the gun being more than just adjusted with the two (or three) available adjustments. I.e., example from a recent post about power "tuning" a .22 Cricket Carbine, the "tune" included:

Installed Huma reg., ported the firing-valve, ported action port & ported barrel port. Opened the valve return spring adjuster for max flow, installed poppet with Ti valve-stem shaped for max flow, installed a power plenum, cut a custom hammer spring (shaped and ground ends), milled DonnyFL barrel adapter, made an extension for the adapter and secured CF tube over this extension, polished leade, crown and the bore as well as bored barrel band for free float. Adjusted for maximum accuracy and efficiency. Tested accuracy by shooting groups at xx yards. Shot strings and target provided.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/black-betty-power-tuned-22-cricket-carbine/?referrer=1

This would be an extreme example since not all tunes are as extensive as some of the ones Derrick @zx10wall does...

So when you hear that the gun has been "tuned", what does it mean to you?

Please, no trolling, its getting kinda old... Constructive comments always appreciated but I don't need to hear how I'm ignorant or don't know what I'm talking about... Feel free to summon the courage to PM me if that's how you feel and we can chat...
Click to expand...


 
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What you described in your first paragraph is what I consider a base tune. Your 3rd paragraph is modifications. After your 3rd paragraph you have to reestablish a base tune. Then it’s time for the final or fine tune. That can only be done on location and on paper at the distances you plan to shoot. A fine tune done at let’s say SPAW might not work well at my elevation. I live at 2,200ft, when I get to my camp 325mi away, the elevation is 600ft. My guns are not the same guns I left home with and need adjusted.
 
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Great question! To fit into my program. A tune wouldn't include anything that could void a warranty. But I wouldn't care if I modify a cheaper gun and voided the warranty. I have not needed to do much except adjust triggers on my Daystates. Also I don't really care about velocity deviation if the gun shoots accurate. But I am interested in hearing what others have to say.



thanks, should be interesting reading
 
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To have a gun tuned by the seller, especially for a new guy, how I understand it -is that those changes would normally be a challenge to the skill level of that new guy. I don't have any tools for metal work, so any machine work is beyond me. I can fiddle with springs and screws, and I can mess up a peanut butter sandwich.
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Good question and some pretty good answers. As a newb, the above quote sums it up for me. Tuning to me means: adjusting trigger pull, hammer springs, modifying transfer ports, lapping, polishing crowns (any sort of machining or work involving machined tools), or myriad modifications aimed at increasing velocity, accuracy, and shot power. Stuff I don’t know how to do. In short, tuning to me means modifying existing parts or adding aftermarket/machined parts to improve shooting performance. 
 
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To me a tune is something inside,,,Not like an adjustment that can be done from the outside.

Tuning is getting the best performance you can .

Adjustments are just a steps in tuning....Adjustments can help your gun perform better,for some that is enough.

On the other hand ,"tuning" =is a series of "steps" that helps your gun obtain the max performance that you seek.

Tuning can take many steps.or adjustments in order to achieve "the goal".

back in the day when us hot rodders "tuned" our rides,cams,bigger valves,compression,bigger carbs,all about getting more air and fuel into the "Chamber".....does that sound familiar?


 
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Hey Jesse,get with the "new age"....just like "tuner cars" where you reprogram the cars computer to get more performance some air guns allow you to do the same thing.Also many new PCP have plenty of outside adjustments that you don't have to go inside the rifle to "tune it".

So what holds true?Simple ,anything can be made better and that is the goal of tuning.
 
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Hey Jesse,get with the "new age"....just like "tuner cars" where you reprogram the cars computer to get more performance some air guns allow you to do the same thing.Also many new PCP have plenty of outside adjustments that you don't have to go inside the rifle to "tune it".

So what holds true?Simple ,anything can be made better and that is the goal of tuning.
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This is probably where I get my definitions on airgun tuning. Adjustments, be it ECU, valve clearance or anything that you are just keeping in spec is tuning. Cams, larger injectors, exhaust or head porting is mods. Altering anything that isn’t stock is what I call a mod. Tuning is what you have to do again after the the mods are done. I guess my thinking is straight from my automotive background. See, I learned something about how I think. Thanks boscoe!
 
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Big difference between tinkering and tuning! It's a psychological thing going on with some people. Doesn't matter how perfect a gun shoots out of the box, they can't leave it alone. Others decided to max everything out not realizing the components weren't designed for extra stress of being maxed out. I see this trend with what others may call experienced "tuners" haha even seen a few videos showing others how to essentially shorten the lifespan of a new Airgun. 
 
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Basically, I believe "tuning" is a rather individual-specific term that often means many different things. IMO, whether dealing with an air rifle or sports car suspension, tuning is all about balance. And in both cases, the novice either doesn't understand, or doesn't give sufficient consideration to the extent one variable may affect others. A sports car example; many novice drivers want to use very sticky tires, so they slap them on their otherwise stock car. Soon, they're burning up brakes and overpowering the springs, shocks, and stabilizer bars, the car is horribly out of balance. With a PCP, you can crank up a lot of HST, or much more reg pressure. But, if not done to maintain balance, you risk ruining efficient air use, and shot consistency. I know that after-market hammers and springs are sometimes used. I have no experience with them, but I know the valves and regulators were set up with different parts, by folks who actually know what they're doing, and I'm happy to leave it with them. That's not to say one can't dig deep and learn about this stuff. After 10 years of playing with cars on track, I learned a lot, and the first few years was learning to know what I didn't know! And both high pressure air and high performance cars are to be taken seriously. I had a good, long run with the track thing, didn't hurt anyone or tear anything up, kind of my goal with air rifles I guess. 
 
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Definitely a good question to ask when buying used. In this world and in the firearms world, it can be pretty funny what some people call "tuned" when they are trying to sell their gun.
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Exactly my thoughts when I wrote the OP. Not only that, but when someone says “bought from XYZ Airguns and tuned by John Doe”, what exactly was done? I’m not sure, but if I had to guess, in the vast majority of the time nothing more was done that tweaking a few parameters to settings John Doe knows works well for a particular pellet (or slug). Most of the time that “tune” probably didn’t take more than 10 or 15 minutes. I wonder what the charge is for that “tune”? What I’d like to see, actually expect to see, would be a list of what exactly was done so that the buyer knows what he paid for... It could be a long list like the example in the OP. Or it could be like this : adjusted Reg pressure from A to B, adjusted HST for best efficiency/accuracy for pellet C at zzz FPS. Five/ten shot string attached.
 
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I’m surprised no one offers a “super tune” on top of a regular tune, like Beeman used to, with super gas!



to stay on point with Mikes post, to me it’s whstever gets done on top of what came from the factory. Now there’s different levels. A hammer spring and an adjustment on an AMP reg to me is so minute it’s more of a “tweak”. Once a customer designates the sole purpose of his gun and the “tuner” adjusts for that, then that there is a tune job. Because it’s custom, and not all will have it. 

A simple reg install to bring a customers wants on a specific speed and shot count can turn into a detailed tune job, depending on the gun. If you look at the old 40/40 tune done on marauders, that takes up time, a lot of air, and a lot of pellets to achieve
 
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