Trying to pull the trigger

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crowski

crowski

Member
Dec 14, 2020
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On, Canada
I have a buddy (mentor) that says, it’s inhuman to hunt with .177. (Starling and tree rats). He despises .177 even for target plinking. As a kid I shot dozens with .177.
It seams most members on this forum have .177. I bought a FBW 124 .177 and a HW97kt .177 and enjoy shooting the 97 (no time for FBW yet). 
90% of my guns are .22 and .25. 
I was thinking on a 56th in .177. for about 3 weeks now. No .22 available. It’s like an Angel on one shoulder and the Devil on the other. Love thumb holes, but not a fan of plastic parts on Diana’s. I think the 56th is absent of the plastic caps.

Would this gun be good for Varmints?

What’s the max. distance could you take out a starling or squirrel with this gun?

Crow
 
the good news is most real situations are short range when it comes to pesting, like under 25y and a good power 177 will take things out in close no problem ...longer shots depends on you and the gun .. a decently accurate airgun is pretty pinpoint out to prime airgun range which imo is out to 40-45y regardless of caliber and for small stuff if you and the gun are up to the skill to take those shots then a 177 will kill anything up to bunnies if your over 10-12fpe .. you could push it further but the skill to get those shots increases exponentially past about 50y and its doubtful 177 will be reliable on anything but small 'soft' birds out past that even if the gun stays real accurate way out ..
 
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Man, I don't think there could be a better caliber for close range plinking, especially for getting kids started into air gunning. While I don't think I would personally use it for any kind of hunting simply because I have larger calibers available, I will never not have a .177. And when I was a kid, I can't even begin to guess how many squirrels and pest birds I took out with a .177. Almost never losing one. 
 
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Been hunting vermin with .177 for about 40 plus years. Quite rare to not have one drop dead. Dont take a shot you cant make, or at least take a head shot only so if there is a miss it will be a clean miss. I do limit my shots to 50 yd max, depending on what vermin I am shooting and wind conditions. Again I dont make a shot unless I am very comfortable I can make it. 
 
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I have most certainly killed more squirrels and birds with my original 124 FWB bought new in 1980 at B&B supply in Minneapolis than any other rifle I’ve ever owned.

There are a few reasons for this. It has plenty of juice! It is relatively flat shooting out to 50 yards. It is extremely accurate. It has a wonderful trigger. It is very well designed from an ergonomics standpoint for shooting off hand.

Because it is not a MAGNUM Springer, it’s fairly easy to shoot. As in real estate, the three most important things about shot placement are location location location. All of the things in the above paragraph enhance your ability to make a good shot.

A quick story. I used to go squirrel hunting with three other buddies of mine. They would all carry their 22 rimfire’s, and I would carry my FWB 124, with Leupold 3 -9 EFR scope. It was standard practice that I would end up shooting more squirrels by myself, than the other three combined. We all did lots of shooting, I did lots of hitting. I can still remember one of them looking at me and saying “that thing just comes to your shoulder and the squirrel falls”, he shook his head and walked away.

So, blah blah blah, what’s my point? Obviously you appreciate a nice vintage rifle. If I had some change in my pocket, I would be looking for another nice vintage rifle. If you want power, An R1 in 177 will certainly fit the bill...Or an old theoben in 20 caliber. So many options, so little time.

I have owned and shot RWS 48, 56, 52. The 48 was the most accurate for me. It had a factory walnut basket weave stock. They’re all quite heavy. Which makes them easier to shoot, and harder to carry.

I love hunting for deals in the for sale section of these forums... I have certainly hit some bullseyes 🎯 over the years.

my 2 cents

I’m sure you’ll enjoy whatever you find, even if it’s a 56. They are all good. Just wouldn’t be my first choice in that price range. Especially if I already owned the best 177 squirrel killer ever built.

Share that story with your buddy who believes 17 can’t get the job done. When the 124 originally came out, they were shooting antelope with them in the eye in Africa.

177 caliber pellets are extremely available, and extremely inexpensive. More trigger time equals more kill shots.

that’s a twenty Theoben below

EE961BB9-FDD5-44D1-9484-F82EC5E3031C.1619741208.jpeg


mike
 
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I revisited some math I did awhile ago to argue on another forum that we don't need expansion to hunt small game with airguns. If we look at the areas of a squirrel and a deer, we can see what sort of hole in a deer would damage an equivalent percentage of it's body as our pellets in a squirrel. A 177 pellet damages about the same area of squirrel as a .75 inch hole in a deer. A 22 makes a hole equivalent to about a 1.2 inch hole in a deer. Those kind of holes could only be made by an expanding shotgun slug. Most deer are killed by much smaller holes. A 243 is normally considered adequate and would make less than a 1/2 inch hole.

So I think a 177 is enough for small game with an air rifle, provided it produces enough velocity to penetrate deep enough. I do not have enough experience with 177 to say what that is but I know my 1377 doesn't provide enough for me. I would think a 20 fpe 177 would be enough. I know a 18 fpe 22 works well at 25 yards or less. l use simple domed pellets because that is what my gun likes and because they give me more penetration. If you can hit the brain consistently, you don't need as much velocity. 13 fpe worked fine in my 22 for that. I wouldn't just assume this without testing but I think a 177 will penetrate further with a given energy level.


 
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Thanks everyone. Solidified my thoughts.

My range is 35 yds. max. from around my porch (blind). Off my back covered porch I have a shooting range 25 to 35 yds, 30 yds. wide. Rarely I shoot passed 35 yards . Not many days I don’t drop a tree rat or starling. 

Flintsack very nice gun. I would love to get a Theoben, I’m in Canada, if anyone has one up here I think there hidden. I’ve never seen one. Probably illegal.

In the winter I was shooting over the snow covered lake and I could easily see the flights of the different calibre's. Amazed at flat lie of .177. 
There is no way I could ever convince my buddy .177, not gonna try. He has helped me a great deal but has tunnel vision in this area. 
Been Airgunning for about 2 1/2 years now but I was lucky enough to scoop quite a few guns in that time. Weihrauch’s and LGU’s are my favourites. 
I bought a Diana K 98 and a 54 Pro Lam. and to be honest, they shoot great but parts of the barrel are made of plastic. Not one of my HW’s are constructed like that. I also rarely hear anybody talk about their 56th’s on this forum. Listen to my gut.
I’m definitely going to buy it a couple more of .177’s in the future . Again thanks Crow
 
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I started out with .25 and then moved to .22 and now I just about only shoot .177, I even have a .30 barrel but that never sees the light of the day. I’ve taken squirrels with .177 out to 45 yards with only 7 FPE at the muzzle, headshot obviously. No issues dropping squirrels with vital shot at 30 yards with 8fpe, crow DRT with 8 FPE, even starling at 15 yards with 3 FPE. As many have already said it’s all about shot placement. The humble 177 will make you a better shooter and hunter. 
 
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I started out 40 years ago with .177, and bought a few more 20 years later and they did okay for the task at hand. I then got rid of all but one of them and moved over to larger calibers and have been very happy in the .25cal and up zone.

I'd only get a .177 if I was hired to handle bird pesting duties where there is the possibility to damage roofing. 

The .177 caliber is adequate for your particular task. I just like the flexibility I get with .25cal and up.
 
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Just came in from shooting the 124, nice gun. Found breaking the barrel sometimes a dog fight. Feeling it now. Got it just the 124 before Christmas and didn’t put more than 50 rounds through it. I’m going to fit this one in my shooting a little more often. Flintsack thanks for wake up.
I’m already thinking what to get next in .177, —-easy HW98 .177. Crow 
 
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Hold the rifle firmly right in front of the trigger guard, prop the butt against your leg right up by your hip bone, look down and see the top of your barrel, holding it firmly against your hip with your left hand, smack the top of the barrel with your right hand open palm. You’ll figure out how hard to hit it in time. That breaks it loose, in one motion just continue down holding the end of the barrel and caulk it.

It makes a big difference.

glad you are enjoying it, it is one of the finest spring piston air guns ever made. They were too expensive to market. The quality of the materials especially the barrel, they could not produce them at a profit.

FWB = quality 

mike
 
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I have a buddy (mentor) that says, it’s inhuman to hunt with .177. (Starling and tree rats). He despises .177 even for target plinking. As a kid I shot dozens with .177.

There is no way I could ever convince my buddy .177, not gonna try. He has helped me a great deal but has tunnel vision in this area. 

-

Your mentor may be thinking of the general Canadian limit on airgun velocity, i.e. 495 fps. Which certainly limits the amount of power and range. However, is he familiar w/ the PAL? 

Licensing | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca › en › firearms

The Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) is the only licence currently available to new applicants. It is renewable every five years. As a general rule, applicants must have passed the Canadian Firearms Safety Course. When renewing a PAL with the same privileges, you do not need to resend your training information.

Airguns which have a velocity over 500 fps are considered firearms in Canada. One can buy and possess them; but, they meed a PAL to do so. I'm guessing you have a PAL yourself to own the air rifles you have.
Click to expand...


 
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Just FYI, that is the almost new FWB sport. Not to be confused with the 124 from the 1980s.

I also own one of those and love it. Exactly as the earlier model it was too expensive to make, and market successfully. I believe they started out retailing around $900.

It has such a superb trigger, it is truly amazing. I’ve shot half inch groups with Mine at 50 yards. And it is absolutely my favorite offhand hunting Springer.

You could start looking for a 124, or a 127 to add to your collection. The 124 would be much easier to find and less expensive. They are up for sale fairly often. I would try to find one that’s been serviced, The springs last forever.

mike
 
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