Trail Problem

[ahnlaashock]

First, this gun has been a truck/camp gun, and it hasn't been out of the stock in a long time. Not since I installed the trigger when it was new and fixed the screws so I did not have to worry about them.

Anyway, practicing today to try and keep ahead of the grandson, all of a sudden one pellet would hit 6 inches low and maybe the next four inches high. I thought it was the scope going until i smelled a burning smell and realized the compression chamber was warm.

Apparently it has gone dry after all this time, so it is time to actually work on it. I watched Rick's tear down and rebuild video, but what is the story on seals for this gun, and should the ram be replaced like an old spring that is still working but has too many shots on it, or just wipe it down and put a fresh seal on the piston?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Windmill01]

G’day I don’t have aTrail but own a Titan. I would open her up clean all the moving bits, replace the seal if I remember it’s a 25 mil seal. Slight smear of moly around the side of the seal and on the ram. Put it back together and she should be good to go. You will know if the ram is defective just like when your bonnet ram goes on your car.

Hope this helps you

Gary

 

[ahnlaashock]

Thanks!

I pulled it out of the stock and looked it over. It is surprisingly clean inside after all this time. 

The lockup wedge is worn to a sharp edge with no bevel left past the edge. I don't know about the pin yet, but that doesn't look too hard to fix.

Does anyone button these pistons, or is that not required because the body of the ram provides an internal guide? If the body of the ram acts as a guide, shouldn't it also be lubed?

Thanks in advance. I have no idea where my old cups of springer lubes and tars are, so I guess i need to order the correct Moly also.

 

[Windmill01]

When you lock in the barrel is there any downward or urpward movement if you tap the end of the barrel. If so you probably need a new jam spring to push the lockup wedge in further. Crosman may have one or go to your local spring works and they can make you a longer version so you have spares.

Never buttoned a piston in my Titans, I don’t have the equipment and to me would not be necessary. I recall someone on AGN had buttoned a Trails piston. As I said above smear a slight amount of molly, you don’t need a lot over the piston. Once you cock it a fire it the molly should spread throughout the chamber.

Gary

Ps forgot to mention make sure your barrel pivot bolt is tight as well.

 

[ahnlaashock]

I have to make a spring compressor today.

I don't think it is the spring on the lug. The lug itself is worn to a sharp edge on the top. The relief that the lug over centered past the bar and then locked into is gone. The top is flat, and the edge is sharp enough to cut you. I did mention that this particular rifle has been used a lot. Seal shows a little bias towards the bottom and is maybe borderline blown straight down. I am assuming the same amount of wear on the pin, so minimum the locking pin needs to be inspected well.

If I find the clamp out in the garage, I will tear it the rest of the way down today, If I find much more wrong with it, I may give this one a well deserved retirement and migrate the trigger unit to a replacement.

 

[Windmill01]

Sounds like a plan.

Gary

 

[Windmill01]

Does it look like this. The detent on my Trails were like this from new this particular rifle has many thousands of pellets through it. If it is does the detent make contact with the detent pin when closing the barrel.

Gary

 

[ranedouglas]

............ if you like it , and it's a crosman benji , i'd keep it. you must have a good barrel... absolutely gonna need a spring compressor , tho. i'm almost 300 lbs and when i tried to compress an trail xl ram against the brick wall - chipped the brick. it's prolly gonna be less than an inch... i have an extra b-square compresor if you need to use it. just order a new spring, and detent or pivot thing crosman - space that one up with tiny lck washers , putting one at a time under that spring down inside the barrel block. ( that would damn sure make your shots vertical erradic, tho).. parts are CHEAP from crosman. .. i hope have that same part number those early nps and npss ones had - much better rams. the np2's come with WELL made pistons , buttoned with dampener.. prolly outsourced because mine have an insignia on them. breech seal, strut , and piston seal , and the new spring and pivot locker ... i have most of those parts here now from when i was an auth repair and service center for cros.. i can teach you everything.. 817-798-4598 . you can refurb that one yours self for about $40 (shipping incl), im figuring. but if they have that same ram, it's more expensive but worth it. is it still hard to cock ? still have good power ? - paul .. -- ps -- i do have one - it's the one with the silver shaft , the black shafted one is the np2 gas ram... funny how more power from a trail np2 , yet the strut is smaller, and the shaft is skinnier on the np2 rams ( which are cheap - i cram these things into all kinds of hatsans and webleys)...got the seals, too (but np2 parts). however i can help , lemme know. pm me here. call or email ( i learned how do do this from a guy in alaska via phone (ray moody, aka super6) on a new diana 350... [email protected] . if you gotta a good one , and you decide it aint worth all this , lemme know ....some of those trail, and nps rifles even shot .22 lead balls good - when they first came out , the remington nps... ..... the .22 jim shockey is the one i like - it's been getting cheaper latey. same trigger (same trigger tune kit from ebay - $15 (it's the cbt trigger).... AMERICAN BARRELS , i dunno if the np2 struts are made here , but i'm happier wiith them than these adjustable hatsan hpa rams... you may ask for a strut for the benjamin rushmoore - that's what that silver shafted one was for , but you need to have parts numbers handy - i'll show you if you'd like.

...................

..... hope that helps. ttyl..

TRAIL NP ALL WEATHER BLACK --- .177 (new 2011) or .22 cal. pellet, BBC, Nitro Piston, SS, 1000/800 FPS, 15 in. rifled steel bull barrel, durable all-weather black synthetic stock with thumbhole, features quick lock Weaver-style optic mounting rail system, integrated sling mount, vent. rubber recoil pad, 3-9x40mm CenterPoint scope, lever safety, 44.5 in. OAL, 8.6 lbs. Mfg. 2010-2013.

 ...................... or ............

TRAIL NP HARDWOOD

.22 cal. pellet, BBC, Nitro Piston, SS, 800 FPS, 15 in. rifled steel barrel, checkered hardwood ambidextrous stock with thumbhole and checkering on grip and forearm, Picatinny mounting rail, features quick lock optic mounting system, integrated sling mount, vent. rubber recoil pad, 3-9x40mm CenterPoint scope, lever safety, 44.25 in. OAL, 7.1 lbs. Mfg. 2010-2013.

 

[ahnlaashock]

Mine is completely flat on top with an edge that would have cut you. The wear has the face torn up even.

I am considering the cost of rebuilding it, but yesterday i discovered a new problem it never had in the past. Clipping. It never had a clipping problem until now. I don't know what happened, but a rock solid rifle is acting like someone flipped a switch and said, fall apart now. I was shooting up a tin of Gamo match since I was just shooting to work the lube in really, One big hole with about the same number scattered down and right. New problem. There is a clear clipping mark in the end of the shroud. 

The marker shows a lug that is making contact pretty much all the way across the face and the contact on the bar is plain. It is never really over centers on the bar. Tightening the pivot helped, but i can still sit there and move the barrel up and down without unlocking it. It is not over centering enough to lock. I think I would have to replace the pin also. Barrel seal, rebuild action, lug, lug spring, lock bar, and still have to use the couple of pellets it shoots best once I figure out the clipping problem. I think I see a Maxxim in my future.

I have several old Crosman pumpers that have reached the same stage, where it would require a major rebuild to make them serviceable again. This one killed squirrels, rabbits, rats, and camp pests for a long time. The barrel works with the right pellet, but don't call it a good barrel. It is a usable barrel.

 

[Windmill01]

Could be time to retire it. As for the lock up I’d either try a new spring or the washers that ranedouglas mentioned above before replacing the detent pin. This may well give you the lock up you require. A slightly longer spring in both my Trails has fixed this issue of lockup.

Gary

 

[ahnlaashock]

Nice to know I am not the only one to see this issue.

I am considering replacing the lug and then cutting an over center lip in this one to see if that doesn't cure it completely once I have new parts in hand for if the experiment fails. The wear pattern says i have plenty of travel to over center and lock quite solidly, but that the lug has no relief to extend and actually lock. .

I adjusted several things yesterday, and it is functional again. I still need a new file to contour the lug in place. I am considering tearing it all the way down and doing the rebuild, including pivot shims and the lug/spring. On the other hand, I can buy a replacement for less than the cost of the parts to do this one right, and this is one of the early very heavy models. The replacement is over a pound lighter before i start.

I looked again yesterday, and i may buy a model even heavier to replace it as a yard/bench/target gun, and something else for hunting. This one is too heavy for the hunting role today, and not accurate enough for the bench role at the same time.

Oddly, the Trail and the Maxxim both shoot the best groups with the 12.9 Greens for me. The power level seems to like the 13 grain range a lot better than the heavier pellets. Think RS, not Monsters.

 

[Windmill01]

My 22 Trail shoots the 12.64 Greens very well to but I choose to use the FTT’s, much cheaper. But both my Hw77 and Lgv shoot the Greens very accurately and exclusively. Post some pics when you get the new rifle.

Gary

 

[ahnlaashock]

I have only tried the 12.93 Barracuda Greens so far. I have seen two lighter versions, but the 12.93's shoot pretty well. At 21 yards, you can already see the difference in energy, but with my eyes, past about thirty-thirty five it doesn't matter anyway!

It will actually shoot the RedFires if you do everything right. I mean everything. I shot up most of a tin, and then figuring that I had it as close to right as it was going to get right now, I broke out the $20 a tin Greens. The last seven shots cut a line up and down on a 30 mm dot with the 12.93's, and I had just made a large adjustment between the RedFires and the Greens, so i chalk some of that up to the scope settling back in. The rifle is much less "twitchy" with the Greens for some reason.

I also had not realized just how much the trigger adjustment had slipped, so I took it all the way to unsafe to set the safety, then backed off to a crisp about 1 pound trigger. I was very much in control all the time I was shooting.

It may just be my hands, but I have to pull my thumb out of the stock on the Trail and leave it up along the side of the stock if I want groups. Will the straight wrist model stocks fit the Trail?

 

[donwalk]

i purchased a NP Trail new in 22 caliber; it never did perform as advertised. the chronograph showed 650 fps as best speed. I never could get it to shoot accurately consistently the only thing did not replace was the ram.

I sold it. 

 

[ahnlaashock]

Using a 60 grit diamond lap, i broke the sharp edge to about a 32nd, and then carefully took a couple of passes to produce a lip. It locks so hard i put moly on it as I break it in. Hard enough to hurt your palm after knocking it open a few times dry.

I don't know if i can convince you how little material I actually removed to produce that change, but it is as sensitive as working a trigger. Luckily, I don't want a one pound lockup!

Look at the pictures of the locking lug the Sig 20 uses for a shallow angle relief cut. There are pictures in another thread on this forum. I used a steeper angle to make a more pronounced lip.

I think I am going to add about a pound back to the trigger.

Removing the shroud and re-torquing the shroud caused a pretty serious shift in point of impact. About 3 left and 4 up. Inches, not clicks. The mosquitoes chased me back inside about the time I had it close again. They were biting through jeans!

I will have to borrow my neighbors chronograph and see just how many steps it has lost over the years. Can the NP2 piston and ram be used in a NP?

 

[Windmill01]

Good to hear you fixed the lockup issue. I’m not sure if the np2 ram and piston fit the older np. Maybe send a pm to ranadouglas, I read his thread above and it appears both fit.

Gary

 

[ranedouglas]

.. i find that the lighter h&n ftt pellets , which are 13.13 grains and produced for hatsan as vortex express pellets , do great from guns in this power range (670-770 fps) - and they are a consistent head size and cheap at field supply .com .. in the photo in my above comment with the two gas rams on top of a spring compressor , it is the one on the right with chrome shaft. .. i believe this part number 3 in diagram here is what you need. it's a better-made strut, but seems to have been about $10 more than the np2 strut : file:///C:/Users/hp-user/Downloads/BT9M22CNP.pdf - paul.

 

[ahnlaashock]

Question Paul.

Can the stocks be swapped between models on the Crosman Benjamin NP guns of the same class? 

Can I for instance, purchase a Summit Ranger and use it as a parts bin to rebuild the Trail. including swapping the stocks? Will the elite ram work in the Trail? Will it actually add 10 to 15 percent to velocity if it will??

I fight the thumb hole stock almost as much as anything else, which argues against rebuilding the Trail.