Top finishes at 100Y BR - skill or luck?

[Centercut]

For quite a while now it's been debated that 100Y BR with pellets required too much "luck" to repeatably finish near the top in the RMAC and EBR type competitions...
A counterpoint to that might be this year, where:
The truly impressive performance of both Jeffrey Hernandez and Nicolay Boldov at EBR. Nicolay finished 2nd the second year in a row (2021, 2022) after finishing first in 2019. And Jeffrey finished first Sportsman in 2021 (and 2nd overall) and first in 2022. Other notable performances were Kjell Pehrson who finished 3rd at 2022 RMAC and 4th at 2022 EBR, and Keith Gibson who won RMAC in 2021 and finished 4th in 2022. There goes that theory flying out the window that repeatable top finishes are not possible because there is "too much luck" involved at 100Y with pellets. Either that, or those guys brought a bushel of rabbit's feet with them!

 

[Sqwirl57]

While getting lucky certainly does happen, sometimes you just have some very talented people that make their own "luck" when they play. It seems like magic to people like me who just don't know enough to understand how they manage to do it. Thats what practice is for though right? The better you get, the more often Lady Luck chooses to bless you with her presence.

 

[Centercut]

While getting lucky certainly does happen, sometimes you just have some very talented people that make their own "luck" when they play. It seems like magic to people like me who just don't know enough to understand how they manage to do it. Thats what practice is for though right? The better you get, the more often Lady Luck chooses to bless you with her presence.

Kind of goes with one of my favorite sayings. "Chance favors the prepared mind". Or "the more I practice, the luckier I get".

 

[Smitty911]

Sqwirlfugger57,

Practice of course prepares you for challenges. I believe even more important is a coach/Mentor/Observer. I've been out on the range several times and watch people just blasting away without any clue. They don't even know how to hold the rifle correctly, let alone, sight alignment and sight picture. Trigger Control, hold etc. etc. etc.
Just shooting pellets won't make you a better shooter, the basic must be learned and applied repeatedly. IMHO.

Smitty

 

[L.Leon]

I’m thinking that the three gents @Centercut, mentioned got together and did bag a “bushel of rabbits”. Then got seriously lucky using the same equipment in competition... It would be interesting to know what those debating it’s ”too much luck” with pellets, what they use instead? And why aren’t they on the podium, consistently?

 

[Sqwirl57]

Sqwirlfugger57,

Practice of course prepares you for challenges. I believe even more important is a coach/Mentor/Observer. I've been out on the range several times and watch people just blasting away without any clue. They don't even know how to hold the rifle correctly, let alone, sight alignment and sight picture. Trigger Control, hold etc. etc. etc.
Just shooting pellets won't make you a better shooter, the basic must be learned and applied repeatedly. IMHO.

Smitty

Agreed 100%. I can shoot pretty well (or so I like to think ) my comment was more geared to shooting at a level like some of these guys do. A good mentor is always a blessing though. When the guy clobbering the 10 ring time and time again tells me to try something, I listen. I dont let my ego tell me that "my 9 rings are good enough".

 

[nomojo65]

I admit I am one who has criticized the consistency and repeatability of the 100yd events. I also believe these shooters who are showing this consistency Are obviously practicing constantly at these longer ranges, not just rolling up the day of!

I also believe they are adopting more of a true Benchrest philosophy (flags, bench set-up,etc.)

A big advantage is using flags and practicing with them at all times, the only way to truly understand and accept what they are telling you. I am by no means a great shooter or flag reader but have used flags for yrs. In CF and now airgun short range comps. I could not use as many flags as Nikolay That’s more information than I can decipher at any given moment.

I do want to congratulate all the shooters that placed in the top ten of all the events in both major comps. this year. Your dedication is admirable.

One more note I would like to bring forward, every shooting competition I’ve been involved with has had restrictions or specific classes to help even the field to make it truly about the shooters abilities not just the equipment, such as weight restrictions of guns within certain classes or Airguns ftlbs of energy, caliber etc.

I believe these types of rules and classifications will slowly filter into long range comps. As more shooters want a true national style competitive organization. Not a manufacturer promoted event, then again maybe not, ultimately it’s still supposed to be fun and exciting!

 

[XSUltimate]

It would be interesting to know what lanes were those gentlemen shooting from in each of the last 3 years? There are lanes on the ends that are considerably more difficult to shoot well in. This is too small of a sample size to really gain any credible information on the best shooter having won or just placed well. I think the luck part of it is mostly lane selection. It would be interesting to see winner's lanes compiled over the years. Hell, better yet to see all lane assignments for 75 and 100 yards compiled over the last few years. That would be very meaningful info. The top shooters as you pointed out are basically always going to be in the running due to equipment and skill sets. Lane selection could knock the top shooter of the event down the finish list a few points just due to lane assignments. I see it both ways. The best are always up in the running but may not have necessarily won the event due to the different conditions they faced.
But I am with you Mike, those guys are machines!! I shot my best this year and am happy with how I shot. I had meager goals to finish well and make the finals. I now know that I can, on my best days, compete with the best that entered.
Thx
Dan

 

[Centercut]

It would be interesting to know what lanes were those gentlemen shooting from in each of the last 3 years? There are lanes on the ends that are considerably more difficult to shoot well in. This is too small of a sample size to really gain any credible information on the best shooter having won or just placed well. I think the luck part of it is mostly lane selection. It would be interesting to see winner's lanes compiled over the years. Hell, better yet to see all lane assignments for 75 and 100 yards compiled over the last few years. That would be very meaningful info. The top shooters as you pointed out are basically always going to be in the running due to equipment and skill sets. Lane selection could knock the top shooter of the event down the finish list a few points just due to lane assignments. I see it both ways. The best are always up in the running but may not have necessarily won the event due to the different conditions they faced.
But I am with you Mike, those guys are machines!! I shot my best this year and am happy with how I shot. I had meager goals to finish well and make the finals. I now know that I can, on my best days, compete with the best that entered.
Thx
Dan

You shot well Dan. My goal was to make the Pro finals, and then after that finish in the top ten. I was happy to finish 3rd, but there’s always room for improvement. Pretty much the same goal I’ll have for RMAC 2023.
I’m relatively better at 100yards than 75yards, so making the finals at EBR is harder for me than at RMAC, and that was my concern this year.
If you look back 5 years, there are shooters that tear it up every year at 75 Y, then not do so well at 100 Y. Not sure the reason behind that, but it’s real.
I’m so glad I switched from .22 RDMs to .25 King Heavy. I knew when I missed a shot it was me and not the gun or ammo. I couldn’t count on that with .22 RDMs.
Good luck in 2023!

 

[XSUltimate]

Short of those 2 guys that are shooting machines, you were right there too!
P.S. I am also on the waiting list for a Ghost! No better time that the present to start learning our flags better!
Thx
Dan

 

[nomojo65]

Bench rotation’s play a big role in equalization of opportunities for shooters, that’s for sure! With the number of shooters in these events you could easily need 3 days or more just for the 50 and 100yd events.

 

[igolfat8]

Dan brings up a good point that studying the top 10 competitors bench positions may reveal some interesting trends. Perhaps adding more cards to the finals and then mandatory bench rotations after each card and the rotations would be evenly divided by the number of benches and shooters so everyone has an equal or similar opportunity to shoot from both ends and middle benches which would provide a broader aggregate score to tally results and a winner from? Maybe that would help minimize bench bias favoritisms? I believe some other powder burner matches use bench rotations to minimize any advantages one bench has over another.

Mike, you came from a golf background, right? If you consider an analogy of the PGA there are dozens of players who [could] win on any given week. They have all prepared their equipment, body, mind, course management plan, course familiarity or past experiences as well as their caddy's relationship and historical work on yardage books similarly but isn't it worth considering that sometimes winners get more (lucky) breaks or member bounces than another equally skilled and prepared competitor on that given day or week?

I consider "member bounces" in the golfing analogy as wind and range conditions in the shooters world. The more I practice over flags the better shooter I become but there are times when I release a shot that the wind immediately switches and eats my lunch. How could that happen and how didn't that same condition affect the shooter next to me? They didn't release their shot the moment I did but perhaps waited a millisecond longer and that wind condition changed to his or her favor. Was that luck or fate? Who knows but sometimes surprises like this are totally out of our control no matter how prepared we and our equipment are and I believe its fair to categorize those events to luck.

 

[trlrman]

Luck of the draw on bench's @ EBR , you pull out of a hat at registration for qualifiers . I had my lunch eaten about 40 times ! LOL

 

[beerthief]

Exactly how does bench assignment effect the shooter and why are the outside benches considered harder ? noise next to you ? pellets flying cannot block the wind for the middle benches . please explain

 

[trlrman]

berms on bench 40 end and a wall on bench 1 end . Wind comes over the berm and down on the range , hit the wall and bounce/roll back towards the range . IMHO

 

[Centercut]

My benches this year were 18 for the 75-yard qualification rounds, and 32 for the 100Y final. In the Finals, benches 1 to 10 were the Sportsman Division, and 11 to 40 were the Pro Division.

 

[XSUltimate]

Exactly how does bench assignment effect the shooter and why are the outside benches considered harder ? noise next to you ? pellets flying cannot block the wind for the middle benches . please explain

Depending on wind direction there are berms on both sides of the small bore range that really affect the wind consistency and ability to predict. The wind can switch directions and swirl so quickly near those outside berms that it is just crazy! Down near lane 40 there is also a splitter berm, if you will, that quarters away from the outside of that right hand berm. That side of the course I still have to figure out. It is tough depending on wind activity, you could just be a participant with little chance to do well. I shot my first N50 match in lane 40 just to test it. I was shooting a 30 cal Wolverine at 50 yards and never had any 2 of my 4 flags showing the same condition anywhere for that 50 yards. All 4 flags just kept spinning the entire match. I ended up shooting a 538 out of 750 at 50 yards. That was an incredible learning experience for me. Not that I learned how to shoot down there but that it could be that difficult to read. Think about that, I consider a 538 score as being lucky to just keep the pellets on paper!!! The left side has other hindrances/impediments to it, I was in lane 7 for the finals and I was shooting over a 3 foot tall berm at about 40 yards and then at about 80 yards I had another berm coming in from the rights for about 30 yards that stopped right about the right hand side of my target. Those 2 impediments raised havoc with reading my flags and was incredibly difficult to try to keep your pellets in the 8 ring or above.. Granted, the wind was much more difficult but those berms did not do the shooters any favors. Both of my 75 yard cards on lane 33 had nothing below an 8 and not that many 8's. Lucky for me I was able to hold it together just enough at 100 to get 3rd Sportsman class.

Thx
Dan

 

[beerthief]

ok , Thankyou

 

[FelixS]

I’m thinking that the three gents @Centercut, mentioned got together and did bag a “bushel of rabbits”. Then got seriously lucky using the same equipment in competition... It would be interesting to know what those debating it’s ”too much luck” with pellets, what they use instead? And why aren’t they on the podium, consistently?

I believe a well known and respected shooter made that comment on a video as well. But yeah, what centercut said.

 

[qball]

You have to be good to be lucky!

If someone been top 10 for years and won the match one year, that is luck!

If someone can’t hit the target but win the match, that is a Disney movie these days.