I am bitter with the system as well my friend, but I am also willing to help others understand it so we can try and put more criminals away.
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To Catch A Thief - the tale of the missing BSA Goldstar SE Union Jack
- Thread starter cavedweller
- Start date
I gave it my best shot but without having a theft report or claim filed against the carrier there wasn't any more evidence i could provide them.
PayPal has officially denied the claim. Although they wouldn't reveal all of their reasons other than what you will read below. Apparently the EBay seller was able to provide documentation that he legally bought the item from an auction.
PayPal has officially denied the claim. Although they wouldn't reveal all of their reasons other than what you will read below. Apparently the EBay seller was able to provide documentation that he legally bought the item from an auction.
| We received the case(s) you filed on August 8, 2023. |
| We have reviewed this transaction(s) and are denying your case(s). This decision was made because this purchase is not covered under the terms of PayPal Purchase Protection. Find out more about how your purchases are protected and how we investigate claims by clicking Legal Agreements at the bottom of any PayPal page. Then, simply click PayPal User Agreement and Protection for Buyers. |
| We're sorry for any problems you may have experienced with the transaction(s). |
| Because the investigation into your recent case has been closed you are responsible for the purchase amount, including any interest charges. We will be updating your PayPal Credit account to show this. If a credit was received for the involved transaction please contact PayPal Credit to inquire about any related fees or interest charges. |
|
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The Lessons I feel are most valuable:
#1) always create a proper bill of sale and record your purchases and sales to include historical info like:
date and source of acquisition and take pictures that include
A) serial numbers
B) identifying features.
How many of us do this? Thus the value of the information.
#2) If you are going to sell high dollar items, clearly identify what the item is and make sure to include a serial number(s) when applicable.
#3) Only ship properly (double boxed and very well packaged) items that make it very difficult for a carrier to peak inside.
****Include a bill of sale and an additional shipping label on the inside box*****
#4) Properly and truthfully declare package contents and fully insure them so that you can actually be refunded in case of carrier loss. At the very least, use the item your shipping legal nomenclature on shipping documents without trying to be sly by using terms like pneumatic tool or paper puncher or whatever.
#5) always require a signature on the receiving end to avoid a porch pirate or worse an thieving delivery person.
#6) If an item is lost / or suspected of being stolen, immediately contact the carrier and provide all your documentation, time is of the essence - there is always a waiting period before you can file a claim.
#7) After the waiting period is lapsed and the carrier declares the loss, file a police report, as a police report provides clear legal documentation of the circumstances surrounding the incident and your desire to recover your property.
#8) as sellers and buyers be VERY clear of what you will do in case of loss or damage.
#9) be kind enough to leave feedback for one another.
I'm sure others can add to this, but at the moment this is all that comes to mind.
#1) always create a proper bill of sale and record your purchases and sales to include historical info like:
date and source of acquisition and take pictures that include
A) serial numbers
B) identifying features.
How many of us do this? Thus the value of the information.
#2) If you are going to sell high dollar items, clearly identify what the item is and make sure to include a serial number(s) when applicable.
#3) Only ship properly (double boxed and very well packaged) items that make it very difficult for a carrier to peak inside.
****Include a bill of sale and an additional shipping label on the inside box*****
#4) Properly and truthfully declare package contents and fully insure them so that you can actually be refunded in case of carrier loss. At the very least, use the item your shipping legal nomenclature on shipping documents without trying to be sly by using terms like pneumatic tool or paper puncher or whatever.
#5) always require a signature on the receiving end to avoid a porch pirate or worse an thieving delivery person.
#6) If an item is lost / or suspected of being stolen, immediately contact the carrier and provide all your documentation, time is of the essence - there is always a waiting period before you can file a claim.
#7) After the waiting period is lapsed and the carrier declares the loss, file a police report, as a police report provides clear legal documentation of the circumstances surrounding the incident and your desire to recover your property.
#8) as sellers and buyers be VERY clear of what you will do in case of loss or damage.
#9) be kind enough to leave feedback for one another.
I'm sure others can add to this, but at the moment this is all that comes to mind.
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This just needs to be played out. It’s highly possible the OP may need the item in his possession by the chance eBay or PayPal gives the slightest crap. I suspect they won’t but we will see. The true tail will be will the whole story be told if in the end PayPal, eBay and law enforcement do basically nothing ? What will be done with the gun in that end case? Maybe judgement should be held at least for awhile.
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This scares me as I have used Paypay for some big buys and sells. Not sure if this was mentioned in any replies but was thinking with a police report (know you don't have one but asking for my own knowledge) and the evidence you have, could you have filed a claim with your credit card company listed on your pay pay account and they refute the charge. The ownership question between you and the original seller probably nixes that but just wondering if it would be a viable option if you had taken the original loss and then paid again for the stolen merchandise. Discover has been very good to us in ruling in our favor on disputes with venders. I guess having a good credit card company that does good fraud prevention would be a positive on a Paypal account; but maybe not much. Thinking of cancelling my Paypal account as this really peeves me off. Thanks for sharing. A good learning experience for me.
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It’s done playing out, please review/ see prior messages. Because of several shipping mistakes and no one filing claims or police reports a year ago, and other factors as listed above in lessons learned PayPal declined to reimburse OP. The eBay seller apparently provided eBay with a receipt of purchase from an auction but didn’t provide copies. The original owner of the BSA has stated “firmly” before and again today after PayPals decision today that he has abandoned any and all interest in the Union Jack and insists that the OP, keep and enjoy the airgun and thanked the OP for trying so hard to get him compensation. End of story.
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I used PayPal credit for more leverage but in retrospect I think using a credit card through PayPal would have given me another option. Thank you for the idea!
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Boy, I’d have bet the farm it would never happen but I’m going to have to come down on PayPal’s side here. Look from their perspective. Gun was stolen a year ago and they gave that money back based on proof it was never delivered. Now a year later the gun is suddenly in OP’s possession. He bought it and has proof he paid for it. But, eBay seller has proof he acquired legitimately. No PD or other claims were ever filed from the theft and they’re being asked to once again refund $1K for the same gun, WHICH IS NOW IN THE ORIGINAL BUYER’S POSSESSION! So, the original buyer would have the gun AND have been refunded all the money he shelled out for it. I don’t believe this is a scam on OP’s part, but from PP perspective I can see how they think it might be.
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PayPal doesn’t technically refund anything. They just transfer funds back and forth from various sellers and buyers/ members bank accounts as required - nothing is free they always get their money. They also provide credit or front people money for purchases but They are not set up to be police or spend time in courts… it is what it is.
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Now we know why people have no worries about stealing something. If I were in this situation all I would want to know is who the eBay seller bought it off. If the eBay seller did have legitimate documentation, and I question that, from what auction he bought it from, that’s where you find the thief.
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Always insure anything shipped. Insurance companies don't like losing money, and they get results.
I had a $500 scope I ordered off Ebay show up as a shipping label. I filed a claim the while Seller took a loss and shipped another. I offered to pay for the first scope if it ever showed up; it never did.
I had a $500 scope I ordered off Ebay show up as a shipping label. I filed a claim the while Seller took a loss and shipped another. I offered to pay for the first scope if it ever showed up; it never did.
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