Selling and sending a stole rifle through the mail could constitute Mail Fraud and should be reported to your Post Master.
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To Catch A Thief - the tale of the missing BSA Goldstar SE Union Jack
- Thread starter cavedweller
- Start date
The seller has a responsibility to ensure the product reaches the buyer - lots of risk - that’s why as responsible sellers we pack our stuff very well, we ship through legitimate carriers who will insure us against loss and require signatures upon receipt! When buyers or sellers “cheap out” on packing, shipping or insurance there is always a chance for major loss.
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I disagree. The seller who acts in good faith, packs well, and uses a responsible shipping method performed their due diligence. We're talking about forum members and private people who are not businesses which can accept business losses. If a buyer declines to pay for insurance, especially in todays environment regarding shipping losses, how can you blame a seller?
Now if an item arrives damaged due to shoddy packaging, then there is a problem, not withstanding obvious package mishandling.
When I buy here off the forum, if the seller doesn't mention insurance, I'll ask to see if it is covered in the shipping charge. If not, I'll gladly pay a little more for peace of mind.
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So you titled the thread ‘to catch a thief’. Which indicates the item is stolen. The item still belongs to the original owner. Period.
You indicate that the only recourse is through the eBay seller or eBay. That’s not the case. The eBay seller may very well be just another innocent person in a chain of people who have bought the item, just like you.
The difference at this point is that you are ‘in possession of stolen property’. Google receiving or possessing stolen property. It will explain what I’m trying to say.
You have avoided answering what happens if eBay doesn’t reimburse.
Dave
You indicate that the only recourse is through the eBay seller or eBay. That’s not the case. The eBay seller may very well be just another innocent person in a chain of people who have bought the item, just like you.
The difference at this point is that you are ‘in possession of stolen property’. Google receiving or possessing stolen property. It will explain what I’m trying to say.
You have avoided answering what happens if eBay doesn’t reimburse.
Dave
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Glad the rifle turned up.
Very disappointing for both parties, seller and buyer.
I feel like it’s the sellers responsibility to have the price include shipping and insurance.
It makes it safer and simpler for both parties, and if it goes bad then it’s covered under the insurance.
I have my own nightmare unfolding right now.
A member just bought my .22 RedWolf HP, so I packed it well in a hard case and put that into a box.
I foolishly only insured it for $1000, and yes it has disappeared
.
I’m going to post about it after the claim is filed and I know what is going to happen about it.
Hopefully it will show up, but if not then I’ll post the serial number and pictures of the rifle and perhaps this story will have similar ending like the original post.
Very very disappointing indeed.
Very disappointing for both parties, seller and buyer.
I feel like it’s the sellers responsibility to have the price include shipping and insurance.
It makes it safer and simpler for both parties, and if it goes bad then it’s covered under the insurance.
I have my own nightmare unfolding right now.
A member just bought my .22 RedWolf HP, so I packed it well in a hard case and put that into a box.
I foolishly only insured it for $1000, and yes it has disappeared
.I’m going to post about it after the claim is filed and I know what is going to happen about it.
Hopefully it will show up, but if not then I’ll post the serial number and pictures of the rifle and perhaps this story will have similar ending like the original post.
Very very disappointing indeed.
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I get what you are saying as there is no legal obligation or such. I personally would feel compelled to do what this seller did for the OP. That’s just me. I have been through this once awhile back with a compound bow with fedex ground. I sold it and fedex damaged part of it. They wouldn’t deal with the guy that received it. I had to file the claim and do everything. The first thing they wanted ( so everyone knows this) were pics of the item/damage and pics showing the packaging. Shippers are quick to deny claims based on inadequate packing. So over pack your stuff. I had packed it really well. They also wanted some type of proof of the Value of the replacement and repair cost of the item. In the meantime I sent the guy the money for new limbs. It took fedex a little while but they did rule in my favor and sent me a check. Now I don’t know if every shipper is the same but that is how it worked with fedex. They would only deal with me as the service contract was between me and them not the buyer. It’s a weird situation involving a third party shipper and responsibility associated with that. I just feel the ultimate obligation is on the seller. I always insure shipments for value for this reason. It’s really weird that no reimbursement was given at all for a lost shipment. Shipments usually come with some basic coverage like 100 dollars. I can guarantee I would never in a million years use that shipping company again if I were that seller. I won’t use usps. Their tracking sucks as does their service. Overall they have the worst service in the industry. I work for a competitor so possibly they lie to us about those stats lol but my experience with the post office has reflected those stats. I actually use pirate ship and let’s just say I don’t work for that for that shipping company either
. I use that shipper (UPS) because through pirate ship their rates are way cheaper than my employers even with my employee discount . Last edited:
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I see your point... But now you are in possession of a stolen item... And you know it...(and admitted it on this forum as well to eBay and PayPal) you didn't know it was the stolen rifle when you purchased it on eBay... But now you sure do and can prove it was infact a stolen rifle...So keeping it from the rightful owner is the right thing to do?? Help me understand this.. either way.. I'm glad a stolen item was recovered.. I hope this ends well for both you guys....more importantly I hope the person that stole it in the first place get what they deserve..
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There are a multitude of issues you are unaware of - please don’t make assumptions - thank you.
The owner wrote the loss off over 11 months ago as he was not interested in pursuing the matter or following up in anyway, mostly because of some shipping issues created on his part. Nonetheless I’m keeping him informed as a courtesy and a way to provide authorities ways to validate the entire situation and maybe just maybe get him some money where before there was zero chance. Had I not taken a risk to purchase the gun, none of these facts, like proving the guns ser# / identity would have been possible or brought to light and there would been absolutely no chance to track the thief and the airgun would have been lost as well. Be patient, be still, keep an open mind and listen and we will all learn from this!
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You bought a stolen rifle and it legally belongs to the man that reimbursed you to begin with. Whether he had given up on recovering it or not, it is his property.
You sir are in possession of stolen property. If the police are informed they will confiscate it and (hopefully) return it to the original owner. But it’s just as likely to be destroyed, or sold at an auction, or just sit on a shelf for the next 15 years while it is “investigated”.
You sir are in possession of stolen property. If the police are informed they will confiscate it and (hopefully) return it to the original owner. But it’s just as likely to be destroyed, or sold at an auction, or just sit on a shelf for the next 15 years while it is “investigated”.
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Hate to bring this up, but here we go.
1. Buyers (Cavedweller) is refunded money.
2. Seller files claim with USPS.
3. USPS pays Seller for claim
Rifle is now USPS Property being that they paid for it. Shows up on EBAY, Cavedweller re-purchases it and receives - "Stolen Property".
If USPS never filed/payed a claim than, it's probably legally the original seller. Once Cavedweller gets refunded his money from Paypal, he should pay the original seller.
IMHO
Smitty
1. Buyers (Cavedweller) is refunded money.
2. Seller files claim with USPS.
3. USPS pays Seller for claim
Rifle is now USPS Property being that they paid for it. Shows up on EBAY, Cavedweller re-purchases it and receives - "Stolen Property".
If USPS never filed/payed a claim than, it's probably legally the original seller. Once Cavedweller gets refunded his money from Paypal, he should pay the original seller.
IMHO
Smitty
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Are you saying items 1,2,and 3 have taken place already? I have not read that information here anywhere.
From what I read the original owner from whom it was stolen had not been reimbursed and was out the money he had graciously reimbursed to the buyer.
Gentlemen, I recommend we convene these proceedings until tomorrow evening. (I gotta call it a day.) It is a pleasure litigating this case with you fine gentlemen and I look forward to tomorrow’s discourse. If there is any further exculpatory evidence that needs presented please have it ready.
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Lol. I hear you. I will just make a prediction. Neither eBay or PayPal will want anything to do with any of this and will just refer complaint filer to contact authorities.
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I can't believe there are so many people here making you the bad person with stolen merchandise, you did nothing wrong , the broken legal system is showing even here with these members attitudes, let us know what happens with the thief. I had something simular happen to me many years ago and i researched addresses near the culprit and he was definitely a low life.
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Hahaha I’m not making anyone out to be a “bad person”. Good people mistakenly buy stolen property all the time. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s stolen property and that it has a rightful owner.
If your car was stolen tonight and sold to your neighbor, how does that make it not your property anymore? Would you call it a “broken legal system” for the car to be returned to you? Or should your neighbor get to keep your car because he paid a thief for it?
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The issue is with proving the seller had knowledge it was stolen. Most sellers, unless they are part of law enforcement and sell as a side gig, don't have access to law enforcement data. Not to mention, if the original owner didn't file a report or know the serial number, the gun in essence is akin to every other Huffy bicycle being stolen and sold daily.
Law enforcement must develop probable cause to make an arrest and the DA needs even more than that (beyond a reasonable doubt) to file charges and actually have a chance at a conviction.
I hate thieves as much as everyone else here, but these things can be hard to prove in the end, especially when it was a year after the fact. The honest truth is thieves get a way with 100 other thefts before they get caught quite often and this new idea of rehabilitation (think probation/parole) vs actual jail time is not helping.
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whoever is bringing up technicalities about receiving stolen items Blah blah are full of poop. this is a case of personal responsibility and JUSTICE. let it play out first before inserting your soy boy opinions. why are you on an airgun forum anyways? take the mask off and breath fresh air maybe that will help clear your mind.
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People !
Stop jumping to conclusions! This thread is about learning something. Question: Would you be willing to spend 1K on eBay to buy an airgun you thought (might be) yours or someone else's stolen airgun?
The more I researched the events surrounding this loss, the more I have Learned, like:
Original Seller shipped with ups (not usps) and couldn’t file a claim because
A) contents were not properly disclosed
B) package was not insured.
C) no police report or claim of any kind was filed on the loss thus no record of theft.
Seller Realizes his mistakes and thus he did not file a claim.
Additionally, the Ebay seller may be able to demonstrate legal purchase - we don't know!
The AGN seller I am trying to help has no problem with me keeping the gun! We have discussed this. He understands that I have taken a huge risk and spent 1K to try and recover his loss. Would you be willing to spend 1K on eBay to buy an airgun you thought (might be) your stolen airgun?
I have taken a risk, I spent over 1K in an attempt to recover a missing airgun and hopefully the money lost, because i knew PayPal and eBay have very strict rules and they “may” be able to right the original owner - we don’t know yet.
PayPal has been asked to directly reimburse the original owner / seller as they have records of our original transaction(s).
If they were to reimburse me the money, I would be immediately sent back to our AGN member via paypal.
Remember I am WORKING to right a wrong, to help someone! This is about learning, not accusing.
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