Other Thoughts about Slugs and Magazines

I enjoy modest power (below 50 fpe) airguns and pellets for most of my shooting but a strong curiosity about slugs has had me investing in a couple of PCPs specifically for them.

I'm trying to figure out what makes finding the right slug and getting consistent groups so elusive when the powder burner guys can buy any off the shelf ammunition (let's just call them "bullets") and expect reasonably good results.

In looking at the problem I strongly suspect that slugs face alignment challenges that bullets don't.

A bullet, mounted in its cartridge is accurately aligned to the case and seated to a standard depth so that when it's chambered it is in the optimal position (relative to the rifling) and orientation to be fired down the (unchoked) barrel. Bullets are typically quite long relative to their diameter which benefits them both in the bore and in flight. The huge amount of energy/pressure available has no problem forcing a tight fitting, well sealed bullet down the bore.

An airgun slug has no "support system" and must rely on the probe and the magazine to chamber it straight and position it relative to the rifling.

Considering that each brand and weight of slug has a different length, the type of the base (flat, dished or boat-tailed) and the design of the probe will affect how the slug seats in the breech relative to the rifling and transfer port. I think an adjustable probe might be useful to have.

The shape of the slug and it's length (short and pointy versus a long cylinder) would influence how easily it could be misaligned while being chambered.

Airgun bore size and consistency and finding the exact correct diameter of slug to achieve a good seal without excessive friction is an other variable to consider.

Then there's choked or unchoked barrels and rifling twist rate considerations... or some sort of compromise for PCPs that are pellet/slug dual purpose airguns.

After all the mechanical considerations there's the tuning for optimum velocity and harmonics.

Are we having fun yet? 🤪

So if we look at worst case and take a short pointed slug, abuse it in the magazine; mis-feed it so it engages the rifling cockeyed and compromises the sealing; fire it down the bore to be extruded through the choke and launch it into the world in a blast of over-powered turbulent air, are we really surprised that it takes the slug many yards of erratic flight to sort itself out?

But man, is it ever beautiful when we get everything right and stable flight and sub-MOA groups happen! 😍

Anyway, just food for thought. Please feel free to ignore me or to add you own theories.

Here is a link to a video about magazines mis-feeding pellets that probably applies to slugs as well.

Cheers!

 
I like this post. I have a stock a
Zelos .22 cal modded only by 3 things the 500 cc bottle the adapter , and I slipped a piece of
clear plastic tubing over the barrel under the shroud , and back on the exposed part by my face. I only have 15 yards in my back yard shooting range.
I got the reg set at 2,900 the hammer spring 5 turns in , and the 28,s are going 885. I'm getting same hole accuracy from the Apollo 28 grain HP dish base slugs. I don't think at that close range they have even stabilized. The new double mag holds 36 , and that's how many shots I get from full fill to 3,000 which is just above the reg setting. In PB's I used to buy 4 boxes of various ammo whenever I got a new rifle to see which one worked best , but then started to reload with these variables case , powder ,bullet ,primer. Until I was able to dial in the perfect round. In Airguns the Zelos only has mags I mean there may be a single shot tray but I don't care for them so I never looked. One thing you did not mention is the possibility of lube which I don't use because I never cleaned the barrel as lead itself is lubricating , and the competition shooters is where I read they don't clean the barrels , so I don't either. The probe idea is great , but the dish base slugs work great for mine , so it would be finding the slug that works well for your probe , and not the other way around. A dedicated sluger might be the way to go
I have 2 barrels for my Zelos , and they switch very easy , so I use a dedicated slug barrel for my slugs. With the Zelos being able to easily mod to the FX liners Which come for both slugs , and Pellets might be an Idea. Lothar has the new polygon barrels which provide less friction as far as rifling goes. I'm going to say it's just a trial , and error thing with so many variables , but from reading here I learned the the heavier slugs , or pellets moving at 920 to 950 seem to be the most accurate. I want to see where this goes. OldVet
Edit: Great video , and after watching I thought maybe a small adapter added to the probe could be added to bring the shoulder out a little more.
 
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I enjoy modest power (below 50 fpe) airguns and pellets for most of my shooting but a strong curiosity about slugs has had me investing in a couple of PCPs specifically for them.

I'm trying to figure out what makes finding the right slug and getting consistent groups so elusive when the powder burner guys can buy any off the shelf ammunition (let's just call them "bullets") and expect reasonably good results.

In looking at the problem I strongly suspect that slugs face alignment challenges that bullets don't.

A bullet, mounted in its cartridge is accurately aligned to the case and seated to a standard depth so that when it's chambered it is in the optimal position (relative to the rifling) and orientation to be fired down the (unchoked) barrel. Bullets are typically quite long relative to their diameter which benefits them both in the bore and in flight. The huge amount of energy/pressure available has no problem forcing a tight fitting, well sealed bullet down the bore.

An airgun slug has no "support system" and must rely on the probe and the magazine to chamber it straight and position it relative to the rifling.

Considering that each brand and weight of slug has a different length, the type of the base (flat, dished or boat-tailed) and the design of the probe will affect how the slug seats in the breech relative to the rifling and transfer port. I think an adjustable probe might be useful to have.

The shape of the slug and it's length (short and pointy versus a long cylinder) would influence how easily it could be misaligned while being chambered.

Airgun bore size and consistency and finding the exact correct diameter of slug to achieve a good seal without excessive friction is an other variable to consider.

Then there's choked or unchoked barrels and rifling twist rate considerations... or some sort of compromise for PCPs that are pellet/slug dual purpose airguns.

After all the mechanical considerations there's the tuning for optimum velocity and harmonics.

Are we having fun yet? 🤪

So if we look at worst case and take a short pointed slug, abuse it in the magazine; mis-feed it so it engages the rifling cockeyed and compromises the sealing; fire it down the bore to be extruded through the choke and launch it into the world in a blast of over-powered turbulent air, are we really surprised that it takes the slug many yards of erratic flight to sort itself out?

But man, is it ever beautiful when we get everything right and stable flight and sub-MOA groups happen! 😍

Anyway, just food for thought. Please feel free to ignore me or to add you own theories.

Here is a link to a video about magazines mis-feeding pellets that probably applies to slugs as well.

Cheers!

As a guy who handloads and messes with casting and many calibers..... I think its nuanced but I will give the big one first.

Obturation.

Powder is operating at tens of thousands of psi and it smashes the projectile when fired so it fits the bore pretty well. I'm not out there finding. 2245 or 2230 projectiles to chase groups the powder burner guns won't support anyways.

Airguns rely on a choke sometimes or perfectly matched sizing and or the skirt of a pellet or hybrid slug to obturate and can hold groups that most of MY powder burners couldn't hope to hold. (my best rimfire group in low level competition was 300 thou ctc at 50 yds). My impact on pellets could single hole that if I did my part before I slug converted.

All that said, if you want a high power long range (110 yards plus) air rifle I think slugs are a worthwhile endeavor or having a dedicated slug gun.

If you have 1 gun and want to shoot pellets too, maybe skip the slugs and look at heavy pellets. Slugs are a commitment to shoot well usually and the lighter ones bc increase hasn't shown much use for me.... and my slug setup impact sits around because I can shoot 110 with pellets in 25 and 75 fpe 22 slugs isn't super safe except as my varmint gun outside of populated areas. Heck yesterday I learned I can calculate a 177 disco into hitting starlings at 92 yards with cphp pellets from a crosman barrel!

I guess it's sort of the Malcom in the middle meme where Hal says "son, you know once you begin there's no turning back" with slugs 😂 at least if your hammer sucks to change or you hate re zeroing your scope after a barrel change.
 
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I’ve got a few air rifles that shoot slugs very well. With that said I cast my own ammo for them and it took a lot of mold testing then playing with the sizing to get them to where they are now. One in particular , the Evanix K550 ( bottle version of the AR6 ) shoots directly from the magazine, no probes. I shoot both slugs and very heavy EUN JIN pellets. The barrel in the rifle is not your typical airgun .22 ( .216 through .219) this factory barrel is .2235 same a a .22LR. Hole on hole at 75 yards with this set up.
The other stand out is a converted Winchester 70/35 that is now a .257. I had to modify the magazine , the probe and swap the barrel to a TJ’s 1:14 twist. It loves arsenal molds 257420 bullets. Will shoot MOA at 200 yards on a good day.

Both of those rifles are unregulated, I find them easier to tune and to get more power to shoot slugs with.