Think someone is a Scammer? - Call Me (+ How to Not Get Scammed)

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kaylaindy

kaylaindy

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Jun 3, 2017
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Washington, United States
Hey guys. It's 2021 but some guy just got talked into sending a "Deposit" for a gun over Zelle. He is out $200.

So let me just help out any old timers, or new timers who don't understand the world of 2021.


RULE #1: If it's not a Paypal transaction, forget about the gun. NO GUN IS WORTH taking the risk. (Scammers always offer you a better than average deal so you feel you can't pass it up.) Paypal payments must be Goods and Services and you must list WHAT you are buying (without saying "gun" or "rifle") Example: "Weirauch Model Hw97 w/ Blue Laminate Stock and HAWKE Scope" Are you actually covered? That's a whole other debate, but no scammer is going to accept a Goods and Services payment. 

RULE #2: Check the scammers list. Not fool proof but the Zelle thief was on the Scammers' List already.

RULE #3: Trust your gut. Does it seem a bit off? THEN IT IS!!!!

RULE #4: Just email or PM me the link and I'll tell you if it's real. There are many other indicators that I'm not mentioning here. I can even pretend to try and buy the gun to see what's going on. I'm happy to check people out. My email is [email protected] or I check my PM' s a few times a day.

Happy shooting! -Nate @ Airgun Channel 


This service is also like Paypal, some say better: (Service mentioned by AGN staff a few months back, ANYONE REMEMBER?)

Edit: ...it was Escrow.com
 
Hey guys. It's 2021 but some guy just got talked into sending a "Deposit" for a gun over Zelle. He is out $200.

So let me just help out any old timers, or new timers who don't understand the world of 2021.


RULE #1: If it's not a Paypal transaction, forget about the gun. NO GUN IS WORTH taking the risk. (Scammers always offer you a better than average deal so you feel you can't pass it up.) Paypal payments must be Goods and Services and you must list WHAT you are buying (without saying "gun" or "rifle") Example: "Weirauch Model Hw97 w/ Blue Laminate Stock and HAWKE Scope" Are you actually covered? That's a whole other debate, but no scammer is going to accept a Goods and Services payment. 

RULE #2: Check the scammers list. Not fool proof but the Zelle thief was on the Scammers' List already.

RULE #3: Trust your gut. Does it seem a bit off? THEN IT IS!!!!

RULE #4: Just email or PM me the link and I'll tell you if it's real. There are many other indicators that I'm not mentioning here. I can even pretend to try and buy the gun to see what's going on. I'm happy to check people out. My email is [email protected] or I check my PM' s a few times a day.

Happy shooting! -Nate @ Airgun Channel 


This service is also like Paypal, some say better: (Service mentioned by AGN staff a few months back, ANYONE REMEMBER?) I could not find the thread. 

Click to expand...


Good advice Nate!
 
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Dead set against online Payments? ...a Money Order is the only way? 

Then why don't they send you the gun first? Seriously, what's the difference? Your sending them essentialy cash and trusting them to send the gun. There is literally no difference. 


Does sending a Money Order sound odd now? That's because it is. In 2021 you don't send money orders to people for merchandise. It's just not done. 


The only exception would be someone with, lets just say, 50+ positive feedbacks on AGN. You know who they are, you know it's them your actually talking to. No one has ever said anything bad about that person, many people have said good things. You can verify through his post history that he has completed many gun sales using money orders. ...maybe you even PM'ed some of his past buyers. Then it might be OK. 

...but NOT under any other circumstance. 
 
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Escrow.com YES

Venmo NO!!!!!!  I believe Venmo offfers no purchase protection. VENMO is for paying the babysitter, cleaning lady, or reimbersing your friend who bought the ice cream last weekend. It's not for exchanging goods.

I googled it: 

"Venmo does not offer a buyer or seller protection program for transactions conducted using the Venmo app or Venmo.com, regardless of the nature of the payment (or charge),"
 
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I think a check is a simple solution with a few conditions. The person that sends the check puts on the check FOR DEPOSIT ONLY. This will make it so the person has to deposit into their account. To deposit it to an account their name has to be on the account leaving a paper trail. If the transaction is determined as fraud well the bank will collect their money weather the person took it out their account or not. To have a bank account you need legit papers. When the banks see for deposit only they will refuse to Cash it even if you use the same bank. It would delay shipping untill the check clears but I rather have a few days delay then a loss of a couple hundred $$$$
 
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You folks in US using eMT

?

electronic money transfer

I am using it here in Canada for years, it is free. You do online banking receiving your utilities bills online and paying bills online, so your email is registered in the bank.

You send the $ and put a password on the money transfer. By email you send your seller the password at your best confidence, immediately or as per agreement when you received the toy.

In Canada became pretty popular in between personal transactions, and no transfer fees..
 
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First of all, i agree that you should NOT use Venmo or Money Orders for goods. Venmo is (in my opinion) to be used between friends. It’s a money transfer App, not a payment app. It is really great for getting paid when you have a dinner and one person pays and the others then Venmo him or her the money. Not good at all for purchasing stuff. PayPal is pretty common, and they do have procedures that can help you, even if you are using F&F rather than G&S. I use it on here with the F&F option, because most of the people I have purchased from have been around a while, have a track record, and in many cases I have interacted with them. At a minimum I can see what type of posts they have made and gain some kind of an impression of who they seem to be. It’s a risk I have been prepared to take and so far its worked out for me.

I would be quite suspicious of someone who “doesn’t do PayPal” and wants me to send them money directly by a money order.

bigHUN, there are similar systems here in the US, but I think the key is whether or not you are paying first and receiving the goods later, or the seller is shipping first and getting payment later. Your example is one in which the seller ships the goods and you release the password after you have checked out the goods. I am never going to ship a product to people I don’t know before I get the money. If I am worried then I either will not do the transaction, or I’ll do it using Good & Services” and pay the extra fees. Generally, if I am worried enough then there’s not gonna be a deal.

Chris
 
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The last thing I would accept is a money order. The criminals are creating their own these days and stirring up the banks because of it. My sister got burnt two years ago accepting a money order as payment. The bank cashed it, but then realized a short time later that it was a fake and gigged her for it. The incident was reported, but never heard anymore.
 
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So, Is there really a decent way of buying / selling out there that protects the seller and the buyer? Everything mentioned so far has points / counterpoints that don't make any of the methods in this whole thread sound great.

What I mean is that you have people saying things like:

  • PayPal's the only way to sell items......then the next couple posts are stories where sellers got burned and PayPal doesn't back up sales of guns, etc.
  • Money Order - apparently a hard no with everyone. My bad, wasn't aware of this. You all make some valid points I wasn't really thinking about.
  • "escrow.com" - A couple of older threads here bring up the point that they might not provide much seller protection either. Haven't seen anything recently about this. One of the threads is here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/how-does-escrow-coim-protect-the-seller/

FWIW and for disclosure, I placed 2 classifieds here today and requested USPS or Money Order for payment because of reasons I list above, which at the time, seemed to make sense to me. Total for all items on both ads <$200. I don't do PayPal because I can't figure out who is and who is not getting hosed by all these gun related transactions we all hear about and if this is REALLY a good way to accept payments or not. I just don't know so I stay away from it. I'd be more than willing to try a different way of accepting payment if the majority here could agree on something that works well. I'm just a new seller looking for some help and answers.

Not trying to stir this up any more than it already is...Just want to know if there's a good solution to this problem or not.
 
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Has anyone used FaceBook Pay? I think it is called that, but not sure. I know some of my other forums use this as a method of payment.
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It has a buyer protection, but you have to list the item on marketplace and have the buyer buy it through there to get it... and you cant list an airgun on there so, not much protection for us unfortunately. 

Same with paypal really, even goods and services... Its against paypals terms of service to use it to purchase or sell an airgun.. I have heard of a scam on the buying end with paypal, where the buyer puts something in the notes that isnt what he is buying and hopes the seller doesnt catch it. say "flatscreen tv" or something.. then when the seller ships the air rifle to the buyer, the buyer takes a bunch of pictures and contacts paypal saying that is not what they ordered and the seller shipped them a gun which is against paypal rules. Paypal voids the transaction and locks the sellers account for 30 days due to TOS violation, buyer gets their money back and keeps the gun... Its hitting the knife world right now too, paypal decided last year that knives other than packaged retail cutlery sets or tools (fillet knife, lathe tools, box knife, etc) are weapons and scammers are taking advantage of it. 


 
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Paypal has covered me. Long ago, Airgun Pro Shop tried to sell me a used gun and say it was new (it was clealy not), and Paypal gave me my money back, but that was a store.

The don't have to cover you for airguns, which is why you may get lucky if you don't say "gun or rifle" when you list what your buying. Who's to say an LCS-SK19 is not a piece of pro audio equipment. If an airgun dispute arises, they will just declare the air rifle a "firearm" and say they don't cover it. Stick to model names and numbers. 

But the point of a Goods and Services payment is a scammer won't take one. They will try and talk you into a Friends and Family payment, even when you offer to pay the 3% extra for Goods and Services. 


not so Fun fact: Paypal tried to declare Cattleman airguns as "firearms" about 5 weeks ago and they froze Victoria's account (the Cattleman Guns lady). I didn't ask her how much was in there, but I would guess it was tens of thousands of dollars. She called the NRA and the NRA gave her a lawyer to handle it. I'm sure she got her money back, ...but things are dicey out there. 
 
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I just call them on the phone and see if they seem like a real and honest person. Then pay however is most convenient. 

Most airgun guys won't have a problem talking about airguns for a few minutes. 

And it's a lot easier than having you "pretend to buy the gun" which is shady as hell and wastes everyone's time. 

That's always worked for me. And it worked for a few decades before the internet came around. 

Everyone just hides behind a screen these days..
 
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FWIW and for disclosure, I placed 2 classifieds here today and requested USPS or Money Order for payment because of reasons I list above,
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I was about to say, Money Orders do get used successfully with members all the time. I can understand some people can't or don't want a Paypal account.

Just because someone prefers a money order as payment doesn't mean they are trying to be dishonest. That's why you have to look at every seller as a whole. If I looked at the guys ad above I could probably find many things that point to him NOT being a scammer. 

I'm just a new seller looking for some help and answers.

Just want to know if there's a good solution to this problem or not
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Not yet. If your an honest seller, don't worry about asking for Money Orders or Personal Checks. Were not woried about honest sellers. 

Let checks clear 2 weeks. Get ONLY Postal Money Orders from the US Postal Office. If someone can't manage that then forget them. US Postal Money Orders are impossible to fake. 

Escrow and Paypal are the 2 best choices at the moment, even if the purchase protection is just an illusion. The appearance of Purchase Protection is working for now. ...haven't looked into Escrow.com yet. 

FOOL PROOF: Ebay will give a buyer's money back no matter whet, get it off eBay, and you can return it for any reason. 


 
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And it's a lot easier than having you "pretend to buy the gun" which is shady as hell and wastes everyone's time.
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Wow, there is nothing shady about trying to bust a scammer. You wouldn't take 5 minutes out of your day to check someone out? 

Loosing $200 wastes alot more time. Also, F you thumper, I don't like you. 



Also, I don't "pretend to buy guns". I have literally bought 150 guns on this site in the last 3 years. 
 
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And it's a lot easier than having you "pretend to buy the gun" which is shady as hell and wastes everyone's time.
Click to expand...

Wow, there is nothing shady about trying to bust a scammer. You wouldn't take 5 minutes out of your day to check someone out? 

Loosing $200 wastes alot more time. Also, F you thumper. I don't like you.
Click to expand...


And what if the seller IS legit? Then it's just like Thumper said "YOU wasted HIS time". "F you thumper"? Classy, real classy.
 
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And it's a lot easier than having you "pretend to buy the gun" which is shady as hell and wastes everyone's time.
Click to expand...

Wow, there is nothing shady about trying to bust a scammer. You wouldn't take 5 minutes out of your day to check someone out? 

Loosing $200 wastes alot more time. Also, F you thumper. I don't like you.
Click to expand...

So what if the "scammer" turns out to be a real, decent, person trying to sell a gun?

Do you just say, "ok cool, I was just pretending to be interested to see if you were a scammer, I'll tell the real guy that was interested that you are ok."

Because if you already knew they were a scammer FOR SURE, you wouldn't have wasted the effort right? 

Would you not be a little pissed off to know that someone was playing you thinking you were a scammer, only to not even actually be interested in what's for sale? Only to hand off the transaction to another guy to start all over with the questions? 

It's alright if you don't like me, I certainly won't lose any sleep over it. 🙂
 
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Holy crap, Now I remember why I stopped using AGN. Even one A-hole pisses me off. 

If you want to be classy and get ripped off go for it.

If you need a guy who doesn't give a crap to screen someone for you, I'll be here. I couldn't give a crap what anyone thinks of me or what I do. I'll look like an ass and waste anyone's time I want to fight scammers. I'm not going to sit back and watch. 

I haven't forgot you Big Tin. You were a jerk to me when I first started the forums.

I'm glad to see your doing well.

...going back under my rock, See ya! -Nate 

P.S. If you guys want to know what I would do to someone who ripped me off just PM me. You will be like "Wow, cool" 
 
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Would you not be a little pissed off to know that someone was playing you thinking you were a scammer, only to not even actually be interested in what's for sale? Only to hand off the transaction to another guy to start all over with the questions?
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Holy crap dude. Who is talking about playing people? I can tell you have alot of free time on your hands. I don't.

Sending an email that says. "Would you accept a Goods and Services payment if I added 4%?" is not "playing someone". I'm not talking about spending all day emailing back and forth. It just takes a few sentances to get the facts. I don't need to know anything about the gun. There is no chit chat involved.

An honest person would not mind answering one email.

Just like I don't mind wearing a mask at the store. It is inconvenient but it's better than people dying of Covid. 

You guys want to turn me into some sort of wierdo for offering to help old people safely buy airguns.

W T F

P.S. The seller would not know they were checked out. Seriously? That's why I'll handle it instead of you.
 
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