Thermal Optics for Hunting

I have been somewhat resistant to trying out any thermal optics. My ego had me thinking that using them was cheating and not giving the animals a “sporting chance.” I think @davidsng was one of the first members that caught my attention using a thermal scope on a filmed hunt. I’ve also corresponded with numerous other AGN members that use them. It wasn’t until my “Hog Duty” post where I was called upon to hunt and kill a feral hog (that I have yet to find) that I was convinced to try to incorporate thermal optics into my repertoire. When dangerous or destructive animals are in play, you want to get them out of the way ASAP. These aren’t trophy animals. I believe @airgun-hobbyist said something to that effect to me in the “Hog Duty” thread. That last line struck a chord with me.

Shortly before I became convinced to try thermal, @squirrel_getter shared a write up that he composed that I found to be helpful in highlighting and prioritizing elements of a thermal unit when shopping for them (I would like to share his write up here. I’ve already asked and he’s ok with it). This is a guide to that I think is a useful aid and introduction to thermal monoculars for those, like myself, that are not familiar with them. View attachment Thermal Monocular Guide.1640793196.pdf


Since reading this write up I’ve communicated with other members (that I’m not sure want their handles listed). I ended purchasing an entry level AGM thermal monocular (aka thermal scanner). I’ve taken it out on an attempt to call coyotes, but I was unsuccessful which isn’t a bad thing considering I was on a ranch with newborn calves that I and the rancher are concerned about being a little vulnerable. I did, however, have the opportunity to test it on that outing and it picked up my own heat signature on the ground where I’d posted while calling after I’d gotten up. It also picked up a heat signature from a spot in the woods where I urinated (hey if it picks that up it can do the same for an animal, right?) And I was able to pick up livestock and differentiate members of different species (horses vs cows) from a moderate distance in an open space. 


Considering what I learned from my testing, I anticipate incorporating a thermal monocular into my repertoire coupled with night vision and high-lumen torches affixed to my rifles to contribute to a higher success rate for night hunting. For a few hundred bucks I figured it was worth a shot. Once the unit proves successful I may start shopping for an upgraded them all monocular or a thermal rifle scope. 


For those of you using thermal optics - monoculars or scopes - what do you find most effective? How did you get into thermal? How big of an impact has it had on your hunting results?
 
I would imagine a good thermal scope would have fantastic results. Critters screaming out to be killed with their hot pink heat signatures. "Kill me! Kill me!"

I'm really keen to purchase a good thermal scope, but the prices! I can't get past the gag reflex. 

I really want one. But my brain stem has a veto when it comes to the prices. 

If I sell my motorcycle for over $10k, maybe that's where the money will come from. 
 
I would imagine a good thermal scope would have fantastic results. Critters screaming out to be killed with their hot pink heat signatures. "Kill me! Kill me!"

I'm really keen to purchase a good thermal scope, but the prices! I can't get past the gag reflex. 

I really want one. But my brain stem has a veto when it comes to the prices. 

If I sell my motorcycle for over $10k, maybe that's where the money will come from.

This is exactly why I found a thermal monocular appealing. I intend to use it to locate animals that I can illuminate or pickup through my night vision. If it proves to be that much of a game changer then it will be time to make arrangements to purchase a thermal scope. Another issue I was having was animals moving behind me in the dark while posted up and not being able to range them or have much of an idea of what sort of animal it was. 
 
I expect there are lots of members that will appreciate information to guide them in making an informed purchase. The information on the internet is so confusing and there are so many brands being hawked.

Bottom line if you desire a thermal unit for hunting small game (such as squirrels) & bird watching, etc. you will need to fork out more money for a high resolution thermal monocular or you will waste your money. The low resolution units simply don't work for these purposes. That is a given fact! However if your desired use is for larger game (such as deer or hogs) at closer distances then the lower/mid range resolution units are serviceable. But higher resolution is always better especially for small game and any intended long range use. Higher resolution units have a distinct advantage of not only helping locate the target(s) but for better identifying them. For example, determining which species you are looking at. Lower resolution units don't give this advantage. With a lower resolution unit especially at longer distances you may see a thermal image but can't readily identify it and have to resort to movement characteristics etc. to hopefully identify what is being observed. Higher resolution units will also pick up targets at much longer distances.

These are some of the more important things to remember when considering an informed purchase.

For those hunters that hunt day/night or late evening thermal monoculars have a wonderful advantage of helping you follow a blood trail to recover a shot animal. The hot blood on the ground and bushes can easily be seen in a thermal monocular. It sticks out like a sore thumb. This will allow you to quickly recover the animal provided that a kill shot was made. If wounded maybe it will lead you to the animal for a followup kill shot. It is sometimes difficult to recover shot animals that ran after a shot, especially if they go longer distances. The longer they run the less likely they will be recovered. In daylight & the dark of night, thermal units are a blessing for recovery.

Thermal units are less effective in the hot summer months in daylight hours as the trees, bushes, & ground heats up. Higher resolution units help somewhat with this issue but be aware of this when considering a purchase. Thus this is a disadvantage of a thermal unit.

I have used the red hot polarity feature the most. This is a personal preference and most thermal units offer red hot, black hot and white hot polarity.

Hope this helps.
 
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I would look into thermtec and fusion. I’ve got a local dealer that has fusion, pulsar and Bering. I believe he is bringing thermtec in too. The fusion is pretty good for the money and the thermtec has a rangefinder setup(I think it’s computer based). 
Red is a pulsar helion 2 

white hot is Bering optics superhogster 

ADF30139-DF35-4231-94E7-5DE9DF13AA33.1645741834.jpeg
53FAE500-65AB-475F-AB6E-D508A3853D6F.1645741834.jpeg

 
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Look at the AGM line over at Utah airguns. Have been tossing around the same idea....but the cost keeps pushing me away.

Yep a good unit cost $$$$. Depending on it's intended use if you get an inexpensive unit you will most likely be disappointed. Like the old saying goes"you get what you pay for". I forked out $2586.60 for a FLIR Systems Scout 3 - 640 for my intended uses. I too initially purchased a cheaper entry level unit because I did not do the research.. PM me if you want details. I will not disparage the manufacturer on this forum. However it was useless for the purpose I wanted it for but would work for other purposes.That was on me. My bad.
 
I would look into thermtec and fusion. I’ve got a local dealer that has fusion, pulsar and Bering. I believe he is bringing thermtec in too. The fusion is pretty good for the money and the thermtec has a rangefinder setup(I think it’s computer based). 
Red is a pulsar helion 2 

white hot is Bering optics superhogster 

ADF30139-DF35-4231-94E7-5DE9DF13AA33.1645741834.jpeg
53FAE500-65AB-475F-AB6E-D508A3853D6F.1645741834.jpeg

Are these thermal scopes or thermal monoculars?
 
The red is my pulsar helion2 xp50, it’s a spotter. The white hot is my Bering optics superhogster scope. Both photos are close to 100 yards. The pulsar is about double the resolution looking through the eye piece then the photos, it is also a 640 unit. The Bering optics photo is really close photo wise to the eyepiece. High humidity is the main thing that hurts thermal image, both of mine do good up to the mid 90%.


There was 2big downfalls of the agm taipan for me. The screen was too bright even on the lowest setting for me. Also when you change color pallets the lowest brightness on white hot is the highest on black hot. So your cycling through the color pallets or accidentally hit the button you get blinded. I really like the green or red hue that some of these companies offer, I think it helps with your night sight 
 
I pretty much agree with Squirrel_getter on what he said above. If you are seriously considering a thermal, then prepare to spend money. It is as simple as that. Buy an entry level scanner if you aren't sure and see if you will use it, but be prepared to want more. Don't know that I am telling you guys anything that you don't already know. I have owned an AGM Asp TM - 160, Taipan TM - 10 256, ATN Thor LT 160, ATN Thor 4 384, and an AGM Rattler TS - 25 384 so far. I am having so much fun with them, but I have not killed that much stuff with it yet. I have only had my Rattler out about 6 times so far and I could kill racoons, possums and armadillo every single night, but I have only been hog hunting. I shot a hog with it, but couldn't find it. next time I am taking a head shot, LOL. We did use the Rattler to locate my sons deer in November, right after I got it. He shot the doe right before dark and we waited about a half hour before pulling out the Rattler and looking for her. It worked really well for that.

I agree that you really need to go to at least 384 to spot small stuff. I regularly see rats, small birds, rabbits and chip monk sized animals in my AGM Rattler TS-25 384. I like the Rattler a lot, it really lets you spot game before they can see you, but it is not a magic pill. I have been out hog hunting about 4 times in the past two weeks and have seen hogs on 3 of the nights, we just couldn't get into position to shoot. It was a full moon and covering the distance to them gave us away twice. If I was using a powder burner it would have been easier, as I was trying to get within 50 yards to take a really good shot with my Texan. 

Honestly though, I want a better scope! What I have is good but I want better. It is a pay for play game though. Prices are coming down a lot, but they are still not affordable unless you are really dedicated. How many guys have multiple $1500 - $2000 guns? I made the choice to sell some guns and buy thermal. I am thinking about selling more guns and upgrading honestly. How many guns can I really use? I have like 15 airguns .... 

You could probably be content with a good scanner and a digital NV scope as the cheapest option. AGM Taipan can be had in 384 for around $1100 to $1200. The Taipan 256 I just got for a scanner works good for locating and then switching to a scope but it just isn't quite as good as the Rattler for me. Obviously, it is a 256, but the lower base magnification hinders it a little as well. There are good things coming out soon as well. I hear Pulsar has a new digital NV scope coming that has a fantastic image quality.

The prices for 640 are coming down, but It is still hard for me to do $4K on one. I am looking at getting a Super Hogster AAA or an Iray USA Bolt or Bravo. These are only 384 units but have upgraded picture quality from the regular 384 units. I am leaning towards the Bolt as the best value right now, I just have to come up with the $$ for it. 

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the major brands right now, they are mostly all putting out good stuff. AGM has upped the game, as far as offering quality for a lower price point and it is forcing the other companies to step up. Bering has been forced to add video to their units and the new hogsters that they are releasing now have video, as will the Super Hogster AAA from what I heard. Pulsar still makes fantastic stuff, as does Bering and iRay USA, Iray is pretty good, but Invision is probably the top of the line right now. I would personally avoid ATN, but the ones that I did have worked ok. Their picture quality just does not stack up in my opinion.

I will try to post some video I shot last week of some hogs, racoons and possum with the Rattler. The video doesn't look quite as good as it does in the scope, but it is close. 


 
@Cranky1 Night vision and thermal scanners seem like they’re going to blind me or hinder my vision temporarily. The light from the units cause my pupil to constrict due to the display’s illumination. Regardless of the brightness setting, the display is brighter than viewing the dark landscape with the naked eye. When I transition back to the darkness of the night it takes time for my pupil to dialate. Hence the black that I see black out of the eye that I use when using these units. The thermal scanner is a lot more forgiving in this regard than my night vision unit. The night vision display really puts a strain on my eye. The AGM thermal unit is not too bright for me. Using night vision can be physically taxing on my eye(s). I’ve spoken to another hunter about this and he has a similar issue with eye fatigue going back and forth between night vision and regular vision. Your Hogster scope has good resolution at 100 yards. I like the resolution on that photo. 
 
The pulsar scanner has a better picture then the superhogster when looking through the eyepiece. The superhogster has 4 brightness setting, my pulsar will go dimmer and using the red color pallet helps too. 

I understand the vision issues, the taipan killed my head. I think it was a combination of the internal screen brightness and eye strain. I’ve handled about 7 different agm, 2 Bering optics, a few pulsar and some others. I personally run a superhogster 384 unit and the pulsar xp50. I’ve played with several digital nightvision too. I’m hoping to look at the thermtec handheld, a 640 unit and 35mm lense. I’ve heard they have a scope coming too. If I was in an area that I wanted better videos or needed clear ID I would run the wraith 4K mini and spend extra on a thermal spotter. Most of my shots are within 50yards so ID with thermal isn’t bad. 
My nightvision guy lets me try his demo units if it’s something I’m interested in. I went superhogster because I liked the resolution and light weight, the rattler was not out at that time. I had the taipan 25 384 unit to demo and honestly couldn’t use it very long due to the eye issues. I’m excited to see the thermtec stuff, especially if the price is what I was quoted. 
 
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Now I’m wondering how much the angle of view benefits or justifies a unit with a larger objective lens. What are the benefits of a 35mm or 50mm lens over a 19mm or 25mm objective lens since these are “light gathering” lenses?

That'll depend a bit on the sensor quality, and even the software they use to process the images. My impression is you don't really need a huge objective lens if you're not doing extremely long-range shooting with large magnifications.
 
@delooper I meant “that they are not light gathering lenses.” I figured that the sensor plays a significant role, but in viewing specs I noticed that the angle of view differed in models with varying objective lens sizes. I was trying to see if there was a field of view difference between varying objective lens sizes, but didn’t find much there.
 
@delooper I meant “that they are not light gathering lenses.” I figured that the sensor plays a significant role, but in viewing specs I noticed that the angle of view differed in models with varying objective lens sizes. I was trying to see if there was a field of view difference between varying objective lens sizes, but didn’t find much there.

There probably isn't any hard-and-fast rules, but more often than not the bigger lenses will be on the higher-zoom models. I have the infiray RH-50 model, and I'm amazed at how sensitive the sensor is. It picks up tiny fractions of a degree in temperature differences -- looking at my house with it, I can easily spot where all the beams are in my walls -- presumably because they conduct heat out of the house more efficiently than insulation.