Thermal optic, or a new rifle?

I like guns, and all different kinds. This is definitely a hard choice to make. To buy a gun or thermal??? If you have a gun that serves your purpose and no thermal, then maybe lean more to thermal. The AGM is nice thermals for the money. I have a 25-256 rattler and 35-384 varmint lrf. These both work for me. But look at what you are going to use it for. Distance you are planning to shoot. Then decide on a base magnification. I like to stay around a 3 base. Because when you zoom you lose resolution. Coyote hunting couple weeks ago I watched a bobcat climb a tree with my 25-256 at 180yards. So lower resolution works, but the 384 is more clear.
 
Thermal I am not sure of to be honest have been looking at the base to mid teir of the AGM line of clip on units. I currently have none, other wise I would be getting the RimX right away ;)


I currently have a customized Sako Quad Range that is a great rifle now, but would just need a different stock for the NRL22 stuff. As well as a few other of the CZ455, CZ457 and a few other options.

As much as I would love to trade her in for a younger model........ I have grown accustomed to her and the kids I don't think would be to fond of it! Though if you have a lead on a good looking red head that likes to shoot....... hmm .... lol :D
At the price point you are looking at, I'd stay away from a thermal clip on like the plague. The 640 sensor versions of pulsar xg50, iray ch50, and berring optics yoter c are about the minimum in usefull thermal clipons. Cheapest really usefull thermal clipon, light years ahead of the above, that I am aware of is the Tigir 6z that you can sometimes find under 10k, at that price I'd find another couple k and get a big upgrade over it, although the tig is very light which is a huge plus to me. Try hanging 2lbs+ of thermal optic in front of your day scope, it sucks. I would most definitely go the route of a new high end 22 rifle, or get a thermal scope in your price range with a base magnification of at least 3x. There isn't a thermal clip on under 4.5k that gives even a remotely acceptable image through a day optic over 4x on the day scope, you would be light years ahead with a thermal scope in your price range with the highest base mag you can get to make it more versatile.

Has your wife seen that last sentence you wrote?
 
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At the price point you are looking at, I'd stay away from a thermal clip on like the plague. The 640 sensor versions of pulsar xg50, iray ch50, and berring optics yoter c are about the minimum in usefull thermal clipons. Cheapest really usefull thermal clipon, light years ahead of the above, that I am aware of is the Tigir 6z that you can sometimes find under 10k, at that price I'd find another couple k and get a big upgrade over it, although the tig is very light which is a huge plus to me. Try hanging 2lbs+ of thermal optic in front of your day scope, it sucks. I would most definitely go the route of a new high end 22 rifle, or get a thermal scope in your price range with a base magnification of at least 3x. There isn't a thermal clip on under 4.5k that gives even a remotely acceptable image through a day optic over 4x on the day scope, you would be light years ahead with a thermal scope in your price range with the highest base mag you can get to make it more versatile.

Has your wife seen that last sentence you wrote?
Of course she hasn't. Lol. Though she would roll her eyes and laugh as well.
 
At the price point you are looking at, I'd stay away from a thermal clip on like the plague. The 640 sensor versions of pulsar xg50, iray ch50, and berring optics yoter c are about the minimum in usefull thermal clipons. Cheapest really usefull thermal clipon, light years ahead of the above, that I am aware of is the Tigir 6z that you can sometimes find under 10k, at that price I'd find another couple k and get a big upgrade over it, although the tig is very light which is a huge plus to me. Try hanging 2lbs+ of thermal optic in front of your day scope, it sucks. I would most definitely go the route of a new high end 22 rifle, or get a thermal scope in your price range with a base magnification of at least 3x. There isn't a thermal clip on under 4.5k that gives even a remotely acceptable image through a day optic over 4x on the day scope, you would be light years ahead with a thermal scope in your price range with the highest base mag you can get to make it more versatile.

Has your wife seen that last sentence you wrote?

Honestly did think about the excessive weight hanging off the front of the scope. Will look at a dedicated optic as well and see what I can find.
 
Honestly did think about the excessive weight hanging off the front of the scope. Will look at a dedicated optic as well and see what I can find.
Plenty of dedicated thermal scopes that do reasonably well, even with 320 sensors. Unless you would be happy never using a 320 one at no more than 75-100 yards, you need to look at ones with a base mag of at least 3x, with that even a 320 sensor one would be fine out to 175+ yards and useable somewhat beyond depending on manufacturer and how good their image processing is and how good a display they have. Dedicated thermal scopes are so much better than budget clip ons it's like they are two entirely different technologies. If you want warranty support in the U.S., berring optics might be the place to look, they are in Texas and service their products there, something to think about over manufacture's like Iray, agm, etc.. A really nice one they offer(relatively speaking on the budget side) is the super hogster A3 384 12UM 2.9-11.6X35MM, just looking on the web they can be had for roughly 3.1k, and most reputable night vision dealers will beat their own advertised price if you call them on the phone, some brands they don't have room to do that and I don't know if berring optics is one of them. I think the best image quality in the lower budget range comes from Iray, chinese unfortunately, but they do have their image software and displays a step above most anyone else. If you can deal with chinese made thermal(not my cup of tea), worth a look, supposedly irayusa located here does do warranty work if needed, I don't really know.

I'd stay away from any that have dedicated internal batteries(what do you do when the battery loses life or fails, you are SOL) or any that only use 123 batteries, they are expensive/don't last long/and if they do take rechargeable 123's, they have very low capacity. I'd also stay away from ones that use proprietary battery packs, the markup on those things is unreal.

Little known fact about thermal, look it up and don't trust me. They all degrade over time, the better built and sealed they are the longer they last, and that can be way over a couple decades for the best of them before degradation could even be noticeable. If I was shopping on a budget for one, I'd keep it in the refrigerator when not in use, seriously.... Look that up too, temps in the mid 30's are best temp for storage on thermals. That is one of many of the reasons military thermal's are so expensive, they are built like a tank and sealed so well this is not an issue with them.
 
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Is this what you used on that Browning? https://www.flir.com/products/thermosight-hiss-xlr/ I've never seen one, but know I would love to have one briefly, until the 4lb weight brought me back to reality. I've looked through it's older brother, the 320 version of mid wave cooled. Wasn't that impressed with it compared to a voodoo-m long wave thermal. It's nice to know a couple people with more money than sense when I get to go shoot with them now and then.

Believe it or not, there are a few modern top of the line military thermals that have only been out a year or two with the military like that legally in private hands, not sure but i think there are a few hiss xlr available to the general public from one of the big night vision players, just says call for price without the mil/leo wordage on it. Bet you could get one for less than 200k, maybe. Connections and stupid money can get you most anything legally.
 
I use a 320 lt farther than 175 yards but I base power of 5x by knowing how the animals move and act you can tell what's what with some use and u can definitely tell a cow and deer at distance of 500 yards
With a base power of 5 you should have much greater ability at further ranges, my example range was for a minimum base power of 3. That would have to be digitally magnified 2x to get closer to your 5 power base mag giving the equivalent of a 160 sensor to be close to your base at 320. Huge difference, and the one with 3x base mag at 2x digital would be much worse image than yours with no digital magnification. Base magnification is where it's at with thermal scopes, you just have to decide what ranges you really want to use it at and then make your decisions on what to buy starting from there. Everyone wants it all, money can just about make it happen with only minor drawbacks. If I had just over 20k to piss away, I'd have a 17 ounce clip on that works well in front of a day scope at 15X, could be pushed higher at the cost of image quality, but the one time I got to use it, only had a scope that went up to 15X on a rifle with a rail it could be mounted to, Unfortunately, that kind of money is out of my league.
 
Thanks for the insight Karl.

The last thermal units I used were an a Browning M2 ;). And those units there is no way to get my hands on, let alone have the wife be ok with the price!

I will keep doing my reading and make sure I get something decent, as I don't want to buy something and then in 6 months it is garbage.
I don't know if you saw the pictures I posted taken with my thermal, Trijicon IR hunter MK III 35mm. I had a red tail hawk kill a rabbit 125 yards from my deck and she stayed there eating it, I took a few pictures at base mag 2.5x, 2x digital(5x), and 4x digital(10x) in bad conditions for thermal. It was warm, humidity in close to 90% range, and mist hanging in the air. With a 12 micron 640 sensor in a higher end thermal, you can get a feel for how bad 4x digital gets in poor conditions with low base magnification. I had a choice at almost the same price between it and the 60mm version with a higher base mag, given I knew my ranges using it would likely never exceed 200 yards, and 98% of the time would be well under 100 yards, I went for the weight savings of the 35mm lens. In even marginally better conditions, same humidity/temp but no mist in air, the pictures would be much better, and lower humidity another level better. I always want to see the worse I can expect rather than pretty pictures that may or may not be retouched or completely faked(think ATN) in advertising or even nice ones posted by users.

Pictures at bottom of this thread: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/thermal-optics-for-hunting.1199364/page-3#post-1417537
 
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Hey guys

Well I am looking at a few offerings from AGM and trying to narrow it down to a specific model. BUT on the other hand I am also wanting to build a custom 22lr off of a RimX action from my local dealer. What would you guys do with a decision like this? Both would be fun and I am hoping used quite a bit, but both would serve a completely different purpose.

As much as I would like to get both of them, I am thinking my wife would string me up if I did that.


So what say you guys?
You have to learn how to buy things and make them disappear for a while in your gun safe. Women are not good about looking into a safe and seeing new things. They all just blend in. 🍻 I just ordered a new DS35 night vison scope that will come and go into my safe sight unseen by the little lady of the house. Even though I can afford it, she is averse to me buying anymore rifles or scopes, sense I am a rifle looney and have good glass on everyone of them. An illness I admit!
 
Well I was working on getting things ready for the thermal when I went to my local shop and they had one of the Rim-x receivers. Well that is it for me and trying to decide what I am going to buy. I just put an order in for a KRG Whiskey 3 stock, and I am going with the 22lr on this one.

Couldn't help myself! Though this will give me more time for research and learning before I buy a thermal
 
I got the Rattler TS25 in 384 and I like it. It is light and fits into my palm nicely. I bought It and use it for scanning only (I prefer to shoot an IR scope, the Sightmark 4k mini) so I took of the mount. But it is nice to know I can mount it.

I would say 384 is the bare minimum. I definitely would love and could use higher resolution but for my backyard hunting adventures I feel $2k was already too much spent. The battery is replaceable and typically good for 4 hours of scanning with breaks. The standby function is great with instant on. I wish my IR scope had that. The one thing I don't like is the internal storage. Since I don't have it mounted it is not a big deal for me, but if you want to record and keep it mounted, you are dragging the rifle next to the computer or vice versa to offload the files. Not ideal.
 
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I got the AGM Adder, quick detachable mount came with it. You can have one scope like the Adder and switch it internally through the on screen menu for different rifle and it will remember past settings so taking it off and putting it back on something it used to be on makes it very adaptable and you can stream and record everything you shoot and download it on computer for posting on social media or whatever. 2700 dollars and I have put it on both a Vulcan 3 700mm in .30 and on my Western Air Arms Rattler in ,357. It makes invisible animals visible. Thats all I can say.......WOW. Also, your slugs/pellets get warm going down the barrel and they look like tracers and when you shoot a target you can see where your bullet went, it stays warm for a few seconds. I was so impressed I bought a matching AGM Monocular because I can scan much easier during coyote calls, as holding the rifle up each time to look got somewhat tiring. If you want to hunt varmints, which is my passion here in Nebraska, then I can think of nothing better to buy than a Thermal like this for under 3k.