There is no replacement for Displacement. ..
- Thread starter A.G.R
- Start date
Nice gun, squirrel and shot. I like my 32 and 42 fpe 25s too and they have proven to be very reliable on squirrels. But so far my 32 fpe 22 has been DRT too. Only taken 5 to date but body or head were still DRT. Last was facing away from me, the pellet entered behind the closest front leg and exited in front of the other front leg. Didn't even take one step. Nothing wrong with bigger holes but I'm wondering if 22 isn't enough. My low powered Prod is OK but seems to drop them noticably more slowly. Even with shots right through the chest side ways. But they didn't get far and were easily recovered. I think ~20 fpe works fine but 30+ kills a bit quicker.
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In my stock Prod I shoot wadcutters, @650ish, they work very well inside 25 yards.
I need to relocate before I can consider making bigger holes.
I need to relocate before I can consider making bigger holes.
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I’ve never had the opportunity to shoot one of your US squirrels, but have shot many squirrels in Africa, and lots and lots of rabbits too 
.
My observations are as follows:
Firstly I agree with AGR, there is no replacement for displacement. Many years of walking as a Professional Trails Guide in Big 5 areas have taught me that.
A 300gr from a .375 will drop a Buffalo or stop an elephant, but a .500gr from a .458 just does it BETTER, and if it’s your life on the line, well, I always carried the biggest stick I could!
So no arguments there.
But imagine this….
As far as air rifles go, I find .177 and even most .22’s over penetrate on small game. Almost every time on small game head shots and most times on chest shots, which is NOT what you want.
I don’t believe this is a fault of the caliber, or any make of rifle, I believe it is the fault of the pellet manufacturers for not making pellets that give devestating terminal performance at useable foot pounds of energy, like 10 to 20fpe. (Not 80 or 90fpe!)
So what’s the solution to over penetrating small calibers? Get a bigger caliber… maybe?
A .25cal or a .30cal pellet is definatly going to hit harder, deliver more energy into the target, give it an harder thump and make a bigger hole, yes. But, will probably still over penetrate and exit on small game.
That’s still wasted energy, and can be unsafe if you don’t know what your backstop is, blaar blaar blaar…
Imagine if you could get pellets that were designed (the lead was soft enough) to:
1- be as accurate as domed diabolo pellets can be.
2- would start deforming and mushrooming on impact, and by the time it has penetrated 5mm (quarter of an inch) it has mushroomed to twice its original bore diameter, or more!
3- dump ALL of its energy into the target and come to a dead stop with in another 5mm (quarter inch)!
With out getting too gory, that would certainly make any small game go “pop” and not take another step.
Imagine pellets like that…
.My observations are as follows:
Firstly I agree with AGR, there is no replacement for displacement. Many years of walking as a Professional Trails Guide in Big 5 areas have taught me that.
A 300gr from a .375 will drop a Buffalo or stop an elephant, but a .500gr from a .458 just does it BETTER, and if it’s your life on the line, well, I always carried the biggest stick I could!
So no arguments there.
But imagine this….
As far as air rifles go, I find .177 and even most .22’s over penetrate on small game. Almost every time on small game head shots and most times on chest shots, which is NOT what you want.
I don’t believe this is a fault of the caliber, or any make of rifle, I believe it is the fault of the pellet manufacturers for not making pellets that give devestating terminal performance at useable foot pounds of energy, like 10 to 20fpe. (Not 80 or 90fpe!)
So what’s the solution to over penetrating small calibers? Get a bigger caliber… maybe?
A .25cal or a .30cal pellet is definatly going to hit harder, deliver more energy into the target, give it an harder thump and make a bigger hole, yes. But, will probably still over penetrate and exit on small game.
That’s still wasted energy, and can be unsafe if you don’t know what your backstop is, blaar blaar blaar…
Imagine if you could get pellets that were designed (the lead was soft enough) to:
1- be as accurate as domed diabolo pellets can be.
2- would start deforming and mushrooming on impact, and by the time it has penetrated 5mm (quarter of an inch) it has mushroomed to twice its original bore diameter, or more!
3- dump ALL of its energy into the target and come to a dead stop with in another 5mm (quarter inch)!
With out getting too gory, that would certainly make any small game go “pop” and not take another step.
Imagine pellets like that…
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And until we have that, I will stick to wadcutters @9-14 fpe. They still pass thru most of the time, but make nice holes.
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In NE Ohio we have black squirrels, fox squirrels, gray squirrels and the occasional red squirrel.
For whatever reason black squirrels will sometimes have a lump on their skin about the size of a small grape. Usually a botfly larvae.
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The problem I see with projectiles which expand very easily is with placement. Hitting the ribs and lungs is much less resistance than hitting the shoulder. If a projectile hits the shoulder and expands nicely but doesn't make it past the shoulder as a result, the animal dies a slow death. I did this once on a squirrel but only once. I've heard of people hunting deer with varmint bullets. If they hit the lungs and only go through a rib the deer collapse. But if they hit the shoulder they almost certainly will not find the deer. I just don't think that is ethical.
I do not see an exit hole as a failure. I like it when the target collapses on the spot where they are hit. Are DRT. I get that result more reliably when I have an exit wound. I don't want the projectile to exit and do damage but I think it is necessary to understand what you are shooting towards and avoid taking iffy shots. If you hit, the energy of the projectile is significantly reduced by the penetration. It's the misses that I really worry about - that pellet shouldn't be headed towards things that will be damaged. Pellets that pass through are going to drop sooner and have significantly less energy if they do hit something after passing through.
I do not see an exit hole as a failure. I like it when the target collapses on the spot where they are hit. Are DRT. I get that result more reliably when I have an exit wound. I don't want the projectile to exit and do damage but I think it is necessary to understand what you are shooting towards and avoid taking iffy shots. If you hit, the energy of the projectile is significantly reduced by the penetration. It's the misses that I really worry about - that pellet shouldn't be headed towards things that will be damaged. Pellets that pass through are going to drop sooner and have significantly less energy if they do hit something after passing through.
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Over penetration isn't even remotely a problem. Rule 1 of gun safety. Know what is beyond your target. You shouldn't be taking shots in unsafe directions anyway. Misses happen and that is a heck of a lot more oomph going downrange that a little over penetration.
That being said I dont bring a 350 magnum to take care of squirrels at 20yds and I dont bring a 30S to take care of groundhogs at 30yds. Right tool for the job and whatnot. There is no gun and ammo combination that is perfect for everything
That being said I dont bring a 350 magnum to take care of squirrels at 20yds and I dont bring a 30S to take care of groundhogs at 30yds. Right tool for the job and whatnot. There is no gun and ammo combination that is perfect for everything
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Hi JimD,
You make a fair point about the possibility of not getting enough penetration to deliver a lethal shot if there is too much expansion on a scapula.
I guess we can’t have our cake, and eat it
And I completely agree with you about using frangile varmint bullets on deer… definatly not ethical.
I also agree with you and Sqwirlflugger57 about knowing ur target and what’s behind it, and knowing where your bullet/projectile is going to stop when it over penetrates.
If you are deer hunting out in the woods, you have space (or trees) for your bullet to safely come to a stop.
I bow hunt, and there is ZERO expansion or energy dump from an arrow, it relies entirely on penetration to reach vitals and be lethal. You WANT a complete pass through and you know you will need a safe backstop or some uninhabited woods for your arrow to safely come to a stop in.
In contrast, pest control with an air rifle could be out in the woods, or it could be in the back yard, the barn or the horse paddocks… and in those situations I’d dearly love to have a super mushrooming, energy dumping pellet that I knew was going to be lethal AND wasn’t going to exit my target. I’m hard to please hey?
I guess its horses for courses
Pete.
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The FX Hybrid Slug is the ammunition for you!!!I’ve never had the opportunity to shoot one of your US squirrels, but have shot many squirrels in Africa, and lots and lots of rabbits too
My observations are as follows:
Firstly I agree with AGR, there is no replacement for displacement. Many years of walking as a Professional Trails Guide in Big 5 areas have taught me that.
A 300gr from a .375 will drop a Buffalo or stop an elephant, but a .500gr from a .458 just does it BETTER, and if it’s your life on the line, well, I always carried the biggest stick I could!
So no arguments there.
But imagine this….
As far as air rifles go, I find .177 and even most .22’s over penetrate on small game. Almost every time on small game head shots and most times on chest shots, which is NOT what you want.
I don’t believe this is a fault of the caliber, or any make of rifle, I believe it is the fault of the pellet manufacturers for not making pellets that give devestating terminal performance at useable foot pounds of energy, like 10 to 20fpe. (Not 80 or 90fpe!)
So what’s the solution to over penetrating small calibers? Get a bigger caliber… maybe?
A .25cal or a .30cal pellet is definatly going to hit harder, deliver more energy into the target, give it an harder thump and make a bigger hole, yes. But, will probably still over penetrate and exit on small game.
That’s still wasted energy, and can be unsafe if you don’t know what your backstop is, blaar blaar blaar…
Imagine if you could get pellets that were designed (the lead was soft enough) to:
1- be as accurate as domed diabolo pellets can be.
2- would start deforming and mushrooming on impact, and by the time it has penetrated 5mm (quarter of an inch) it has mushroomed to twice its original bore diameter, or more!
3- dump ALL of its energy into the target and come to a dead stop with in another 5mm (quarter inch)!
With out getting too gory, that would certainly make any small game go “pop” and not take another step.
Imagine pellets like that…
It may not happen as quickly as you desire, but it definitely expands faster than any other ammunition I've shot.
This is from a full passthrough, but that round was almost completely out of gas as on exit . The video is here, I would embed it but I have posted this video far too many times already
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Yeah, about that, check back in, in a few months and tell us about your .25.I will resist calibers over .22 airguns....for now
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Ohhhh noooo
I resistttttt!
unless the lady or my dad surprised me with one....otherwise....yea I'm not going over .22
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I think you're giving him too much credit. He made it what? Two weeks after saying he wasn't getting a PCP? @iAMzehTOASTY1 just give in to the dark side. The more you fight it the more it hurts
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I'm just....I already(only) have .177 and .22 ammo(airgun)I think you're giving him too much credit. He made it what? Two weeks after saying he was getting a PCP? @iAMzehTOASTY1 just give in to the dark side. The more you fight it the more it hurts
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T
That is some impressive expansion and mushroomingThe FX Hybrid Slug is the ammunition for you!!!
It may not happen as quickly as you desire, but it definitely expands faster than any other ammunition I've shot.
View attachment 371273View attachment 371274
This is from a full passthrough, but that round was almost completely out of gas as on exit . The video is here, I would embed it but I have posted this video far too many times already
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