I read that the regulated pressure for this airgun is in the 900psi range. FPE potential is determined by average pressure x barrel volume. Lower pressure means they will need more barrel to get FPE comparable to higher pressure airguns.
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The Skout EPOCH LIVE on tABC/FB
- Thread starter JoePolanco
- Start date
The Priest - PCP similar to Impact fom Slovenia
What do you guys think? Many different colour options available and ability to have the regulated Bottle on your waist or in a backpack. So you can replace it with a 500cc CF one if you wish. Also it used CZ barrels like the Cricket and Vulcans and they are interchangable...www.airgunnation.com
I'm pretty sure the Impact was out first.
IWA 2015
To attempt to compare the EPOCH to any of these guns is actually silly. I know you guys haven't seen this gun yet so why not just wait and see. Comparing this first generation EPOCH to a 1 gen ANYTHING ABOVE is like comparing a Maibach to a Chevy. Granted RTI and FX did improve their quality over time with each iteration of their products. However, I've owned or extensively shot them all and current own the latest iteration of the Impact M3. Where fit and finish and quality are concerned, there simply isn't any fair comparison. The EPOCH comes out of the gate with far better fit and finish marks, not to mention that it's already capable of matching what I can do with my M3.
All of this is really quite irrelevant however. Once you've atually put your hands on the gun, you'll understand.
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The Epoch is out of my league and I don’t claim to know a thing about it other than watching the videos. It can’t be denied that the gun is a “game changer”. I don’t know squat about the paintball world, but the company is big in that field. They’ve obviously studied the best of what’s currently available from Daystate, FX, RTI, etc. There are lots of very astute PCPs shooters here on AGN and in a general sense. It would be foolish to put out a weak product at the asking price. So I expect for those who can afford them, it will shake up the current PCP world. And hopefully “trickle down”… Good times.
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With the exception of EBR 2022 that we (Jerry and I) were locked out of, I've been to every major competition since 2016. Jerry did "OK"? LoL... yeah, 2nd place Sportsman (tying scores with both the Pro and Sportsman winner but losing the Sportsman title by 1-X) is okay I guess. Hope I can do "okay" soon... LoL
But, I digress.... The gun is designed to get the greatest efficiency and power range while remaining a relatively low pressure system. This is why the optional 35" barrel length is available for those who choose it. The standard 25" length is more than capable of developing great power numbers, but equipped with a 25" barrel, a great deal more energy is needed (still less than any other PCP on the market of which I'm aware) to attain the power numbers desired by hunters and need to shoot slugs effectively.
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Not trying to offend anyone here but I myself am sick of everytime something new comes out it’s always RMAC this, RMAC that yada yada, the average Joe(me) has one of those things called a JOB, a life, family, etc…. That doesn’t permit them from playing around with and shooting airguns 24/7 like sponsored fanboys. I know this hobby is an addiction and have been in many arguments with wife over spending money on them lol. Point is why does every rifle that comes out the first damn thing we hear about is RMAC, ebr, etc.. you know there are other uses for these things besides competitions, I don’t need competitions to know if I’m a good shot or not
I’m done ranting 
I do love the what I hear and see on the videos of this rifle so far, a plus for me is that I only live 35miles from them so I’ll be definitely going down there to check them out when they open up for walk-in’s, I probably shouldn’t though because I know I’ll be buying one once I see it and it’s in my hands 
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When something fails to live up to expectations, it becomes quickly apparent and one of the ways that happens is being demonstrated there. Watch and see what happens to the EPOCH and draw your conclusions accordingly.
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Yes, he did well 2021. You can’t compare RMAC Sportsman to Pro, they shoot at different times not the same relay. But you already know that. EBR is different since the Sports and Pro shoot at the same relay in finals. But that’s all neither here nor there, right?
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The struggle is real! Let’s see, should I just take the money out of my 401k(done this already lol) and just tell the wife that I had the skout for 2yrs honey and she would never know or do I just sell a few rifles I don’t use
the classified’s have been flooded with rifles for sale so selling a few quick wouldn’t work, decisions, decisions Upvote 0
"...greatest efficiency and power range while remaining a relatively low pressure system..."
Greatest power should happen at the maximum pressure available. High pressure does not necessarily preclude high efficiency.
I watched an Epoch "slug power" video. They are probably running 1200+psi to get those numbers. Even that would be great efficiency.
SKOUT AIRGUNS - EPOCH® - SLUG POWER DEMONSTRATION
www.airgunnation.com I wonder what's the maximum pressure that the reg can be set for?
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I’ve asked before, Scott. The number I remember is that they claim to still be able to operate the valve up to 2400psi.
I’m not sure how much air on deck (plenum) would be needed at that psi to truly take advantage of a 35” barrel for power potential.
Dave
I’m not sure how much air on deck (plenum) would be needed at that psi to truly take advantage of a 35” barrel for power potential.
Dave
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Plenum size would be good to know. I'm guessing that the Epoch would have a fairly large plenum in order to get decent FPE at low regulated pressures. My Delta Wolf has a relatively small (34cc?) plenum. That's the main limiting factor for the Delta Wolf so it's not a 100+fpe airgun. But it can run at up to 2600psi, which helps some.
What we need to figure FPE performance potential for a given caliber is plenum size, plenum pressure, and barrel length. Assuming the airgun has sufficient port area and valve dwell, that's all we need.
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The design of the EPOCH doesn't require a large plenum due to the balanced high pressure regulator and valve system which allows it to create far greater power with far lower pressures. Regardless of that, the pressure is still available to create even more FPE should one feel it necessary. Being a target shooter myself, I had no need to crank up the HP reg beyond about 1600 PSI which produced 960 fps, faster than I would ever want to shoot the 44 grain JSBs. That translates to about 110 bar and 90 fpe. I think the HP reg is rated up to about 2900 psi or 200 bar, but I'm not certain.
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"...allows it to create far greater power with far lower pressures..."
That's not possible.
If they managed to design a regulator that has a large enough throat so that there is no restriction, than a plenum downstream from the regulator is not really needed, as the entire bottle could act as the plenum. Or maybe they are somewhere in between, where the regulator flow rate is sufficient to keep the pressure in the downstream plenum from falling off so much during the shot cycle (i.e. near instant plenum recovery).
Assuming a downstream plenum, what is it's volume? If we know that, we can determine if they have some new development in regulator flow rates, or if the performance is just a result of having sufficient plenum volume.
If we have a 25 or 30cc plenum at 1600psi and dump it all down a 35" 0.30 caliber barrel, that should get us about 960fps with a 44gr pellet. Even without any special regulator.
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In the video posted earlier in this thread, they claim that the valve flows so well that a large plenum is not necessary. (I’m not saying I agree with this)
Make the valve diameter as large as they want, it still has bore diameter downstream.
They do mention that the valve does not have to move as far to flow at maximum. This I do agree with.
Dave
Make the valve diameter as large as they want, it still has bore diameter downstream.
They do mention that the valve does not have to move as far to flow at maximum. This I do agree with.
Dave
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An instantaneous, full flow valve would not compensate for a small plenum. And there are already a few examples out there with such a valve. However, a full flow regulator would be something new, and could remove the need for a large plenum.
Given the 35” long barrel, the low pressure performance specs I’ve seen so far could be accomplished with technology already available in existing production airguns.
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It was bound to happen after 2 years and with the Alpha being the new flagship now, the price is close to where I think it should have been all along. They needed to price it lower to compete with the Impact.
I heard COVID, brexit, tariffs, etc. all messed up the launch plans and forced the Delta to come out first before the Alpha and at a higher price than originally planned. Fingers crossed that things are settling down finally.
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I haven’t read through all these Epoch threads completely yet… will you be showing the gun at the SHOT show or IWA this year?
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I'm also not understanding the reasons behind low pressure especially with the need telephone pole for barrels to produce same power as existing systems can produce with much shorter barrels. Many already made fun of FX's 800mm barrel but out comes Skout with 889mm barrel and where are long barrel jokes? LOL
Reg pressure is air pressure which is a measurement of energy/force stored in the compressed air, 1000PSI is 1000 pound of force on 1 square inch of surface area. Lower the PSI the less force there is to push on the said area. For reference a .22 bore has surface area of 0.038 squared inch, with 1000PSI of pressure means 38 pound of force is pushing on the ammo, 2000 psi means 76 pounds of pressure/force to accelerate the projectile through the length of the barrel assuming big enough plenum to keep pressure level. As Scott was saying the projectile move down the bore the volume behind the projectile increases exponentially so the plenum has to be big enough to keep the pressure from collapsing or there will be dramatic drop in pressure/force to pushing the projectile. In short both reg pressure, plenum size, air passage size and barrel length make all the difference in power/performance. Difference in valve is mere difference in opening and closing of the air passage methods as long as the air passage is equal or bigger than the bore. But plenum is cheap and easy (metal tube) to over size for the application instead of trying to figure out fancy regulator, even if there is a fancy regulator why not throw in a bigger plenum anyways?
Saying lower reg pressure is better in high power applications is like saying when drag racing it's better to use smaller engines with less horse power. Regardless what technology/mechanism an airgun use to put air behind the projectile the physics is the same! Good to hear the valve can handle 2400psi or 165 bars, it will give the gun more potential for power.
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