The semi auto vs cocking lever dilema

[51coronet]

Like some, air guns have turned into an addiction for me. What I have noticed with my small collection of .25 caliber air guns is about 40 ft lbs of energy

seems to be an industry standard with few exceptions. The exceptions list is growing but I still see new models in the 40ft lb range from plinkers to

hunters to pro target. Now getting into the semi auto realm the choices become even more slim. Getting to my main point semi auto just doesn't seem

to have many choices. I have been looking at the LCS SK19 and an FX impact M3. What I dislike about the LCS without ever holding one is the magazine and how

you must load it. What I would like in the FX is semi auto. We don't live in a perfect world so asking here. Given a choice what would you recommend? Or

recommend something else in the same price range? 80+ ft lbs or close to it in .25 is something I want to have the option of out of the box. I think both can

achieve that with the right regulator setting and ammo. 

 

[Riaandw79]

Leshiy 2 will do 80ft/lb in .25. There are longer barrel options if money is not an issue as it is a modular gun/money pit.

The issue with "semi-auto" or self-indexing is that they are not as accurate as a probe-loaded gun. Double the fun tho, so it's a trade-off, like with everything else.

 

[CyberDyneSystems]

Let me ask you a question for starters,. have you been shooting a semi-auto and know that what's you want?



Here's why i ask. Long before I got into PCP, I've been shooting and building pistols for decades. My favorite being 1911's.
So when I got into PCP, I immediately craved a semi auto like my 1911s. At least I thought I did. I ended up pre-ordering an LCS SK19. That order took months to fill,. Many months. In the meantime I picked up two side lever's and a Semi Auto SAM Marauder.

It turns out after all that I prefer the positive control one has with the sidelever. It turns out that the idea of a semi auto rifle is less appealing than the reality for me. The act of having to cock a lever, or bolt, etc. seems to force a sense of patience and calm that makes target shooting that much more enjoyable for me. The LCS remains really fun to shoot, but the SAM, not so much, so it loses most of it's appeal all together. But when I really want to put some small holes in paper, the side levers are my go to.

Additionally, the idea of safety seems more controllable with an action I must manually engage. I don;t have this issue with my pistols, but with them if they are either chambered or they are not and they are VERY easy to check or empty. With thousands of PSI of air pressure always on tap,. this is less obvious a system to me. The SAM honestly never really feels safe. So the manual aspect makes it easier, I always know when the rifle is chambered.



Of course this could all just be me, but I thought I'd ask.

 

[biohazardman]

I have both the LCS and a couple of Impacts. Whereas I could be persuaded to part with the LCS the Impacts would be the very last of the airguns I would part with.

The LCS is a great gun mind you but the Impact is just so much more versatile, a bit more accurate, and has so many FX and aftermarket parts available to make it your perfect for all reasons gun.

 

[dizzums]

i like it simple for most circumstances, on thing that turns me of about an fx is theres 'too' many setups and settings... i dont give a rats behind about competition level accuracy, the higher level guns are by far good enough for any real use outside of sitting like a zombie at a bench all day .. it would be a semi lcs for me .. probably in 22 to keep it versitile and cheap enough to shoot id actually use it alot ...

 

[wimpanzee]

i love my huben k1. it is my go to gun for small game and plinking most of the time.

up to 70ft lbs in .22, but it does have a non-removable magazine like the LCS.

 

[cmatera]

After an SK19 and two Hubens, I have given up on semi auto airguns. To me, the tradeoffs for the very few times it is actually useful are not worth it.

 

[theLBC]

i would say it completely depends on what types of shooting you enjoy, and if you actually need to shoot follow up shots quickly or not.

if you like shooting small groups on paper, i don't see much appeal for the semi, but if you like shooting rows of plates, speed might be king.

personally, i like having the potential capability to send multiple rounds downrange, on target, before the first shot hits.

if you have no need for that, then the simple reliability and accuracy of a manual loader might be preferable.

https://youtu.be/Jj2MHzkHwg0

 

[51coronet]

Thanks for the replies. I did start to look at the edgun. Very nice pistol/carbine or whatever it should be called. It seems the price can get to the absurd levels if you plan on getting

a few other available parts. It has crossed my mind for sure and has not been eliminated. To answer Cyberdynesystems about the semi vs single shot. Honestly I do not know for sure but think I would prefer the semi auto in most cases. If the gun is capable of half dollar size at 50 yards or better as long as I do my part I am good with that today. Tomorrow may bring the desire for more accuracy but that means a dedicated bench gun. Haha another reason to buy more!

I was starting to lean towards an FX impact MK3 and the replies seem to agree so far.

 

[Gerry52]

+1 for Cyberdynesystems! Semi-automatic is FUN, for sure but in the search for accuracy , controlability & SAFETY the lever does it all. 

 

[theLBC]

one nice thing about the leshiy 2 is you can disconnect the power source easily and quickly to make the gun "safe".

 

[ChRiSiS]

I have three semi-auto guns; the Leshiy 2, a Huben K1 .22 and a Steyr Pro X. I also have a few side lever guns, all by FX (Crowns, Impacts and a Dreamline). I love my semi-autos and did a review of them here https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/my-perspective-on-3-semi-auto-airguns-huben-k1-leshiy-2-and-steyr-pro-x/?referrer=1

However I also absolutely love my Impacts, Crowns, etc. There is no question that the Impact M3 is “more” accurate than say, the L2 or the Huben (so far, at 25-50 yards the Steyr is about as accurate as any gun I have). However one has to ask, how much accuracy do you need? If they all shoot into the same hole at 25 yards, does it really matter that the Impact M3 .30 shoots a .30” hole while the L2 makes a .40” hole and the Huben a .45” 0ne? On a steel IPSC target at 50 yards I can do a mag dump, offhand, with the L2 or the Huben into the head portion of the target, all 8 shots in a couple of seconds hitting inside a 5 inch circle. I can do the same with the Impact, but it takes much more time to shoot, cock, reacquire the target, then shoot again, rinse and repeat…

The Huben is most like the LCS-19 you mention, in that they both have non-removable magazines. But essentially, when shooting some of the differences fade away. However the Semi versus side lever difference is always there. They are very different, but both are satisfying. For me, I couldn’t choose between them, and fortunately i am lucky enough to not have to choose. I think you’ll be happy whichever way you go, but leave some room in your mind for the other one. You’re probably gonna get both eventually. maybe together, maybe sequentially, but if you’ve got the bug its gonna bite

Chris

 

[theLBC]

I have three semi-auto guns; the Leshiy 2, a Huben K1 .22 and a Steyr Pro X. I also have a few side lever guns, all by FX (Crowns, Impacts and a Dreamline). I love my semi-autos and did a review of them here https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/my-perspective-on-3-semi-auto-airguns-huben-k1-leshiy-2-and-steyr-pro-x/?referrer=1

However I also absolutely love my Impacts, Crowns, etc. There is no question that the Impact M3 is “more” accurate than say, the L2 or the Huben (so far, at 25-50 yards the Steyr is about as accurate as any gun I have). However one has to ask, how much accuracy do you need? If they all shoot into the same hole at 25 yards, does it really matter that the Impact M3 .30 shoots a .30” hole while the L2 makes a .40” hole and the Huben a .45” 0ne? On a steel IPSC target at 50 yards I can do a mag dump, offhand, with the L2 or the Huben into the head portion of the target, all 8 shots in a couple of seconds hitting inside a 5 inch circle. I can do the same with the Impact, but it takes much more time to shoot, cock, reacquire the target, then shoot again, rinse and repeat…

The Huben is most like the LCS-19 you mention, in that they both have non-removable magazines. But essentially, when shooting some of the differences fade away. However the Semi versus side lever difference is always there. They are very different, but both are satisfying. For me, I couldn’t choose between them, and fortunately i am lucky enough to not have to choose. I think you’ll be happy whichever way you go, but leave some room in your mind for the other one. You’re probably gonna get both eventually. maybe together, maybe sequentially, but if you’ve got the bug its gonna bite

Chris

that's what i was referring to exactly. some will find this capability appealing or useful, some will not.

this is right after i got the L2 so no real trigger time, but i had put my wraith on in to sight it in, and decided to do a mag dump.

you have to slow it down to 1/2 speed to see all 8 shots clearly, and i am sure i can do it faster now (this is with a bipod and bag from only 10 yds).

https://youtu.be/Od8kOn29J1c

 

[ChRiSiS]

I have three semi-auto guns; the Leshiy 2, a Huben K1 .22 and a Steyr Pro X. I also have a few side lever guns, all by FX (Crowns, Impacts and a Dreamline). I love my semi-autos and did a review of them here https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/my-perspective-on-3-semi-auto-airguns-huben-k1-leshiy-2-and-steyr-pro-x/?referrer=1

However I also absolutely love my Impacts, Crowns, etc. There is no question that the Impact M3 is “more” accurate than say, the L2 or the Huben (so far, at 25-50 yards the Steyr is about as accurate as any gun I have). However one has to ask, how much accuracy do you need? If they all shoot into the same hole at 25 yards, does it really matter that the Impact M3 .30 shoots a .30” hole while the L2 makes a .40” hole and the Huben a .45” 0ne? On a steel IPSC target at 50 yards I can do a mag dump, offhand, with the L2 or the Huben into the head portion of the target, all 8 shots in a couple of seconds hitting inside a 5 inch circle. I can do the same with the Impact, but it takes much more time to shoot, cock, reacquire the target, then shoot again, rinse and repeat…

The Huben is most like the LCS-19 you mention, in that they both have non-removable magazines. But essentially, when shooting some of the differences fade away. However the Semi versus side lever difference is always there. They are very different, but both are satisfying. For me, I couldn’t choose between them, and fortunately i am lucky enough to not have to choose. I think you’ll be happy whichever way you go, but leave some room in your mind for the other one. You’re probably gonna get both eventually. maybe together, maybe sequentially, but if you’ve got the bug its gonna bite <img alt="" class="emoji" src=" />//www.w3.org/2000/svg%22%20viewBox=%220%200%20210%20140%22%3E%3C/svg%3E

Chris

that's what i was referring to exactly. some will find this capability appealing or useful, some will not.

this is right after i got the L2 so no real trigger time, but i had put my wraith on in to sight it in, and decided to do a mag dump.

you have to slow it down to 1/2 speed to see all 8 shots clearly, and i am sure i can do it faster now (this is with a bipod and bag from only 10 yds).



https://youtu.be/Od8kOn29J1c

It sure is fun though, isn’t it?

 

[theLBC]

I have three semi-auto guns; the Leshiy 2, a Huben K1 .22 and a Steyr Pro X. I also have a few side lever guns, all by FX (Crowns, Impacts and a Dreamline). I love my semi-autos and did a review of them here https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/my-perspective-on-3-semi-auto-airguns-huben-k1-leshiy-2-and-steyr-pro-x/?referrer=1

However I also absolutely love my Impacts, Crowns, etc. There is no question that the Impact M3 is “more” accurate than say, the L2 or the Huben (so far, at 25-50 yards the Steyr is about as accurate as any gun I have). However one has to ask, how much accuracy do you need? If they all shoot into the same hole at 25 yards, does it really matter that the Impact M3 .30 shoots a .30” hole while the L2 makes a .40” hole and the Huben a .45” 0ne? On a steel IPSC target at 50 yards I can do a mag dump, offhand, with the L2 or the Huben into the head portion of the target, all 8 shots in a couple of seconds hitting inside a 5 inch circle. I can do the same with the Impact, but it takes much more time to shoot, cock, reacquire the target, then shoot again, rinse and repeat…

The Huben is most like the LCS-19 you mention, in that they both have non-removable magazines. But essentially, when shooting some of the differences fade away. However the Semi versus side lever difference is always there. They are very different, but both are satisfying. For me, I couldn’t choose between them, and fortunately i am lucky enough to not have to choose. I think you’ll be happy whichever way you go, but leave some room in your mind for the other one. You’re probably gonna get both eventually. maybe together, maybe sequentially, but if you’ve got the bug its gonna bite <img alt="

" class="emoji" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.4/svg/1f60e.svg" />//www.w3.org/2000/svg%22%20viewBox=%220%200%20210%20140%22%3E%3C/svg%3E//www.w3.org/2000/svg%22%20viewBox=%220%200%20210%20140%22%3E%3C/svg%3E

Chris

that's what i was referring to exactly. some will find this capability appealing or useful, some will not.

this is right after i got the L2 so no real trigger time, but i had put my wraith on in to sight it in, and decided to do a mag dump.

you have to slow it down to 1/2 speed to see all 8 shots clearly, and i am sure i can do it faster now (this is with a bipod and bag from only 10 yds).





https://youtu.be/Od8kOn29J1c

It sure is fun though, isn’t it?

seriously fun, especially being able to do it inside the condo.

 

[JimD]

I find my two side lever guns significantly more fun to use than my one bolt PCP or my bolt action powder burners. Much easier to get off quick shots. I don't have a semi auto rifle in air or powder. Maybe I would love one if I shot it but I've never seen the need. I like the design of the Huben but cleaning it seems to be pretty difficult. Loading it in the field on a cold day also seems like a hassle.

 

[CyberDyneSystems]

Chris makes a good point, in the end, the best of both worlds is the way to go. So start with side lever. If you still feel your missing semiauto, then there it is. Eventually EVERYONE who shoots one PCP ends up with more than one PCP!

 

[ChRiSiS]

Eventually EVERYONE who shoots one PCP ends up with more than one PCP!

Absolutely!!

 

[TDK]

I can cycle the side-lever on my M3 without taking my hand off the grip, and don't have to come off the scope to do it. It cycles faster than a bolt-action firearm, probably similar speed to if you worked a lever-action firearm swiftly. Keep in mind, not all side-levers are the same, even FX. I held a Wildcat and instinctively went for the lever and it was out of reach. I would have to take my hand off the grip for that one. All side-levers are going to easily beat bolt action PCPs in speed, and cycling enjoyment.

If you are looking for an super fast offhand blaster, then probably only a semi-auto is going to make you happy. A good side-lever will still offer fairly fast follow up shots if that is one of your main concerns.

 

[Haganaga]

Like they’ve said, it’s what you want it for. I ended up with the Steyr H5 semi automatic and here’s why I love it. For hunting it’s very useful. When the ranges get long and the wind is affecting the pellet, it’s nice to see the pellet splash if it’s a miss. You can just move the poi inside the scope and fire a quick follow up shot. I’ve done this on numerous occasions where if I had to rack a lever or bolt I would lose the scope picture or the ground squirrel would move. The squirrel’s first instinct is to freeze when a miss occurs near them, but only for a second or two. With the Steyr it’s no problem for a quick follow up re-adjusted shot.

The second reason I love my Steyr is with multiple targets. Got two ground squirrels hanging out? No problem. First one goes down leaves the other on puzzled, but not for long. My record is three in a row. That was a lot of fun. Had a small pile at the bottom of a tree trunk. 


But if you’re good enough to read the wind perfectly and have the correct elevation that your first shot is always on the cross hairs then all this is unnecessary. I’m not. I can get the elevation close as well as the wind, but seeing the real world hit then line up the target where it struck and just re pull the trigger has turned misses into kills.