The New .22cal PelletgageR...Pellet Sorting Simplified

Hi everybody! Here is the latest Baker Airguns review video. This one is on the PelletgageR in .22 caliber. That's right! The PelletgageR, the most time saving pellet sorting device ever created, is now available in .22 caliber as well as .177! The first link is to the written article. The second is to the Youtube video. I suggest taking them both in for the full story.

Link to the written article here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCSFQhS-thA
 
This is really cool as I have been weighing pellets and I see it makes a difference. One concern though between the original and the new R. Tolerance on the pellets in the original would be .10 micron as stated in the article. Wouldn't pellets sorted through the R have a tolerance of .20 if you are using a 4.52 plate on top and a 4.50 on the bottom? In order to get the same tolerance as the original it would have to be 4.52 on top and 4.51 on bottom. Let me know if I am missing something here as that is what I got out of the article. 
 
This is really cool as I have been weighing pellets and I see it makes a difference. One concern though between the original and the new R. Tolerance on the pellets in the original would be .10 micron as stated in the article. Wouldn't pellets sorted through the R have a tolerance of .20 if you are using a 4.52 plate on top and a 4.50 on the bottom? In order to get the same tolerance as the original it would have to be 4.52 on top and 4.51 on bottom. Let me know if I am missing something here as that is what I got out of the article.

0.1 micron is 0.000003937008"

0.2 micron is 0.000007874016

No air gun would know the difference in any noticeable way. 
In fact the only way to measure that difference is with air gauges, lasers, and maybe Helios 000 grade instrumentation.
 
This is really cool as I have been weighing pellets and I see it makes a difference. One concern though between the original and the new R. Tolerance on the pellets in the original would be .10 micron as stated in the article. Wouldn't pellets sorted through the R have a tolerance of .20 if you are using a 4.52 plate on top and a 4.50 on the bottom? In order to get the same tolerance as the original it would have to be 4.52 on top and 4.51 on bottom. Let me know if I am missing something here as that is what I got out of the article.


The original Pelletgage has apertures that are 10 micron, or 1/100th or a millimeter, apart from one another. 4.49mm, 4.50mm, 4.51mm...and so forth. The tolerance, if I remember correctly, for each aperture is 1/10,000 of a millimeter. 

-Donnie
 
The best laser cutters can hold +\- .0005” if everything is running just perfect...and those are ultra rare. The idea that you can cut holes perfectly round by x and y interpolation at .0004” (.01 millimeter) increments is dubious at best.



I certainly defer to your expertise in this area, Mike.

A quick google search confirms the precision of the best laser cutters as +/- .0005".

Clearly I didn't remember correctly.

I might have been thinking .0001".

Still, whatever the precision of the Pelletgage may be....I've never found another product better suited for sorting a consistent headsize.

-Donnie
 
Hello, all,

The Pelletgage plates are cut on a bed-type diode pumped fiber optic laser. The beam is also focused with a condensing lens to minimize the kerf. The (very expensive) machine that does this is optimized for cutting thin sheets of metal, and focused/setup to cut 0.2 mm thickness stainless steel - an alloy with very fine grain that has been hot rolled, then cold rolled and annealed. Both the metal sheets and the specialized machine permit far more accuracy than a typical industrial laser or plasma cutter. It requires a rather long (and expensive) time on the laser to cut apertures and engrave the diameters on the sheets.

Quality diabolo airgun pellets have been sold for many years with 0.01 mm increments, i.e. 4.50, 4.51, I'm told that criticality is often some minimum or maximum head size in which case, going above or below that point causes bigger groups. It is sometimes a matter of too much head size variance within a tin of pellets, as well. I also believe that the head size of slugs is more critical than diabolo pellets.

That 0.01 mm increment of nominal pellet sizes sold today is 0.0004 inches. Although this is a tiny change in diameter, it does make a difference in many guns, and the pellets DO vary much more than this, either due to manufacturing tooling or to undesired variances. I have always advised that checking and/or sorting pellets is only of value if your equipment and skills are somewhat advanced - it may be useless if shooting cheaper pellets from a big box store rifle, but it will have real value for competitive shooters and hunters using good equipment.

The apertures on all Pelletgages are verified during setup by my supplier (and again by me at receipt) using Class X Plug gages, These are NIST traceable and accurate to +0.001/-zero mm (+0.00004/-zero inches). My sets (Metric X PPM25) have 25 gages in steps of 0.0025 mm (0.0001 inch). I'd suggest anyone who needs to positively find the width/diameter of a slot or aperture should get a set (they are also sold individually) to check this. Delltronic is a good company, although they only sell through regional distributors - depending on your location.

https://www.deltronic.com/literature/Deltronic-Gage-Guide-2014.pdf

Pelletgage apertures are guaranteed to be 0.0025 mm of nominal. Typically, a plug gage inserted into the same nominal size apertures enters with an interference fit, and it is impossible to insert the 4.5225 plug into a 4.52 aperture, while the 4.5175 plug slides in easily.

It might be interesting to see a specified and guaranteed rifle bore tolerance and guarantee, or similarly, for pellets. Unfortunately, I don't see that yet.

regards,

Jerry

“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of Science, whatever the matter may be.” Lord Kelvin, 1883

"Head size matters." Jerry Cupples, 2015
 
Yes, Mike. Just like that.

I have had two returns in better than five years. One who complained that every BB was falling through the smallest slot in a .177 gage (4.46 mm) and one who said the 4.52 aperture was oversized. 

The BB guy was surprised that BB's were not really .177, and shortly afterwards, I had cut the first BBgage in a smaller diameter range. He was very happy to exchange the .177 Pelletgage.

The other customer returned the Pelletgage, and I confirmed the 4.52 aperture was >4.525 mm, so I sent him a new one. The other nine apertures in the gage were OK. When asked, he told me that the gage had been used for re-sizing thousands of pellets, which I don't recommend - but he got a new one free.

cheers,

Jerry
 
This is really cool as I have been weighing pellets and I see it makes a difference. One concern though between the original and the new R. Tolerance on the pellets in the original would be .10 micron as stated in the article. Wouldn't pellets sorted through the R have a tolerance of .20 if you are using a 4.52 plate on top and a 4.50 on the bottom? In order to get the same tolerance as the original it would have to be 4.52 on top and 4.51 on bottom. Let me know if I am missing something here as that is what I got out of the article.

Forgive any 'splaining' that steps on expertise beyond my guesses, but start with this.

one mm is a thousandth of a meter, or 0.039 inches. So, 0.01 mm is 0.0004 inches. That's the incremental nominal size step commonly offered when buying pellets.

The real tolerance of most pellets is thus implied, but not stated. That is, you buy 4.51 mm pellets and this would seem to mean that they are within +/- 0.005 mm (+/- 0.0002 in).

A micron is 1 x 10-e6 meter, a millionth of a meter, 0.001 mm (a thousandth of a millimeter), or 0.00004 inches. So, the steps of the apertures on the gage are not .10 microns, but 10 microns, 0.01 mm, which is 0.0004 inches. The apertures are guaranteed to be within +/- 0.0025 mm (two and half microns) of nominal.

I advise my customers who wish to sort out 4.51 pellets to use a combination of a 4.52 and a 4.50 mm PelletgageR. This way, you know that the sorted pellets are smaller than 4.52, and larger than 4.50. This because sorting for a tighter range is quite likely to yield few pellets from typical tins. If sorted in that manner, pellets should be 4.51 +/- 0.01 mm - ten micron variance from the center of the range (what I think of as tolerance). One caveat:

The gage apertures themselves do have some tolerance, specified by me as +/- 0.0025. So, if the 4.53 was really 4.5325 and the 4.51 was 4.5075 the range could be five microns greater, although there is no good way to confirm that. Coordinate measuring machines and optical comparators can't do it. 

I have considered having the Pelletgage plates calibrated by an NIST traceable lab, which could be done, but would add a big percentage to the price of the Pelletgage. 

regards,

Jerry
 
I'm reading this and not trying to do anything but get clarification. I'm all for the PelletGauge; because I shoot springers also. 
Now I KNOW both Jerry & Mike know a whole lot more than I do about machining, math, instrumentation, and what a Gun likes. 
But tell that to my professionally tuned, buttoned piston R1 & HW77K SE .22's. One likes 5.54mm 14.66 H&N FTT & one prefers 5.53mm 14.66 H&N FTT's. 


This post from Mike, designer of Thee Indisputably best BR .177 AG ever designed, Thomas AG, says head size does not matter.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/sorting-pellets-for-precision/

Now, again I know nothing compared to these Gentlemen. But I'm asking Mike. Does this apply to only PCP's?
Because my springers, and about 50 others in the past, disagree that head size doesn't matter. I'm wondering if my lead in's are far from perfect on some rifles. 
When I seat a pellet in a springer, I make sure I seat it as straight as possible when engaging the rifling. I don't just stick one in there cocked & shove. I even have old archery brass sights to set a consistent depth of the skirt slightly so no clipping may occur. 
In saying head size doesn't matter I have a ton of undersized .177's that I must close break barrel with it barrel down. Or, the undersized heads can fall back out. But amazingly that gun & HW30 will send them precisely where I want at 20-40 yards in no wind. 
I have obviously noticed that most choked barrel PCP's will shoot most anything if power to weight is adjusted and I re-zero for different pellets.

Please clear this up in layman's (ignorant folk) terminology. 
Thank you kindly in advance. 
 
If your barrel land dimension is so loose that the rifling does not engrave the head, then finding something bigger will surely help. That’s just a bad barrel design based on the current pellet offerings.

The pellet cannot rattle down the bore and be expected to go straight. It must be fully supported head and tail...and the support must be concentric to one another.

Let’s leave this thread lie...and post in the other. I was simply questioning the claimed accuracy based on the machinery available to make the holes.

Mike 






 
I will answer any questions about Pelletgage, and absolutely stand by the claim that every aperture in every Pelletgage is within +/- 0.0025 mm (0.0001 inches) of the indicated nominal diameter, apart from any unusual wear or mistreatment. And I guess this proves (inviting alternate reasoning) that a machine with the capability to make high precision cuts in thin sheet metal exists (and has for years).