The most accurate high power fixed barrel springer/gas ram is....?

[intenseaty22]

Hard to say as I have not recovered them. I did switch ammo and started shooting the lighter pellets. Got a good clean on the last one, with a good placed vitals shot. Thread below. 


>>> https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/22-lgvs-redemption-song/

 

[brad870]

Well if you consider a HW77K or HW97K high power then they got my vote. Take your pick.

 

[Ironox]

Well if you consider a HW77K or HW97K high power then they got my vote. Take your pick.

Brad, I’m looking closely at the HW77. I like having iron sights as an option. Hatsan, Diana offerings ad well. 

 

[brad870]

Well help is on the way. Here is mine. My very first Weihrauch.

 

[genericAGuser]

An AGN member and personal friend killed four squirrels yesterday with his HW97K Sub 12lb rifle. I have a TX200 in .177 (16 lbs custom tuned) and an HW97K in .22 (14.5 lbs) - both tack drivers - wouldn't hesitate to hunt with either of them. I am not sure you need magnum power.

I do have a Diana 56 target hunter in .22 on order. It has now been on backorder from PA for more than 6 weeks. Having previously owned two 54 Air Kings, I am anxious to see how it performs. If I wanted a lot of power in a springer, I would consider a 54 Air King...

All you fellows bragging about those high end german and english underlevers, I'm curious to know if they are that accurate for hunting right out of the box or are they all tuned to get to that level of braggery??

Thanks
Ray

P.S. didn't mean to hijack this thread. Just thought that question would be interesting to hear the answer.

I have a 2009 Diana 460mag .22, and right out of the box, my buddy and I take it out back. We set up on an electrical box and start shooting cans at about 100 feet, open sites. Some fall over and I start shooting their ends. My buddy is starting to be impressed. We pull out an antifreeze jug and start shooting the colors on the tag. He says, hey, shoot the handle on the jug. It’s about an inch wide. I tell him I’ll try but I can’t really see it. Fist shot, believe me or not, I grazed the handle on the top. He didn’t believe me at first. My rifle is simply amazing and I’ll never part with it. So mine was very accurate. 

 

[Guest]

High Power? Usually that means something that delivers more than about 17 FPE with the really high power guns delivering more than 20 FPE. It probably wouldn't hurt to define your understanding of high power and perhaps give a little information about your intended use for the gun.

I have found that I like what many would call medium power rifles. I've owned guns that deliver more than 20 FPE. I did not like the accuracy I got with those rifles so I had them tuned. Now they deliver about 17 FPE and will pass the ten dimes challenge. For most hunting applications the best compromise between accuracy and power will be found around 700 (.22) to 850 (.177) fps. That's not hard and fast, just sort of a rule of thumb. You want something that shoots flat enough out to the maximum "effective" range of your rifle to preclude having to worry about range estimation. At the same time you want something that shoots sweet enough that it is easy to shoot accurately. For me that means a rifle that is about 14 FPE in .177 and 16+ FPE in .22. I've had good luck in those power levels.

You want to know what the most accurate high power fixed barrel springer/gas ram is .... There is no correct answer to that one. The Walther LGU, the TX200, the Weirauchs, all good rifles. If you are in for a good mid-power less expensive good bang for the buck rifle the Diana Model 34 in .177 is hard to beat.

 

[Windmill01]

+1 on what Oldspook said. 

It’s a toss up between my Hw77 and Lgv Competition Ultra for accuracy, they are both fac rated. The Hw77 I believe is 24 or 25 joule (maybe higher, I’m not sure) and the Lgv is 23 joule. I shoot H&N Greens in both, 12.65 in the 77 and 9.56 in the Walther. From my experience the Greens have provided me with a flatter trajectory especially in my Walther. With both rifles dialed in at 30 metres, they are very deadly hunters.

Now my third 22 cal rifle is a Benjamin Titan. I use H&N FTT 14.65 grain pellets. This rifle is also accurate, not in the same league mind you as the other two but at 30 metres and if I’m in sync with the trigger can place 8 out of 10 pellets in a half inch circle. This rifle shoots these pellets at about 16.5 fpe and most times is my go to rifle for dispatching pests. I know two of these rifles are break barrel but i wanted to include them as comparisons. Now I really like my Hw77 but for the dollars my Titan is hard to beat. 

Gary

 

[Ironox]

+1 on what Oldspook said. 

It’s a toss up between my Hw77 and Lgv Competition Ultra for accuracy, they are both fac rated. The Hw77 I believe is 24 or 25 joule (maybe higher, I’m not sure) and the Lgv is 23 joule. I shoot H&N Greens in both, 12.65 in the 77 and 9.56 in the Walther. From my experience the Greens have provided me with a flatter trajectory especially in my Walther. With both rifles dialed in at 30 metres, they are very deadly hunters.

Now my third 22 cal rifle is a Benjamin Titan. I use H&N FTT 14.65 grain pellets. This rifle is also accurate, not in the same league mind you as the other two but at 30 metres and if I’m in sync with the trigger can place 8 out of 10 pellets in a half inch circle. This rifle shoots these pellets at about 16.5 fpe and most times is my go to rifle for dispatching pests. I know two of these rifles are break barrel but i wanted to include them as comparisons. Now I really like my Hw77 but for the dollars my Titan is hard to beat. 

Gary

Thank you all for your terrific thoughts and recommendations. The quote above-and others, served to give me pause. I was hoping to find a fix barrel that generated 20 fpe accurately. Preferably in 22 cal. And using alloy pellets. Perhaps it’s not possible-unless I explore pcp’s. . I have a Marauder and find it just okay. Something about pcp’s leaves me cold. I have plenty of rim fires to satisfy that need. 

 

[Michigander]

Just curious, what is it you hope to do with 20 fpe that couldn't be done with 16 fpe? And why alloy pellets? They are usually lighter. Energy transfer will be higher with a heavier pellet, and they will hold that energy better downrange due to higher BC. Trajectories will not be much different, if at all, once both are zeroed for the same distance.

You might look at the HW97K in .20 caliber. Pellets available in the same weights as .22, but with higher BC for better trajectory, better energy retention, and better penetration on game. I used .20 caliber for hunting for many years, and penetration was always impressive. Even at 16 fpe velocity will be over 700 fps, and once zeroed at 35 yards POI will be within 0.5" from 10 to 40 yards, perfect for the squirrel hunting I still do occasionally.

 

[blackdiesel]

Dianas are the closest to pcps for accuracy and power in my opinion. I have a few and the D54 & D56 always surprise me with their performance. I also have a HW97k and LGU. They are all outstanding but considering both accuracy and power, I think that the D56 and D54 are the best combination 

 

[Ironox]

Just curious, what is it you hope to do with 20 fpe that couldn't be done with 16 fpe? And why alloy pellets? They are usually lighter. Energy transfer will be higher with a heavier pellet, and they will hold that energy better downrange due to higher BC. Trajectories will not be much different, if at all, once both are zeroed for the same distance.

You might look at the HW97K in .20 caliber. Pellets available in the same weights as .22, but with higher BC for better trajectory, better energy retention, and better penetration on game. I used .20 caliber for hunting for many years, and penetration was always impressive. Even at 16 fpe velocity will be over 700 fps, and once zeroed at 35 yards POI will be within 0.5" from 10 to 40 yards, perfect for the squirrel hunting I still do occasionally.

The 20 fpe target is arbitrary for the most part. I shot a Gamo rifle that produced 25 fpe, but found the shot cycle harsh and the action loud. It wasn’t very comfortable to shoot. I figured that there must be rifles with much better actions capable of producing around 20fpe. Regarding pellet choice, it’s simple a matter of not wanting to sprinkle lead around the property. Whether or not it’s a environmental hazard is debatable I haven’t considered 20 cal, as I have rifles that are 22 cal. Maybe 20 cal is the way to go. 

 

[shawnlyndy]

Couple of groups shot this morning with my Asp20 .177. Shooting at 25 yards with 10.5 grain crosman supremes. Over 920 fps 19 foot-pounds and dead nuts accurate.

 

[Michigander]

Unfortunately I don't think there are alloy pellets available in .20 caliber, so maybe that rules it out for you. I just think that .20 caliber is a better choice than .22 for springers, mostly because of the superior ballistics at springer energy levels.

 

[brad870]

None of my guns are tuned. Weihrauch guns don't need it.

 

[Windmill01]

I know basically nothing about ballistics but all I know is that my Lgv at 30 metres can push a 9.56 grain H&N Fft Green pellet three quarters of the way through a bar of Dove soap. My Hw77 can make a clean hole at the same distance shooting a Baracuda Green 12.65 grain pellet. I also have Baracuda Green 12.96 grain pellets but my Lgv doesn’t like these as much. The difference in weight between the green pellets I shoot in my Hw77 and the lead Ftt’s I shoot in my Trail is 2.01 grain. Both rifles are 22 cal. The Hw77 is extremely accurate and shooting 12.65 grain Greens I can take pest birds and rabbits and hares out to 40 metres (my ethical hunting distance).

I don’t own a 20 cal and a lot of people on this forum really like them but my 22 cal rifles meet my needs. Maybe one day I might get on but I’ve read that there is less choice in pellet selection. The hole on the left is the Lgv and the pass through hole Is the Hw77.

Gary

Ps. The wife didn’t appreciate me useing the Dove soap.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Don’t forget the Sig ASP20 in 22. 23 foot pounds and accurate.

True ! But not a FIXED barrel !

 

[Windmill01]

I just noticed something. If you enlarge the photo of my soap look at middle left. A couple of whistler ducks coming up from the front dam.

Gary

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Couple of groups shot this morning with my Asp20 .177. Shooting at 25 yards with 10.5 grain crosman supremes. Over 920 fps 19 foot-pounds and dead nuts accurate.

Good shooting! Especially for a break barrel !

 

[Michigander]

Windmill, you got me wondering exactly what would be the difference between a .20 and .22 pellet of roughly the same weight if shot from guns having the same muzzle energy. And here is the answer using a .20 caliber BC obtained from my own Harrier data, and the .22 caliber BC from the HAM tables.

Once zeroed for the same distance of 35 yards, trajectories are essentially identical. The only difference I can find is that the .20 pellet, due to higher BC retains more energy at 50 yards, 11.5 fpe versus 9.2 fpe for the .22 pellet, and I doubt the soap could tell the difference. Hopefully that clears things up.

 

[Michigander]

Actually I did miss one other difference in the .20 versus .22 scenario, wind drift. At 50 yards in a 5 mph crosswind I get 1.6" drift for the .20 13.73 grain pellet, and 2.7" drift for the .22 12.35 grain pellet, again due to the difference in BC. I suppose that could affect practical accuracy at longer distances.