so then we should rule out the elbow planted in the side (hip) in the standing position as the point of contact travels down the leg and touches the ground ?
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The history of FT rules?
- Thread starter SqrlHntr
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I have seen it used for high up tree shots , and rules say you can use bum bag for a back rest in that position . but there is even clarification on that .
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IT is all very confusing. I go to a match and all classes are shooting at the same time so to a newbie just watching a match it looks like anything go's .
I think i will be shooting WFTF
I think i will be shooting WFTF
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Also, I would expect prone to be legal, but I can see how someone can interpret resting the gun on a fist in contact with the ground as prone. Maybe the answer to allowing prone is to explicitly define what type of prone position is allowed. For example, prone as defined by NRA 3-position rules. But, I also think prone should not be expected as a valid position on every lane/target. It's a position available to the shooter when the circumstances allow it. Just like shooting a low sitting position may not be a valid position if there is a bump in the terrain between you and the target.
Things should be clarified or disallowed when it breaks the spirit of the rules. There are types of people that enjoy finding the loopholes in rulesets, and those loopholes get closed and clarified overtime as the rule makers decided it is against the original intent. But to outright ban prone because you don't want to clarify what prone is, that's lazy; or intentional because the rule maker wants to prevent a good prone shooter from winning. I highly doubt the traditional prone position, as shot in 3-position competition, was every considered not part of the spirit of the original ruleset.
Things should be clarified or disallowed when it breaks the spirit of the rules. There are types of people that enjoy finding the loopholes in rulesets, and those loopholes get closed and clarified overtime as the rule makers decided it is against the original intent. But to outright ban prone because you don't want to clarify what prone is, that's lazy; or intentional because the rule maker wants to prevent a good prone shooter from winning. I highly doubt the traditional prone position, as shot in 3-position competition, was every considered not part of the spirit of the original ruleset.
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"Your second point I 'll leave to him to expound more on the history of"
Thanks Dave.
About Scott's second point referring to my opinion equipment should not be allowed that abominates hunting equipment, I was not referring to attached bipods. But for an excellent example of the kind of abomination of which I speak, I'll use an example yet to be addressed; that I expect will have to be eventually.
Instead of an attached bipod, in its (physical location) place let's mount a GYROSCOPIC QUIVER-CONTROL STABILIZER!
Oh, you think I'm letting my imagination get away from me?
I don't think so. In fact, I'll go so far as predict that such a gadget will be(come) reality within a few years.
That I first wrote about such a gizmo in 1998 (in The Manic Compressive, in the chapter titled TECHNOVERDOSE) I consider either my superhuman powers of forethought, or a rare opportunity oversight on the part of competition-specific shooting gadgets manufacturers. That so, I expect them to catch up with the times sooner or later.
In this case, later (than I would have predicted in 1998).
One paragraph of aforementioned chapter speaks volumes, on multiple levels. Be aware the text in parentheses has been added (just now) for greater insight(s), but will require above-average insight to understand-
"Dude, check this out!" In his neon hypnosis Aaron (Gasman) had lingered at the rifle rack too long, allowing Ian (Cessant) an opening. "Look at my new WangoWerks Super Silhouette! Got a hell of a deal, just 1800 bucks from Rip-Em Sports mail-order. Andre' Prenuer had one in stock (at Working Man's Shooting Sports) and walked me through all the maintenance procedures. He even let me shoot it in a couple matches. I fell in love with it, but he wanted a hundred bucks more than Rip-Em. He wouldn't budge, even when I pointed out the gun was now used. Dang guy acted put out or somethin'! He ended up selling it to Smiley Gooidfellow for two hundred bucks less than Rip-Em's price. Go figure. Then he refused to help me with mine when I couldn't figure out the gyroscopic quiver-control. Guess he thinks because he sponsors the matches should all just throw money at him, without even shoppin' around. Dude! A hundred bucks is a hundred bucks!
Thanks Dave.
About Scott's second point referring to my opinion equipment should not be allowed that abominates hunting equipment, I was not referring to attached bipods. But for an excellent example of the kind of abomination of which I speak, I'll use an example yet to be addressed; that I expect will have to be eventually.
Instead of an attached bipod, in its (physical location) place let's mount a GYROSCOPIC QUIVER-CONTROL STABILIZER!
Oh, you think I'm letting my imagination get away from me?
I don't think so. In fact, I'll go so far as predict that such a gadget will be(come) reality within a few years.That I first wrote about such a gizmo in 1998 (in The Manic Compressive, in the chapter titled TECHNOVERDOSE) I consider either my superhuman powers of forethought, or a rare opportunity oversight on the part of competition-specific shooting gadgets manufacturers. That so, I expect them to catch up with the times sooner or later.
In this case, later (than I would have predicted in 1998).
One paragraph of aforementioned chapter speaks volumes, on multiple levels. Be aware the text in parentheses has been added (just now) for greater insight(s), but will require above-average insight to understand-
"Dude, check this out!" In his neon hypnosis Aaron (Gasman) had lingered at the rifle rack too long, allowing Ian (Cessant) an opening. "Look at my new WangoWerks Super Silhouette! Got a hell of a deal, just 1800 bucks from Rip-Em Sports mail-order. Andre' Prenuer had one in stock (at Working Man's Shooting Sports) and walked me through all the maintenance procedures. He even let me shoot it in a couple matches. I fell in love with it, but he wanted a hundred bucks more than Rip-Em. He wouldn't budge, even when I pointed out the gun was now used. Dang guy acted put out or somethin'! He ended up selling it to Smiley Gooidfellow for two hundred bucks less than Rip-Em's price. Go figure. Then he refused to help me with mine when I couldn't figure out the gyroscopic quiver-control. Guess he thinks because he sponsors the matches should all just throw money at him, without even shoppin' around. Dude! A hundred bucks is a hundred bucks!
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Starting in WFTF will be a humbling experience for you unless you have experience target shooting without supports in some other shooting discipline. There is a reason most people start in the Hunter class...it is less challenging.
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Up until that point we were talking about prone. Prone was never outlawed, but attached bipods were. So "it" was most assumed to be what? "it" was interpreted by me to be referring to an attached bipod."Your second point I 'll leave to him to expound more on the history of"
Thanks Dave.
About Scott's second point referring to my opinion equipment should not be allowed that abominates hunting equipment, I was not referring to attached bipods. But for an excellent example of the kind of abomination of which I speak, I'll use an example yet to be addressed; that I expect will have to be eventually.
Instead of an attached bipod, in its (physical location) place let's mount a GYROSCOPIC QUIVER-CONTROL STABILIZER!
Oh, you think I'm letting my imagination get away from me?
...
"...I don't think it's a good idea to allow something that renders everyone not able to use (or afford) it uncompetitive.
Especially when/if it violates the sprit of the game (think such competition-specific equipment as has no practical use outside..."
Maybe a misunderstanding on my part. Or misdirection on your part
As far as the GYROSCOPIC QUIVER-CONTROL STABILIZER:
From 2014:
Artificial Airgun stabilization unit - Airguns & Guns Forum
Artificial Airgun stabilization unit, Air guns, Airgun Forum
www.gatewaytoairguns.org
I have seen rifle mounted gyros on occasion at the CASA FT matches. That is Hector Alfaro in the first picture. He is good shot and has cleaned the course before. He does not really need the gyro in order to shoot well, he just likes gadgets.
A gyro is legal in FT as far as I know, though not common. It does not touch the ground.
Did you think that an attached bipod "abominates hunting equipment"? Or "abominates" FT?
I'll bet there are many more that think that ANY support that touches the ground is an abomination to FT in general, and that would include shooting sticks as well as attached bipods.
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My question is, if some shooters feel an attached or even unattached bipod makes shooting too easy, how do these same shooters think stiff shooting jackets, girdles, and big hamsters don’t? Seems like a double standard to me…
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Seems like simply different classes to me. Do not know why harder or easier even makes a difference.
Tim
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I don't know the history of field target in the US. I have read that Hunter class was made for the intention to get new shooters into the sport. That being said it does make sense since your shooting off something if you choose to and also it's easier shooting off sticks and the use of a lesser magnification scope which perhaps more entry shooters would have.
So was open class made as a step toward WFTF since you use some of the same equipment as WFTF ? To me it seems that way. It's definitely not as hard as WFTF using a 20ftlb rifle and using a harness. But it definately is a step toward shooting WFTF.
I really don't understand how people can't separate the equipment uses in each category. It's like there jealous of what another category can or can not use. It's really pretty simple. If you don't like the category your shooting just shoot another one.
If you feel that you can not get up and down from a sitting position then just be happy you can still shoot Hunter. Age eventually will catch up with all of us unfortunately, just be happy there's already a category you can shoot in that makes it physically capable for you to compete.
So was open class made as a step toward WFTF since you use some of the same equipment as WFTF ? To me it seems that way. It's definitely not as hard as WFTF using a 20ftlb rifle and using a harness. But it definately is a step toward shooting WFTF.
I really don't understand how people can't separate the equipment uses in each category. It's like there jealous of what another category can or can not use. It's really pretty simple. If you don't like the category your shooting just shoot another one.
If you feel that you can not get up and down from a sitting position then just be happy you can still shoot Hunter. Age eventually will catch up with all of us unfortunately, just be happy there's already a category you can shoot in that makes it physically capable for you to compete.
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Kind of the other way around in NA. Open has been a thing for many years. WFTF shooting is relatively new and has been populated with folks who do not want to use some of the equipment and also those who wish to compete on the world stage with the common set of rules worldwide put out by the WFTF.
Tim
Tim
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Yes Scott, it's a misunderstanding on your part. I repeat again- "About Scott's second point referring to my opinion equipment should not be allowed that abominates hunting equipment, I was not referring to attached bipods." Perhaps I should have omitted the word 'attached'.
As far as FT rules (Centercut), they are in a constant state of evolution. Sometimes that is construed as devolution, depending on the perspective of the observer. Regardless, the evolution has produced some mutations that can seem to defy logic and reason without history-lesson explanations of how they came to be. Some mutations can sometimes be construed as abominations, again depending on the perspectives of the observer.
Hunter Class originated as an entry-level to field target, and/or for shooters that prefer practical hunting equipment. It has now evolved or devolved into also the class for shooters unable or unwilling to shoot from a bum-bag; hence the association with "old guys'.
Open Class is the most equipment-liberal in FT. In fact, if I recall correctly, the name Unlimited was batted around but rejected because Open is not entirely unlimited. Now some are lobbying for a more truly unlimited class, other than a 20 foot pound power limit (to save the targets from damage).
WFTF came last.
Wait... let me rephrase that!
WFTF came most recently; to accommodate American shooters wishing to shoot FT as it is done at World Championships and most places abroad.
As far as FT rules (Centercut), they are in a constant state of evolution. Sometimes that is construed as devolution, depending on the perspective of the observer. Regardless, the evolution has produced some mutations that can seem to defy logic and reason without history-lesson explanations of how they came to be. Some mutations can sometimes be construed as abominations, again depending on the perspectives of the observer.
Hunter Class originated as an entry-level to field target, and/or for shooters that prefer practical hunting equipment. It has now evolved or devolved into also the class for shooters unable or unwilling to shoot from a bum-bag; hence the association with "old guys'.
Open Class is the most equipment-liberal in FT. In fact, if I recall correctly, the name Unlimited was batted around but rejected because Open is not entirely unlimited. Now some are lobbying for a more truly unlimited class, other than a 20 foot pound power limit (to save the targets from damage).
WFTF came last.
Wait... let me rephrase that!WFTF came most recently; to accommodate American shooters wishing to shoot FT as it is done at World Championships and most places abroad.
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Open Division already accomodated WFTF shooters, so a WFTF Division in AAFTA likely came about for some other reason.
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maybe WFTF is just a recognition of the division since it was already accommodated within open ?
IE : "We are WFTF , not Open "
IE : "We are WFTF , not Open "
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I've been curious about FT since trying to find air gun ranges in the PNW area and seeing the Airgun Oregon web site. Wandering into this thread was like reading about someone that took too much acid and merged Twister with the Hokey Pokey. I read the AAFTA rule pdf which was somewhat helpful cuz it's not discussing the history of logistical changes, just the current facts, ma'am. I think for now I'll spend time at the local range with 10m match since it's simpler, just point and shoot. Though, the idea of wandering around the woods shooting targets down does sound appealing and of course, takes this to the next level beyond shooting paper and cans in the backyard. I've been thinking a trip down to Ashland for some training might help with wrapping my head around the nuances of FT.
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Field Target is also about movement from target to target lanes , constantly range finding (kind of like shooting sitting squirrels hahaha ) . YES go to a FT event . (I did and just stood around and watched ) A few guys asked if i wanted to use one of their back up guns and shoot knowing i had never done FT before . BE careful the hook is deep and sharp , your hooked with out even trying .
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