One potential downside are the current records on the AAFTA books.... Do those just go away? Or stay stagnant? Combined into one mass?
Wayne
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The history of FT rules?
- Thread starter SqrlHntr
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Wayne
They could still be records? Just records of how it was done at the time. One way to think about it is that those records would never be broken, assuming we stuck with a one-class system. So, rather than take away from whoever holds them, they'd be sort of memorialized, never to be broken.
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"What are the potential downsides of a one-class field target system that I'm not seeing?"
Though I'm not a betting man, I would bet good money there are more FT shooters opposed to that idea than would support it. That being the case or not, FT would lose a lot of shooters if that impossibility ever did come to pass.
Though I'm not a betting man, I would bet good money there are more FT shooters opposed to that idea than would support it. That being the case or not, FT would lose a lot of shooters if that impossibility ever did come to pass.
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A “run whacha brung” class, where anything goes… With the understanding that they would be scored as the “chaos class” and only shooting the course for fun, not for awards or official placings.
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Why do you think FT would lose a lot of shooters if we were all in the same class, but got to shoot from the position we prefer, using the equipment we want to use? Is the perpetual debate about which class is hardest or where points are most earned part of the allure for a lot of ft shooters?
(not antagonizing, simply curious)
Really, what are the downsides?
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I see a lot of complications going back to one or two classes. Regardless how you look at it since the Hunter class took off in 2006 the national numbers have never been higher. I do like the idea of all having the ability to use the same equipment that is used in all classes now but I do agree also with Mr. Robinson's summary. In 2006 we had 105 shooters in CT at the Nationals. (About 20 to 25 were in the new Hunter Class) That was called a record year. I'm thinking that record may of been broken in the Crosman GP years or maybe even PYA GP's but I'm not certain of that. My long term memory is a lot better than my short term nowadays.
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Ask and you shall receive. Cannot thank y’all enough for the insights and history, explains alot and removes some frustrations and confusions. Knowing how and why the rules evolved is important. As im gaining more MD experience, this info helps with both knowledge and understanding of the rulesets. I sometimes forget that FT is still a new sport comparatively, and thus still evolving with growing pains and challenges unique to airguns, locales and its people. People make FT what it is, and the passion we all share for it shows in the debates, discussions and of course, Airngasman’s channeling of Hemingway. Again, thanks for the responses and insights, y’all have prob forgotten more than I’ll ever learn.
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Cole, I’m also of the belief that one class would likely hurt the numbers. Instead of 3 1st place positions ….there would only be 1.
I used to race RC cars, and there was always a stock and modified class. One of the tracks decided they were going to only run one combined class and give out cash awards for a series of races, and it cut the attendance pretty severely. They scrapped that idea rather quickly and all the guys that left came back. Keep in mind that the only change from stock to modified was a different motor and everyone already had a bunch of both. The problem was that there was only 3 podium places where there used to be 6.
Mike
I used to race RC cars, and there was always a stock and modified class. One of the tracks decided they were going to only run one combined class and give out cash awards for a series of races, and it cut the attendance pretty severely. They scrapped that idea rather quickly and all the guys that left came back. Keep in mind that the only change from stock to modified was a different motor and everyone already had a bunch of both. The problem was that there was only 3 podium places where there used to be 6.
Mike
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I tend to be blunt so...
To clarify, people would rather win in a class of 2 or 3 or 4 competitors? Or rather, they'd prefer to only have to beat a couple people to be able to say they won instead of needing to beat everybody else shooting that course that day to be able to say they won?
Or are we saying FT shooters like their participation awards?
Or are we saying that ft shooters like to claim they shoot in the hardest class but are also scared to compete against the other classes?
Or are we saying we like to be aware and sometimes even recognize high match score, but we want the other shooters to be restricted by the rules-enforced handicaps in their classes so that we have a better chance of being high match score ourselves?
I'm still looking for the downsides but maybe I think vastly different than the majority.
To clarify, people would rather win in a class of 2 or 3 or 4 competitors? Or rather, they'd prefer to only have to beat a couple people to be able to say they won instead of needing to beat everybody else shooting that course that day to be able to say they won?
Or are we saying FT shooters like their participation awards?
Or are we saying that ft shooters like to claim they shoot in the hardest class but are also scared to compete against the other classes?
Or are we saying we like to be aware and sometimes even recognize high match score, but we want the other shooters to be restricted by the rules-enforced handicaps in their classes so that we have a better chance of being high match score ourselves?
I'm still looking for the downsides but maybe I think vastly different than the majority.
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Why 2 classes ? why not one class 12FPE . or what ever FPE you decided on ? OR if it is about trophy's why not a 5 or 6 place winners .
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Making a single class of only 12fpe that allows any shooting aid would decimate attendance.
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Cole…probably every one of your scenarios applies to someone. People all participate in things for different reasons.
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I
2 Classes because shooting a Piston airgun is so much different than shooting a Precharged airgun. More so than any differences in shooting aids.
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Speaking of overall GP winners, I’m guilty of that, but I’ve also chosen the biggest classes at times when I thought I had a chance of winning.
Because the Divisions (especially pistol) are so similar, cherry picking is easy for some. With one Division, there is no opportunity to do so.
If cherry picking opportunities entice more people to shoot, maybe multiple Divisions/Classes is a good thing?
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"Why do you think FT would lose a lot of shooters if we were all in the same class"
Cole, the short answer is I'm an MD of such vast experience that I've seen it repeatedly. But to expound...
When you have FT shooters SO HEAVILY INVESTED in gaining every possible advantage at ALL COSTS, some actually so much so that they cross the line to cheat, and we do have both kinds of such shooters, when some lose the advantage(s) he spent so much to gain, HE QUITS! Yes, they do.
I've seen it when the Hunter Class scope magnification rule changed to dictate any scope lacking the correct Hunter Class maximum magnification factory marking must be set to the next lower factory marking. In that instance a man and his wife invested in twin Steyrs equipped with 10-60X scopes IMMEDIATELY QUIT FT ALTOGETHER!
Saw it again when a (best-buddy) Hunter shooter using a bipod to dominate could no longer do so when the rule changed to disallow attached bipods. He also dropped out of field target immediately. It's the, "If I can't have my way I'LL TAKE MY BALL AND GO HOME!" mentality, and it's less uncommon than you realize.
So with those examples cited just in Hunter Class, and just in my little world, do the math of the majority of FT shooters losing their advantages OVERNIGHT! On second thought, don't bother; I'll do it for you.
Hundreds of FT shooters heavily invested in each one's advantages + each of them losing those EXPENSIVE ADVANTAGES = MASSIVE LOSS OF FT SHOOTERS.
No conjecture required; just experience.
Cole, the short answer is I'm an MD of such vast experience that I've seen it repeatedly. But to expound...
When you have FT shooters SO HEAVILY INVESTED in gaining every possible advantage at ALL COSTS, some actually so much so that they cross the line to cheat, and we do have both kinds of such shooters, when some lose the advantage(s) he spent so much to gain, HE QUITS! Yes, they do.
I've seen it when the Hunter Class scope magnification rule changed to dictate any scope lacking the correct Hunter Class maximum magnification factory marking must be set to the next lower factory marking. In that instance a man and his wife invested in twin Steyrs equipped with 10-60X scopes IMMEDIATELY QUIT FT ALTOGETHER!
Saw it again when a (best-buddy) Hunter shooter using a bipod to dominate could no longer do so when the rule changed to disallow attached bipods. He also dropped out of field target immediately. It's the, "If I can't have my way I'LL TAKE MY BALL AND GO HOME!" mentality, and it's less uncommon than you realize.
So with those examples cited just in Hunter Class, and just in my little world, do the math of the majority of FT shooters losing their advantages OVERNIGHT! On second thought, don't bother; I'll do it for you.
Hundreds of FT shooters heavily invested in each one's advantages + each of them losing those EXPENSIVE ADVANTAGES = MASSIVE LOSS OF FT SHOOTERS.
No conjecture required; just experience.
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Why do folks that have never played the game as it is played want to change the rules? You can range find with your scope, more accurate than your range finder anyway, and try a UN attached biped. You'll have a blast, if you just give FT a chance. Offered respectfully
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Thanks Ron, What you're saying makes sense.
(Experience is good, but a skosh of humility goes a long way........Thanks for lowering yourself to my level by responding).
(Experience is good, but a skosh of humility goes a long way........Thanks for lowering yourself to my level by responding).
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Ron,
In both of your examples, losing the FT shooter was because of new restrictions added to the rules. Some of these proposals are for just the opposite - i.e. , fewer restrictions.
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