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The future of pellets - some questions

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Pellets going away. That’s hilarious. I’ve lost count of the number of threads posted on this site for the last 6 months from many airgunners wanting to know where they can buy pellets since everyone’s back ordered. Supply and demand. If I was smarter and not so busy with my own company I’d reach out to JSB and discuss a partnership with building a manufacturing facility in the USA. Distribution chain is already in place. Yes, covid created a lag in the supply chain that will unclog soon but Covid along with firearm ammo shortage IMHO has created another tier of demand that could justify a USA JSB manufacturing facility. 
 
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IDK. Not addressing the question you asked,but still germane to the discussion.. Probably only a matter of time before lead is banned. All it will take is one CA condor dying with a lead AG pellet or slug in its gut..not shot..but ingested. It will be blown out of proportion, but environmental wackos will make it stick. Califonication for one and all. Let’s hope not.
 
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Why doesn't Crosman just have new dies made? 
Their 19 grain domed pellets are top notch but they could theoretically sell them for less than JSB, as they don't have to be imported.

The lead, has to be imported though, as the last US foundry, Doe Run, closed down long ago.

Barrels that would adhere to SAAMI specs might be less finicky & allow harder H&N type recycled lead shoot better.

JSB 18.13 is great. But I've seen CPHP 13.43 do excellent from AZ Rapids. I'm thinking it's the cheap barrels, and decline in CPHP quality. 
 
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YUH MEAN BULLETS, HOLLOW SPIRE POINT BULLETS. MEANT FOR LONG DISTANCE SHOOTING AND HUNTING. I HAVE LESS THAN 300 (.22 & .25) SOLELY FOR USE ON COYOTES AND RACCOONS. I GENERALLY USE MY AIRGUNS FOR PESTING SQUIRRELS, RABBITS, DOVES, CROWS, FERAL CATS, RACCOONS AND COYOTES. MAJORITY OF TIME I USE AND I PREFER PELLETS. THE COST IS ABOUT 1/5 OF BULLETS . IN PARTICULAR THE HADES, DON'T RECALL ANY PASS THROUGHS SINCE I BEGAN USING THEM AND THEY ARE VERY EFFECTIVE AND RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE. I'VE TUNED MY SMALL PEST GUN TO 20 FT/LBS AND THE LARGE PEST GUN TO 50+ FT/LBS.
 
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Slugs certainly are all the "rage" right now in terms of topics of discussion largely because they are new and it gives many in the hobby something new to talk about, test and play with and thing that's fine. Slugs however address a small niche of the airgun world to shot larger game (by air gun standards) at 100+ yds in the those relatively few guns that will shoot them well. 

I think they may also appeal to those people crossing over from the firearm world to make airguns seem like a more "serious" rifle but I do agree it's only a matter a time before some incident happens with an air rifle shooting slugs what will get tighter regulations on them most likely.

Personally as an avid airgun hunter I have no real "need" to shoot slugs other than my curiosity to see how they do but pellets do so well and less cost that my motivation and I imagine many others will be pretty low to use them over pellets on a regular basis. Virtually all air rifles sold at the retail level are springers (or gas rams) and almost none of them shoot slugs well at all and I don't think slugs will ever be sold at retail so I don't see them really ever getting out of their niche ammo status.

I'm glad slugs are an option for those that want to use them and have the right equipment but I am not concerned about them displacing the popularity or usefulness of pellets. 
 
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Slugs are a hot topic not due to the popularity, it’s due to the difficulty and frustration. How many guys ever actually needed help to get a JSB 18.1 to shoot out of their gun? Set your gun to 880fps, the end. I’ve also said before that we need to pray that slug guns, or little lead bullet guns if you will, become mainstream, it’s not going to be good. If there is ever a magic formula discovered that makes slug shooting as easy as pellets, that will open the door for the box store bombers to start producing them. We never want little Ricky and the gang shooting birds off wires in neighborhoods with slugs. At that point we will be circling the drain.
 
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Have no interest in slugs do to the fact it’s more expensive to shoot slugs well in pcp. When I want to reach out and touch someone I use my power burners much cheaper in the long haul imo. As to why no manufacturers in the US it’s basically one word LEAD. Last time I researched it while reloading the US is down to ONE company that supplies bulk lead. This might have changed but I doubt it, with all the negative press on guns here it’s just not cost effective to start with pellets from the get go. Now if you could convince a Hornady to start making slugs for PCP maybe they would dip their toe into pellets. We can only hope but I do enjoy reading about the slug shooters very interesting stuff.
 
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I’m of the belief that pellets will lose traction in the upcoming years for precision airgun shooting. Although it’s common to hear that slugs don’t perform as well as pellets in the short range….that is not universally true. Other than being safer to shoot in a confined area….pellets have no advantage in any other category. The short range accuracy will eventually trickle down to the mainstream.

The fact that an individual can purchase the means to make their own slugs for a very reasonable cost and maintain tight control over the product is a huge factor for competitive shooters. I much prefer swaging my own perfect slugs over searching for good pellets. It costs me 3c each to swage a 40gr slug that is dimensionally correct and perfectly round every time….using lead wire. Now that I have put hundreds of pounds of these down range and collected the lead…I simply melt it down and cast cores for new slugs. It’s unlikely that I will need to purchase any more lead wire for the foreseeable future meaning my material cost went from 3c each to 0.

I’m currently shooting BR scores at 50y using slugs that were difficult to shoot with pellets at 25 on the same target. Extending the distance and maintaining the former precision is exciting to me….and a lot of other guys that like precision shooting.


Mike
 
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Thanks for all the inputs. So what I gather from the replies and ideas (taking out the emotions):



-Pellets are here to stay: costs reasons; meets hunting/pesting purpose; up to 100 yards target shooting, most traditional airguns are still designed for pellets only

- Quality pellet-supply seems to be dependent on a single-point of failure (what if JSB closes?

- There is demand for a JSB-quality pellet-maker in the USA. Actually, I am surprised that manufacturers are neglecting this aspect of the hobby and "depend" on one single manufacturer . It's like putting 2-cycle leaded gasoline/benzene into $3000 airgun-Ferraris....

- The writing is on the wall about lead being banned eventually in Western-Europe and some parts of the US. This will affect both pellets and slugs. Need to start thinking about an economical material to replace it. Or build out capacity in countries that are not yet down that path of banning seemingly everything (like CA does)

- Slugs will expand into the hobby more. Some are not interested and consider it a "niche" since pellets already fulfill their needs for pesting/hunting/up to 100 yards shooting. Also, may require additional investment in equipment (slug barrels/liners/make your own slugs)

- Slugs can become economical and can compete with the cost of pellets (DIY, recycle, "economies of scale", more efficient manufacturing processes - NSA example) 

- Slugs are expanding shooting distances into firearm-territory with longer distances and higher retained energy than pellets and superior BC and fight-stability vs pellets at longer distances. This is where some airgunners are pushing the distance/accuracy limits past the 100 yards which have not moved much since the 80's until about 5 years ago when 100 yards arguably became the standard for pellet/rifle evaluation






 
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I’m of the belief that pellets will lose traction in the upcoming years for precision airgun shooting. Although it’s common to hear that slugs don’t perform as well as pellets in the short range….that is not universally true. Other than being safer to shoot in a confined area….pellets have no advantage in any other category. The short range accuracy will eventually trickle down to the mainstream.

The fact that an individual can purchase the means to make their own slugs for a very reasonable cost and maintain tight control over the product is a huge factor for competitive shooters. I much prefer swaging my own perfect slugs over searching for good pellets. It costs me 3c each to swage a 40gr slug that is dimensionally correct and perfectly round every time….using lead wire. Now that I have put hundreds of pounds of these down range and collected the lead…I simply melt it down and cast cores for new slugs. It’s unlikely that I will need to purchase any more lead wire for the foreseeable future meaning my material cost went from 3c each to 0.

I’m currently shooting BR scores at 50y using slugs that were difficult to shoot with pellets at 25 on the same target. Extending the distance and maintaining the former precision is exciting to me….and a lot of other guys that like precision shooting.


Mike
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Your practice of recycling lead pellets'/slugs (albeit not for everybody) should be mentioned at more venues and forums. If not for the environment (the pet-peeve of many), but for economical reasons. I think many of us (me included) are not aware of the actual techniques and options to make our own pellets/slugs. Would be great to publicize some general information on this so people may decide to follow suit/experiment. A platform like AGN, maybe in Hard Air Magazine, or AEAC may help bring focus?
 
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I was told choked barrels, which are a lot of Airgun barrels, should not shoot slugs when I ordered my LW barrel for my Mrod. I’ve tried H&N slugs with the stock barrel and didn’t notice any damage to anything but idk for sure.
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I am not an expert on pellets and barrels, but I would think that a choked barrel designed for pellet heads/skirts to be squeezed uniformly may not be able to properly "size" a slug because of its larger mass and shape. Some smaller diameter slugs may work, but then you may run into an issue with proper sealing and wasting air. Welcoming anyone to chime in on this....
 
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LW barrels also come lightly choked, heavily choked, and everything in between….although you cannot specify which one you would like when ordering.

Ive had choked barrels that shot slugs every bit as well as any other unchoked barrel…but a choke isn’t a choke. Meaning …you cannot lump all choked barrels into a single category and make a blanket statement about them.

Mike 


 
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LW barrels also come lightly choked, heavily choked, and everything in between….although you cannot specify which one you would like when ordering.

Ive had choked barrels that shot slugs every bit as well as any other unchoked barrel…but a choke isn’t a choke. Meaning …you cannot lump all choked barrels into a single category and make a blanket statement about them.

Mike 

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I had my LW machined to be an exact copy of the stock gen 2 .22 Mrod barrel by Roy at mountain air customs just with LW quality/accuracy. He tells me specifically not to run slugs in that barrel or any choked barrel. I’m gonna listen to him but was curious why. 


The LW barrel was slated to arrive today but it’s running late. I’m not going crazy waiting for it though, as my Mrod just sprung a leak 2 days ago out the end of the barrel. Folks tell me it’s most likely the poppet which should be here tomorrow...
 
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