Terminal Ballistics: .30cal or .22cal for Feral Pigeons?

[JungleShooter]

Terminal Ballistics:
.30cal or .22cal for Feral Pigeons?​

I THINK, I KNOW what's the better caliber for feral pigeons — but then, my wife tells me that I'm not always right when I THINK I'm right.
So, please, correct me or enlighten me at least.


I am aware —
and blatantly disregard —
the disadvantages of the .30cal over .22cal. Here in no particular order:
▪ more danger of damage apart from damaged pigeons
▪ less shots per charge
▪ louder
▪ more expensive per shot



Now, I am looking at shooting the .30cal with an MV of 540fps — for a ME of 32FPE — so, very low velocity, very low power for a .30cal.
That should eliminate the disadvantages of noise and low shot count.
▪ What about the danger to stuff other than pigeons?
▪ The trajectory is rather loopy, so my PBR is only 36y (33m) short. My largest distances are 60y, typical is 25-45y.


Do you have anything to add here?
Please, do so.





The advantage of the .30cal — using the JSB 50.15gr dome at 540fps MV — hitting pigeons at 50y with 25FPE (473fps):
▪ a bigger hole in the pigeon = equates to quicker kill and on marginal shots, a kill at all.

Is this correct thinking?
What comments do you have?



This is not academic, I have a .30cal rig with these specs.
Thanks!

Matthias

 

[JimD]

I have only shot doves, which are smaller. I have been surprised at the injury they can have and still not lay down and die immediately. I shot the entire top of the skull off, for instance and the dove stayed vertical for long enough to get another in the chest. I have only used 25 and 22s, maybe my 177. But I've seen no caliber difference. I think they weigh less than a squirrel. My conclusion is that sometimes they are too stupid to know they are dead. I think a 22 will work fine and a 30 not much better but I could be wrong.

 

[beerthief]

why waste the .30 ? unless you buy a large enough quantity (5 gallon bucket full ? )to get the projectile cost per shot down to the cost of a .22 pellet .

 

[JimD]

A more helpful comment may be to hit them in the upper body. It's easy to hit them in the lower body and the head is a small target. I don't remember one failing to drop to an upper body hit. There is a you tube channel called "off my rocker" where he often shoots pigeons.

 

[L.Leon]

The terminal ballistics are irrefutable, the economics of such an endeavor?

 

[Gerry52]

You might have a difficult time pushing 50gr at lower power Matthias. The 44.75 would be a wiser choice imho IF you're going to use a .30.

 

[JungleShooter]

I have only shot doves, which are smaller. I have been surprised at the injury they can have and still not lay down and die immediately. I shot the entire top of the skull off, for instance and the dove stayed vertical for long enough to get another in the chest. My conclusion is that sometimes they are too stupid to know they are dead.

Yes, Jim, my observation is similar: Those birds are tough as nails!
(That's one reason they thrive in our urban jungles.... ‍♂)

Too stupid to know they're dead? Probably.
But smart to recognize danger from afar — they recognize a hunter from a field worker....

Matthias

 

[JungleShooter]

Why waste the .30? Unless you buy a large enough quantity (5 gallon bucket full?) to get the projectile cost per shot down to the cost of a .22 pellet .

Well, I already have the caliber barrel, and the caliber projectiles, slugs and pellets.
So, the damage is done!!
Now, it's just to decide what to use it on....

Matthias.

 

[JungleShooter]

You might have a difficult time pushing 50.15gr at lower power Matthias. The 44.75 would be a wiser choice imho IF you're going to use a .30.

Gerry,
would you explain?
What would be the difficult part....?

Thanks,
Matthias

 

[Cantona256]

Im using a .25 30gr going 960 out of my Barra 250z… it the only gun I own and I use it from squirrels all the to coyotes. I also shoot a lot of Eurasian Collared Doves. I like the 30gr slug because it’s very accurate, shoots flat and more importantly at 960 the expansion is unreal. Every time I shoot something it sounds like a little firecracker goes off when it hits. Doves are freaking Dove little birds but this slug drops them super quick cuz I’m surrounded by juniper trees a sage, if the critter moves too much I’ll lose it….

My point to all of this is I think you should be focused more on effective energy transfer rather than caliber. 30fpe is the same for all rounds regardless of size, the difference is what ammo is gonna dump its energy into your intended target most effectively?

 

[6gun]

Ive shot many thousands of pigeons over my life. Most with a 12 guage but the rest were with 22 air rifle at 12 fpe. Until recently. 25 caliber (let's just call that your 30) just wallops the little turds. The only concern I have is the trajectory at your velocity.... But if you know it and it hits, IT HITS.

IF you don't often miss, 22 has very little advantage. 25 grain monster hades allow me to shoot them from the wing side and get thru all the feathers, but they're they same weight as my 25 cal, so let's use that frontal area to our advantage.

I'm urban hunting pigeons for the most part and cannot afford to miss, which flavors my opinion.

Ammo cost? Not a concern since it's these flying guano factories.

Happy hunting!

 

[6gun]

Im using a .25 30gr going 960 out of my Barra 250z… it the only gun I own and I use it from squirrels all the to coyotes. I also shoot a lot of Eurasian Collared Doves. I like the 30gr slug because it’s very accurate, shoots flat and more importantly at 960 the expansion is unreal. Every time I shoot something it sounds like a little firecracker goes off when it hits. Doves are freaking Dove little birds but this slug drops them super quick cuz I’m surrounded by juniper trees a sage, if the critter moves too much I’ll lose it….

My point to all of this is I think you should be focused more on effective energy transfer rather than caliber. 30fpe is the same for all rounds regardless of size, the difference is what ammo is gonna dump its energy into your intended target most effectively?

View attachment 561955

View attachment 561956

Those eurasians are pushing out the native mourning dove here. So i shoot the crap out of them and eat them, but leave the natives. Fpe point I agree with but also frontal area of projectile.

Nice work!

 

[Gerry52]

Gerry,
would you explain?
What would be the difficult part....?

Thanks,
Matthias

At lower power the 50gr might not A) stabilize too well & B) have a loopy trajectory compared to the lighter 44.75 grain. But, what do I know?

 

[lbc_PSI]

If your gun will shoot them..

Predator Polymag | .30 Cal | 44.75 Grains | 100 Ct – TPS

The patented Predator Polymag is a premium quality hunting pellet which combines a hollow head with a sharp polymer tip for unsurpassed performance on small game. Whether ridding your garden of unwanted pests or stalking your favorite hardwoods in search of squirrel, experience excellent...

www.thepelletshop.com

..maximum POP.


Or a little lighter .30..

Lead Free .30 Pellets – Zan Projectiles

zanprojectiles.com

..pricey but maybe more velocity and flatter trajectory.

 

[Cantona256]

Ive shot many thousands of pigeons over my life. Most with a 12 guage but the rest were with 22 air rifle at 12 fpe. Until recently. 25 caliber (let's just call that your 30) just wallops the little turds. The only concern I have is the trajectory at your velocity.... But if you know it and it hits, IT HITS.

IF you don't often miss, 22 has very little advantage. 25 grain monster hades allow me to shoot them from the wing side and get thru all the feathers, but they're they same weight as my 25 cal, so let's use that frontal area to our advantage.

I'm urban hunting pigeons for the most part and cannot afford to miss, which flavors my opinion.

Ammo cost? Not a concern since it's these flying guano factories.

Happy hunting!

You make really excellent points. Most people don’t ask 1 gun to as many things as I do which is why I run it the way I do. The gun will shoot 35 and 36gr slugs beautifully in the 880’s but I find that they pass through on the smaller game. I probably need them to go faster but the BC makes them carry waaaay farther than I need/want. The 30’s will too but it’s always windy in SW Utah and the pellets just move a bit too much for me.

I have a couple spots where I definitely have to be very careful. I don’t shoot about 10 times more Doves(I don’t shoot native doves at all. Too many invasives around haha) than I actually do shoot. The nice thing about these soft 30gr is that I can hear when they hit which is nice. I’m not a marksman by any means so I try focus on shot selection and putting myself in a position so that if I miss it’s in a safer direction.
Mostly I was just saying that for birds I go for ammo that dumps its energy the fastest because it seems to drop them faster and I don’t worry about passing through. OP mentioned using the .30 but going real slow. My concern with that is as he mentioned the trajectory might be wonky. So maybe harder to aim? Also even going slow a pellet with 32 fpe can still pass through the bird depending on its shape. My focus would be less on the caliber of the gun used but on being super accurate with ammo that won’t pass through the target.
But besides my girl’s backyard I mostly shoot in the Utah desert so my requirements are different.

All that being said I am really interested in this because I’d love to figure out a safe way to smash these collared doves in town. They’re all so fat and happy chilling on powerlines in these quiet neighborhoods .

 

[Cantona256]

If your gun will shoot them..

Predator Polymag | .30 Cal | 44.75 Grains | 100 Ct – TPS

The patented Predator Polymag is a premium quality hunting pellet which combines a hollow head with a sharp polymer tip for unsurpassed performance on small game. Whether ridding your garden of unwanted pests or stalking your favorite hardwoods in search of squirrel, experience excellent...

www.thepelletshop.com

..maximum POP.


Or a little lighter .30..

Lead Free .30 Pellets – Zan Projectiles

zanprojectiles.com

..pricey but maybe more velocity and flatter trajectory.

That’s a good shout.

 

[6gun]

You make really excellent points. Most people don’t ask 1 gun to as many things as I do which is why I run it the way I do. The gun will shoot 35 and 36gr slugs beautifully in the 880’s but I find that they pass through on the smaller game. I probably need them to go faster but the BC makes them carry waaaay farther than I need/want. The 30’s will too but it’s always windy in SW Utah and the pellets just move a bit too much for me.

I have a couple spots where I definitely have to be very careful. I don’t shoot about 10 times more Doves(I don’t shoot native doves at all. Too many invasives around haha) than I actually do shoot. The nice thing about these soft 30gr is that I can hear when they hit which is nice. I’m not a marksman by any means so I try focus on shot selection and putting myself in a position so that if I miss it’s in a safer direction.
Mostly I was just saying that for birds I go for ammo that dumps its energy the fastest because it seems to drop them faster and I don’t worry about passing through. OP mentioned using the .30 but going real slow. My concern with that is as he mentioned the trajectory might be wonky. So maybe harder to aim? Also even going slow a pellet with 32 fpe can still pass through the bird depending on its shape. My focus would be less on the caliber of the gun used but on being super accurate with ammo that won’t pass through the target.
But besides my girl’s backyard I mostly shoot in the Utah desert so my requirements are different.

All that being said I am really interested in this because I’d love to figure out a safe way to smash these collared doves in town. They’re all so fat and happy chilling on powerlines in these quiet neighborhoods .

Im out in the deserts of southern California and the winds are not ideal here. I rarely if ever have a shot within 60 yards as well.

I don't know if these are offered in 30 but if energy dump is what you need the ones I've found that just dump it all are as follows

Predator polymags
Crow magnum
Hybrid slugs (to a point, they need SOME velocity or they're just a pointed slug).

The there's the pellet standby shapes for low velocity if they're available in your caliber. Wad cutters and silver bears, they are putting in work on a different principle.

I've taken more critters than I dare venture to guess with a slow benjamin 392 (22) at 30 yards plus with crow mags squeeking out maybe 7 - 7.5 fpe at my hit ranges.

Now I don't much mind about peak power if the trajectory is the same evey time. Just wipe their head off or thump them center mass if you can't have a pass thru(all of my pcp do now anyways)

The lonely table for 1 might be the trick.

Op is 30 cal and 30 to 40 fpe, it's going thru but a pellet might be the trick over a slug here for drag reasons and lighter build.

This is the science of it I enjoy.

 

[6gun]

Lemme be more useful here. 30 cal offerings I've searched and would try knowing how they work in smaller calibers.

Polymags
Hybrids
Hades
Patriot javelin slugs in the lighter range.

In 22 the patriots are soft and the hollow points are similar or the same regardless of weight so I use the lighter ones for "sketchy" work.

 

[JimD]

I agree that expansion is desirable for either a fairly high powered 22 (say above 25 fpe) or virtually any 30 caliber (although at really low velocity like the OP is tuned to it might be worth an expansion test to be sure). The body of a pigeon is just not that big so you should have plenty of penetration and the energy left in a pass through is just wasted (or worse if it hits something valuable). I test penetration in wet paper, magazines at this point. Rough simulation of muscle tissue. If a projectile won't expand in wet paper it is unlikely to expand in an animal since many animal tissues are less dense than muscles. An expanded 30 caliber would make a heck of a hole. The unexpanded 30 caliber hole seems big enough. A 22 would seem to benefit more from expansion which could make their hole through the pigeon equivalent to an unexpanded 30.

 

[6gun]

I agree that expansion is desirable for either a fairly high powered 22 (say above 25 fpe) or virtually any 30 caliber (although at really low velocity like the OP is tuned to it might be worth an expansion test to be sure). The body of a pigeon is just not that big so you should have plenty of penetration and the energy left in a pass through is just wasted (or worse if it hits something valuable). I test penetration in wet paper, magazines at this point. Rough simulation of muscle tissue. If a projectile won't expand in wet paper it is unlikely to expand in an animal since many animal tissues are less dense than muscles. An expanded 30 caliber would make a heck of a hole. The unexpanded 30 caliber hole seems big enough. A 22 would seem to benefit more from expansion which could make their hole through the pigeon equivalent to an unexpanded 30.

You give me a bit of a morbid idea, if you ever eat any of these or collect the evidence.... Clip off a wing and cover your expansion medium with it. Sometimes if the headshots isn't an option going thru the wing is all you have and they're surprisingly tough.

If I comment a bit too much here, this and rowdy crows have been 30 years of my airgunning and is sort of my lane. Cotton tails and upland game birds generally are so lightly constructed I don't really discuss the nuance of those hits (big dove/pigeons and turkey aside)