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Tuning Talondor 50 yard Squirrel Rifle

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I know I am talking to myself but ... This is a good place to keep the data ... someone else may want it some day.

I'm done with this exercise. I have built a fine little 50 yard squirrel rifle. I did not explain how I shimmed the scope in this thread because I explained it in a different thread. Today I caught an onshore breeze which was fairly consistent so I shot the test groups that I needed to do to select a pellet for the rifle. It isn't really picky.

The squares on the targets below are 0.25 mils at 40 yards (just under 1 MOA square). Each target was started on a fresh bottle. Only four five shot groups were shot on each target.

Shot with power wheel set to 7-6 (I could probably squeek out another 10 or 15% but this is good):

JSB Exact King Heavy 33.4 grain pellets at 800 fps, 47+ fpe, 20 shots/fill

IMG_20201204_160824556.1607117610.jpg


7-6-jsb-king-mk1-etd.1607132193.jpg


JSB Exact King Heavy MkII 33.4 grain pellets at 800 fps, 47+ fpe, 20 shots/fill

IMG_20201204_160810730.1607117621.jpg


7-6-jsb-king-mk2-etd.1607132208.jpg


H&N Baracuda 30.2 grain pellets at 810 fps, 44+ fpe, 25 shots/fill

IMG_20201203_173804221.1607117632.jpg


7-6-baracuda-etd.1607132223.jpg


JSB Exact 25.4 grain pellets at 850 fps, 40+ fpe, 30 shots/fill

IMG_20201204_160838738.1607117549.jpg


7-6-jsb-25,4-etd.1607132236.jpg



Very nice to have all four of these pellets available on the same power wheel setting with these power levels and shot counts. The Seneca's did not shoot well enough to post the groups. They were shooting at about 54 fpe.

Note: Place holder for a link to a new thread I will make this spring when I will install the 24" .22 barrel and reconfigure the rifle for ground hog hunting at ranges under 100 yards. Might even shoot slugs at those critters.

Meanwhile lets go hunting.

JSB-Exact-Drop-Table.1607133170.jpg



 
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...can I just like buy a .257 cal barrel and put it on my Escape and expect good results shooting heavy bullets...???...

...what other parts would I need to buy to make it work well...???...stuff a guy like me could install...???...



homer-simpson-looking-stupid.jpg
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Well as it turns out it isn't a 1:14 LW it is a 1:18 which is a bit slow for slugs but could work. I think it is probably the original barrel.

Yes you would have to add a heavier hammer, a high flow top hat, and possibly a heavier hammer spring to get the kind of air flow you would need to shoot .257 slugs.

The stock hammer is 40 grams (I think). You can buy hammer weights which I believe are available in different sizes. You can get after market hammers that are as heavy as 90 grams. The problem with heavy hammers is lock time is increased. You can add a heavier spring to compensate. There is no free lunch.
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...I did not miss this...thank you for posting...
 
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I'm subscribed and following. And learning from your experiences. Unfortunately hit a snag. My hi-flow bottle has a valve leak. So I have to investigate that more and find the proper fix.
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It is easy to DEGAS that cylinder and then take the valve apart. Just make sure you have it degassed. I have a fitting which was apparently the original way to fill them. It is a cap with a nipple on it that screws down over the top hat. I just drop a penny in it and screw it down till I have cracked the valve and let it bleed out. There are probably other tricks people use to degas one of the bottles. You could shoot it down but that doesn't strike me as such a good idea. Other ideas come to mind but I won't suggest them for fear they are stupid and/or dangerous.

No doubt someone with more experience will come up with something that makes perfect sense and which I have not even considered.
 
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Yeah, I had no idea that it had a leak. Will search for cures and hoping there's a quick fix. Shame really, because I got my stock from the machinist. Fitted that to an Air Venturi stock. Gave me the perfect LOP and cheek weld. Reconfigured my scope for eye relief. Pumped up the hi-flow with the compressor. 



And heard the leak.......crap. Took some shots with it while it had air. I was impressed. Then changed everything back to the talon bottle. I'll be spending the spare time I have this weekend looking for fixes or someone to do it.
 
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...and therein lies the core issue...

...all these cool mods...but my Airforce rifle works pretty much perfectly now...

...I would not really consider it a "50 yard squirrel rifle" per se although I am sure it could kill one at such a range if presented the right opportunity...
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I am assuming you are not talking specifically about my rifle and more about AF rifles in general or maybe one you have?


I think any of them can be made to shoot well enough to be a fifty yard squirrel rifle with nothing more than the right pellet, a good match of power wheel setting to pellet and an optic. This is by far the easiest air rifle I've ever worked on. You don't have to have all the crap that mine has in it and on it.

This rifle is for sure a 50 yard squirrel rifle as it sits, no problem at all. Look a the ballistics and the groups. Ninteen out of 20 shots touching a dime at 40 yards and a half inch of drop after that delivering 29 fpe at 50 yards? Of course it is a fifty yard squirrel rifle all you have to do is your part. I wouldn't call it a squirrel rifle if I didn't think it would do head shots at that distance.
 
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Mine shoots pretty good with the little bit I did to it over the years. I'm just switching over to heavier pellets for a little more thwack. I actually had the hi-flow bottle for years. Only ever used it a few times. Since I only had a hand pump then I stopped using it because the air went fast. The only reason I started to reconsider it is because I bought the Benjamin Traveler. Otherwise my Talon SS works pretty good. Been throwing 18 gainers for years around 750 fps. I could get around 50 to 60 shots working itself down to 700. Cleanly took out critters from chipmunks up to feral cats for years. All I did to it was a heavy hammer and a baffle system. My baffle system consists of conduit bushings and fender washers. Six or seven chambers. Cheap and very quiet.
 
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...and therein lies the core issue...

...all these cool mods...but my Airforce rifle works pretty much perfectly now...

...I would not really consider it a "50 yard squirrel rifle" per se although I am sure it could kill one at such a range if presented the right opportunity...
Click to expand...

I am assuming you are not talking specifically about my rifle and more about AF rifles in general or maybe one you have?


I think any of them can be made to shoot well enough to be a fifty yard squirrel rifle with nothing more than the right pellet, a good match of power wheel setting to pellet and an optic. This is by far the easiest air rifle I've ever worked on. You don't have to have all the crap that mine has in it and on it.

This rifle is for sure a 50 yard squirrel rifle as it sits, no problem at all. Look a the ballistics and the groups. Ninteen out of 20 shots touching a dime at 40 yards and a half inch of drop after that delivering 29 fpe at 50 yards? Of course it is a fifty yard squirrel rifle all you have to do is your part. I wouldn't call it a squirrel rifle if I didn't think it would do head shots at that distance.
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Agree completely.
 
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...once I kilt a deer with a 3.5" .45 ACP @ 35 yards...stopped it in it's tracks...but I wouldn't call a Colt Officer's Model a deer gun...

...it was an oppertunity...
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Aw, well, I am still of a mind that this Condor is in actual fact one of the best 50 yard squirrel rifles a man can take to the woods. That comes from hunting squirrels with all manner of weapons for many, many years.

The rifle will put 19 out of 20 shots on a quarter at 50 yards if I do my part. That's a head shot on a squirrel. It will put 29 foot pounds of energy on target at that range. That's a kill even with a transverse body shot. There aren't very many .22 rimfires that can put 19 out of 20 shots on a quarter at 50 yards and every one of them comes with a "one mile" caveat. Now before you decide to tell me that isn't true, show me your target. We have both been around the wagon once or twice, but I will warrant what MY experience has taught me. I had a Marlin bolt rifle in .22 that would do it. Never seen another rifle I could count on to do that with the same regularity that didn't turn a squirrel into hamburger.

So your opinion is fine... I'll be sticking with mine, if you don't mind.

On the "kilt a deer" with ... There is someone here who killed one with a knife. I've taken a dozen shooting instinctive with a forty pound recurve bow at ranges from ten feet to thirty yards. Never lost one. Never tracked one more than 70 yards.

Lets just agree to disagree rather than play pussyfoots for a day and a half?
 
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...I kilt the deer with the knife...it was a small one that had been hit by a car...trying to cut it's throat seemed needlessly cruel and dangerous...

...I got behind it away from the flailing feet and slammed the small blade into the side of it's skull...I am not calling it a deer knife...

...I am not disagreeing with you aboot anything...except maybe what I call my Airforce rifle...

...if someone asked me if it could kill a squirrel with it @ 50 yards I would say shure, but I don't know if I would shoot at one that far away...

...that would depend...like if I could even see it...LoL...

...I remember thinking highly of you for not starting a thread called the 100 yard Talondor Squirrel Rifle even though we both know such a shot would not be all that unlikely under ideal conditions... 

...I have shot them at such ranges with a .22 LR...I do not think of such a stunt as completely ethical but I have shot a few...they were just sitting there...LoL...

...I have an old Remington 511 Matchmaster I used in 1964 to take 1st in state and 3ed overall in national postal match shooting at Jack Lacy Jr. shooting club at Winchester in New Haven...it does ok @ 50 yards...I still would pass on most shots at that range...maybe not if I was at a bench shooting a baited squirrel...FWIW, my bait station is @ 25 yards...that's as far as I got...I see an occasional shot out @ 50 I would like to take but they would be in the neighbors yard...

...I am not necessarily talking aboot the TalonP/Escape here, equivalent to your Talondor, but a puny CZ S200...I have the Cayden now, but that is new...

...if I wanted an accurate .22 from the gun store I would buy a CZ...I have a .22 mag that will shoot into 1/2 inch @ 50 yards with ammo it likes...

...I never bought a CZ 22 LR because we have the 511...

...I would check out the newer Savage 22's as well...

...most old .22's indeed don't measure up to a Talon, eh...but a lot of the new ones do...

...for less than an Airforce rifle too...in some ways this is a great golden age for guns...

...I also have an old Marlin single shot rifle that you have to manually cock for each shot...my dad had it for running "Fitz Luck" at the gun club...ironically it was/is a sub MOA gun too...it is a cheap pos but solid as a base ball bat and has a good barrel...Marlins are like that...

...one big reason I like to shoot pellet guns around here because the pellets don't go a mile...I did notice this...

...another thing I noticed is how accurate good ones are... (grin)

...FWIW I have not fired a powder burner in three years...that was to qualify for a job I had to give up and it wasn't cheap...

...your logic has convinced me...I am going to refer to my Escape as a "50 yard squirrel rifle" going forward...

...if some one questions this, I will say "If you do your part !" .!. :D .!.

...seriously, this has been a question of ethics and semantics, not marksmanship and ballistics...

...we wouldn't want unexperienced shooters getting cavalier aboot shooting tree rats at extended ranges...

...they need to be well hit to kill quickly...(the tree rats, not the n00bs)😬
 
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.

.!. :D .!.

...we wouldn't want unexperienced shooters getting cavalier aboot shooting tree rats at extended ranges...
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So, we are going to play pussyfoots for a day and a half. 

Look, you have crapped all over this thread, trying to make the point that YOU think shooting squirrels at fifty yards with an air rifle is unethical. I get it. Sadly I am not sure how to break this to you though I have tried. This poor moron does not agree with your opinion and worse even than that never will.

Your little graphic is not cute. I don't like it. It is a flagrant insult in polite society. It is in poor taste. It alone is sufficient cause to report your post to a moderator. I'll pass on that option THIS TIME.

No we would not want inexperienced shooters getting cavalier about shooting tree rats at extended ranges. We don't want to tell them lies about what they may some day find to be a trivial exercise either.

Now if you are finished, may I have my thread back? You have not said anything that I can see which had any real value at all.

Note: Cleaned up some of the emotional diatribe ...
 
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