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I'm going to use this spot in this thread to develop a story about a Talondor rifle I have been playing with for a few years now. Once I have all my data in this thread I'll reorganize it and turn it into a PDF and put a link to the file here.
I've had this old rifle for a long time. I don't have a clue how long the guy I bought it from had it but it has the old safety on it. I believe the most I ever saw it produce is about what Shamboozie is getting out of his Talondor. It has been through several rounds of modification both before I bought it and since.
My current intention is to take it from a rifle primarily intended for night pesting from a stand to a 50 yard squirrel rifle for walking the woods all day. I think I'm about there with it and I'll start posting pictures as I take them.
This part of the document is about the current configuration of the rifle and what the shot strings look like.
I think the rifle was originaly a Talon. It has been configured with the large tank and had other modifications to increase the power levels. It has a 12" barrel and 90 gram hammer and a custom top hat and spring. There are no restricters in the top hat. The rifle was regulated and I removed the regulator because I wanted to reduce overall length. It had an ATN X-Sight II mounted on it for a long time. I decided to lighten things up and replaced that with a UTG 3x12 mil/mil scope on medium rings (3.25" above the bore). In that process I had a problem with what I believe was a slightly bent rail. I had to shim the rings. I'll detail that later in this piece. This rifle has the SS system and is certainly quiet enough to hunt with as is. I also have a Donny FL Tanto rigged to it. Generally I do not attach the Tanto to the rifle because I don't like the additional length; however, I certainly would if I wanted the additional moderation. That little device makes a big difference. A shot at a squirrel without the moderator will alert the other squirrels but not alarm them. A shot with the moderator does not alert the other squirrels even if they are close to the intended target. The moderator is a worthwhile option to keep handy for those very calm quiet days when there is no breeze and no background noise.
The rifle was shooting at 770 fps for 40 shots when the regulator was on the rifle. That's about 33 FPE. It is more than enough to kill squirrels stone dead on impact and the rifle has taken plenty of squirrels from a bench. I removed the regulator and installed the heavy hammer, the custom top hat and an O-ring under the top hat to limit valve opening. I installed a custom spring which was almost identical to the OEM spring before it was modified by the previous owner. This stiffened up the bolt. Cocking takes a bit more effort than it did before.
Currently the power wheel is set to 6-1. I arrived at that setting by shooting the rifle at each setting of the wheel and creating a graph. It looked a lot like this
You'll notice in the raw data there are labels for "Up" and "Down" and "Average". This action design is sensitive to improper lubrication both excess and too dry. Shamboozie gave me some ideas as to how to slick the action up a bit and I subsequently did that. Even with a properly lubed mechanism when you set the power wheel while increasing the setting there is a certain hysteresis that remains in the system and needs to settle out (at least there is with this rifle). The same happens when approaching the power setting while reducing the power wheel. So I just collected both settings and averaged that out. "Good enough for gubmit work." These data were collected when there was still a bit of "chatter" in the mechanism. They are rough, but good enough.
The data told me that I get my best efficiency around a wheel setting of 6-1. A few days later I shot 60 shots on a full tank. The tank was filled to 3100 psi. There was 2000 psi remaining after the 60 shot string. I plugged that data into the statistics function of Chairgun and manipulated the starting and ending shots until I found the best 30 shots. I made several graphs while doing that. Here are the two that matter:
60 shots ^^^
30 shots ^^^
Well in the end I tossed the first ten shots from the 60 shot string. Since I started the string at 3100 and ended it at 2000 psi it is easy approximate that I used 1100/60 psi per shot. That number is about 18.3 psi/shot. For a total of about 183 psi for the first ten shots. Why does this matter? Well I don't really need 60 shots and the best 30 start at around number 10. The gun is no longer regulated so the fill point becomes important when selecting the starting pressure that gives you the beginning of the best part of your available shot string. From here on out I'll just fill to 2900 on my compressor gauge. That will put me at about the right place to get my best 30 shots before a refill at about 2400 psi. There are additional shots in that final 400 psi if I want to take them, but if I have shot 30 in the woods and not taken my limit that day something is very wrong.
So now the rifle is configured to shoot thirty shots at 840 fps (~40 fpe) with an ES of 33 and an SD of 9. That will do.
ZEROING
I got the rifle out this afternoon. It was blowing a storm and cold but needed to get a start on setting up a zero.
The gun is shooting the JSB Exacts at 840 fps for about 40 fpe. That will certainly do for anything smaller than about 20 pounds body weight. Well it will according to the old 2 foot pounds of energy for every pound of body weight rule of thumb. Your mileage may vary. It has worked well for me.
For a dime sized kill zone, Chairgun gave me a near zero of 25 yards and a far zero of 44 yards. It gave me a point on spread of 20 to 49 yards. Good enough. So the 50 yard squirrel rifle can just be pointed and shot and we don't have to fiddle with the range finder on anything but shots over 50 yards but we aren't going to try those (right). The vast majority of shots are going to fall in that 20 to 50 yard spread.
Once I got the scope shimmed (which I will detail elsewhere in this post) I set up a target at my near zero (25 yards) and shot to get a group and get a rough zero. This target is a mess but shows what I did to get that.
In this target there are three groups. Group 1 on top left is the five shot group I shot at 25 yards to establish the current zero. Group number two is the group I shot while adjusting the zero with the last ten shots of about 13 shots total going into the circled part of the group. Looks like it is zeroed doesn't it? It's not. I then moved the target to my far zero and shot five shots. The quarter is just covering them. They are low. That's why I refine my zero to always agree with what Charigun says is my far zero. A half an inch movement at the far zero translates to about a quarter inch at the near zero.
After I established the zero I shot this target.
That target was shot at 44 yards, my far zero. You can imagine how much I was scratching my head. Group 1 started out nice and then went to garbage. I started shooting group 2 and it immediately went to garbage. Mind you there was a stout and variable wind blowing left to right, still??? Well I shot group 4 (5 shots) bottom right and then I said to myself, "SELF! This rifle shoots better than this. WTF?" I decided to remove the DonnyFL adapter from the end of the barrel and replace it with the original barrel cap. I probably had that adapter "cock eyed" and I imagine it was clipping the pellets. The OEM cap solved the problem.
Then I shot group number 3. Ten shots 44 yards, about 3/4 of an inch tall and half an inch wide.
We have a squirrel rifle.
Now the next part of this will be about how to shim your scope rings.
I've had this old rifle for a long time. I don't have a clue how long the guy I bought it from had it but it has the old safety on it. I believe the most I ever saw it produce is about what Shamboozie is getting out of his Talondor. It has been through several rounds of modification both before I bought it and since.
My current intention is to take it from a rifle primarily intended for night pesting from a stand to a 50 yard squirrel rifle for walking the woods all day. I think I'm about there with it and I'll start posting pictures as I take them.
This part of the document is about the current configuration of the rifle and what the shot strings look like.
I think the rifle was originaly a Talon. It has been configured with the large tank and had other modifications to increase the power levels. It has a 12" barrel and 90 gram hammer and a custom top hat and spring. There are no restricters in the top hat. The rifle was regulated and I removed the regulator because I wanted to reduce overall length. It had an ATN X-Sight II mounted on it for a long time. I decided to lighten things up and replaced that with a UTG 3x12 mil/mil scope on medium rings (3.25" above the bore). In that process I had a problem with what I believe was a slightly bent rail. I had to shim the rings. I'll detail that later in this piece. This rifle has the SS system and is certainly quiet enough to hunt with as is. I also have a Donny FL Tanto rigged to it. Generally I do not attach the Tanto to the rifle because I don't like the additional length; however, I certainly would if I wanted the additional moderation. That little device makes a big difference. A shot at a squirrel without the moderator will alert the other squirrels but not alarm them. A shot with the moderator does not alert the other squirrels even if they are close to the intended target. The moderator is a worthwhile option to keep handy for those very calm quiet days when there is no breeze and no background noise.
The rifle was shooting at 770 fps for 40 shots when the regulator was on the rifle. That's about 33 FPE. It is more than enough to kill squirrels stone dead on impact and the rifle has taken plenty of squirrels from a bench. I removed the regulator and installed the heavy hammer, the custom top hat and an O-ring under the top hat to limit valve opening. I installed a custom spring which was almost identical to the OEM spring before it was modified by the previous owner. This stiffened up the bolt. Cocking takes a bit more effort than it did before.
Currently the power wheel is set to 6-1. I arrived at that setting by shooting the rifle at each setting of the wheel and creating a graph. It looked a lot like this
You'll notice in the raw data there are labels for "Up" and "Down" and "Average". This action design is sensitive to improper lubrication both excess and too dry. Shamboozie gave me some ideas as to how to slick the action up a bit and I subsequently did that. Even with a properly lubed mechanism when you set the power wheel while increasing the setting there is a certain hysteresis that remains in the system and needs to settle out (at least there is with this rifle). The same happens when approaching the power setting while reducing the power wheel. So I just collected both settings and averaged that out. "Good enough for gubmit work." These data were collected when there was still a bit of "chatter" in the mechanism. They are rough, but good enough.
The data told me that I get my best efficiency around a wheel setting of 6-1. A few days later I shot 60 shots on a full tank. The tank was filled to 3100 psi. There was 2000 psi remaining after the 60 shot string. I plugged that data into the statistics function of Chairgun and manipulated the starting and ending shots until I found the best 30 shots. I made several graphs while doing that. Here are the two that matter:
60 shots ^^^
30 shots ^^^
Well in the end I tossed the first ten shots from the 60 shot string. Since I started the string at 3100 and ended it at 2000 psi it is easy approximate that I used 1100/60 psi per shot. That number is about 18.3 psi/shot. For a total of about 183 psi for the first ten shots. Why does this matter? Well I don't really need 60 shots and the best 30 start at around number 10. The gun is no longer regulated so the fill point becomes important when selecting the starting pressure that gives you the beginning of the best part of your available shot string. From here on out I'll just fill to 2900 on my compressor gauge. That will put me at about the right place to get my best 30 shots before a refill at about 2400 psi. There are additional shots in that final 400 psi if I want to take them, but if I have shot 30 in the woods and not taken my limit that day something is very wrong.
So now the rifle is configured to shoot thirty shots at 840 fps (~40 fpe) with an ES of 33 and an SD of 9. That will do.
ZEROING
I got the rifle out this afternoon. It was blowing a storm and cold but needed to get a start on setting up a zero.
The gun is shooting the JSB Exacts at 840 fps for about 40 fpe. That will certainly do for anything smaller than about 20 pounds body weight. Well it will according to the old 2 foot pounds of energy for every pound of body weight rule of thumb. Your mileage may vary. It has worked well for me.
For a dime sized kill zone, Chairgun gave me a near zero of 25 yards and a far zero of 44 yards. It gave me a point on spread of 20 to 49 yards. Good enough. So the 50 yard squirrel rifle can just be pointed and shot and we don't have to fiddle with the range finder on anything but shots over 50 yards but we aren't going to try those (right
). The vast majority of shots are going to fall in that 20 to 50 yard spread.Once I got the scope shimmed (which I will detail elsewhere in this post) I set up a target at my near zero (25 yards) and shot to get a group and get a rough zero. This target is a mess but shows what I did to get that.
In this target there are three groups. Group 1 on top left is the five shot group I shot at 25 yards to establish the current zero. Group number two is the group I shot while adjusting the zero with the last ten shots of about 13 shots total going into the circled part of the group. Looks like it is zeroed doesn't it? It's not. I then moved the target to my far zero and shot five shots. The quarter is just covering them. They are low. That's why I refine my zero to always agree with what Charigun says is my far zero. A half an inch movement at the far zero translates to about a quarter inch at the near zero.
After I established the zero I shot this target.
That target was shot at 44 yards, my far zero. You can imagine how much I was scratching my head. Group 1 started out nice and then went to garbage. I started shooting group 2 and it immediately went to garbage. Mind you there was a stout and variable wind blowing left to right, still??? Well I shot group 4 (5 shots) bottom right and then I said to myself, "SELF! This rifle shoots better than this. WTF?" I decided to remove the DonnyFL adapter from the end of the barrel and replace it with the original barrel cap. I probably had that adapter "cock eyed" and I imagine it was clipping the pellets. The OEM cap solved the problem.
Then I shot group number 3. Ten shots 44 yards, about 3/4 of an inch tall and half an inch wide.
We have a squirrel rifle.
Now the next part of this will be about how to shim your scope rings.
