Supersonic Accuracy with FX Impact M3 and Patriot Javelin Slugs?

[UpNorthAirGunner]

https://youtu.be/0PlY3iVXlBY

SCIENCE FOR THE WIN!!!!! The last few weeks I’ve been on the soapbox of internal ballistics and barrel harmonics, but today I got taken to school on external ballistics. It’s so awesome to be able to see the theoretical actually on paper to become empirical evidence! So I’m slinging Patriot Javelin 23 grain slugs and 22 grain FX Hybrids during this testing with the FX Impact M3 right at and breaking the sound barrier. SUBSONIC IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE! This was just to test the science...

My pocket chrony can’t pick it up but I’m hearing it make that sonic crack on the majority of my shots. Based on my sea level elevation and temperature and barometric pressure I know I’m within a few FPS of that mark. The cool part about this test was it shows that slug shaped projectiles can in fact go supersonic and quickly come back through the transonic zone and have amazing accuracy at 100 yards, but..... In this test it also proves with 100% certainty that the projectile becomes SUPER sensitive to wind coming back through that transonic zone. I was able to shoot 5 shot groups right at MOA accuracy when I waited for there to be only a slight breeze from my shooting position, but when I just let them fly with the wind blowing they could barely stay on paper. I know all of this academically, but getting it all on video was quite cool. External Ballistics science baby!

 

[AlaskaAirgunner]

Interesting testing, and great info to add to the knowledge base. I love what you're doing in the airgun world Chris!

 

[UpNorthAirGunner]

Interesting testing, and great info to add to the knowledge base. I love what you're doing in the airgun world Chris!

Thanks brother! Just sharing my journey!

 

[dizzums]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ... just like any firearm pistol or smaller rifle like .22 .. if you want to go play can i hit it at 200 go ahead with tje 5 'inch' pounds of energy youll have out there .. you could hand throw a marble with more force lol ..

 

[JohnnyPDX]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ... just like any firearm pistol or smaller rifle like .22 .. if you want to go play can i hit it at 200 go ahead with tje 5 'inch' pounds of energy youll have out there .. you could hand throw a marble with more force lol ..

What do you mean?

 

[AlaskaAirgunner]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ... just like any firearm pistol or smaller rifle like .22 .. if you want to go play can i hit it at 200 go ahead with tje 5 'inch' pounds of energy youll have out there .. you could hand throw a marble with more force lol ..

Some serious experience and intellect went into that little gem. Thanks for your enlightening contributions...

 

[bandg]

Very interesting. I don't watch a lot of videos but i did watch all of this one. Interesting topic that I have curiosity about.

I don't really shoot my airguns supersonic (slugs or pellets) and I don't commonly shoot beyond 65 yards. But I have a few questions and maybe a usable suggestion (maybe???) for your next video. You were shooting one of the most tunable rifles available. Why not, right then and there under the same conditions, turn the knob and drop the velocity from 1120ish to maybe 1000 or maybe even 850. Could that have produced some apples to apples comparison of varying velocity with the same slug to relative wind drift across that "wall"?

 

[bandg]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ... just like any firearm pistol or smaller rifle like .22 .. if you want to go play can i hit it at 200 go ahead with tje 5 'inch' pounds of energy youll have out there .. you could hand throw a marble with more force lol ..

Some serious experience and intellect went into that little gem. Thanks for your enlightening contributions...

Ain't that the truth.

 

[jking]

Nice video Chris, haha you say good wind but I could still see the wind blowing hard at least at the target. Just my typical day here in SE NM (tree-less btw). Keep um coming. 

Jimmy

 

[UpNorthAirGunner]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ... just like any firearm pistol or smaller rifle like .22 .. if you want to go play can i hit it at 200 go ahead with tje 5 'inch' pounds of energy youll have out there .. you could hand throw a marble with more force lol ..

Well........ I'll just leave this right here for ya.... Want to meet on the playground to play "marbles" with 80+ FPE in this .22 "pellet gun"?

https://youtu.be/5e30KOsuylk

 

[mtnGhost]

I've had similar results shooting lots of .22cal ammo supersonic (primarily with FX barrels setup for my Veterans). That little bit of wind causes drift to be exacerbated, more so with lower BC ammo (<0.11).

Here's my overall take:

• Most of the commercial airgun slugs and barrels are not great for supersonic velocities 
• A barrel with the correct twist rate for shooting ammo in high transonic / low supersonic ranges will probably not be very accurate with the projectile in slower subsonic ranges
• There are "magic" transonic / supersonic velocity ranges for some airgun slug + barrel combinations, where wind drift is actually much less at higher ranges than they are in lower ranges

Case in point for the last bullet point - the 24.8gr NSAs have been extremely accurate up to 1200fps with the 700mm slug A. The wind drift is actually worse from ~1080-1175. Similarly, my results with the (.223) 28.5gr Varmint Knockers in my 2020 Huben K1 have shown me that there is a magic sweet spot, where drift diminishes with higher velocities (1040fps drifts MUCH harder than 1060-1100).

My theory on this is that there are little "pockets" where the ammo is not affected as much (or as long) during flight time by the supersonic shockwaves that it creates. There are little supersonic vortices that are created when the projectile is traveling at transonic speeds, even when the projectile itself doesn't break the sound barrier. 

So with certain projectiles, tighter groups can be observed at certain higher velocity ranges, where that same projectile will produce larger groups at lower transonic velocities. 

Generally speaking, the heavier the projectile, the higher the BC. Most .22cal airgun barrels are not designed for high BC airgun slugs. That said, I also do not at all believe that a "perfect" supersonic barrel would ever be as perfect when shooting that projectile in low subsonic velocities.

 

[Hobbyman2007]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ... just like any firearm pistol or smaller rifle like .22 .. if you want to go play can i hit it at 200 go ahead with tje 5 'inch' pounds of energy youll have out there .. you could hand throw a marble with more force lol ..

Where did this guy come from? It’s super nice of him to share his deep thoughts on external ballistics of the lowly pellet guns we here seem to obsess about. I would bet he bought into the 6.5 creedmore fan club. I’m calling troll on this one

 

[knifemaker]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ... just like any firearm pistol or smaller rifle like .22 .. if you want to go play can i hit it at 200 go ahead with tje 5 'inch' pounds of energy youll have out there .. you could hand throw a marble with more force lol ..



Lol, he doesn't know what he doesn't know. Any Pistol. Humm, Elmer Keith, yes the man who brought us the .357, .44 and .41 magnums still holds the record on a one shot kill on a Bull Elk at over 700 yards. Sorry, 5 inch lb's wouldn't break the hide. Much less drop an Bull elk at that range. 

I've watched Tofazfou drop many critter way past 200 yards with his Air Guns. I've had quite a bit of success myself. Both with rim fires , hand guns and my custom Air Guns. 

Guess ya just don't know, what ya don't know. Or is that Ignorance is bliss, with a good dose of arrogance born o said ignorance.

KnifeMaker

 

[far_shot]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ...

I beg to differ. Nearly stock MkII .30 Impact at 237 yards.44 gr JSB.Well over 60% hits.
Full screen and you can see the pellets fly off to the side before the sound of the hit comes back

 

[Guest]

doesnt matter what it is .. pellet guns are 75 yard guns at best ...

I beg to differ. Nearly stock MkII .30 Impact at 237 yards.44 gr JSB.Well over 60% hits.
Full screen and you can see the pellets fly off to the side before the sound of the hit comes back

So the fact it actually flies 237yards its suitable for that distance? 

 

[knifemaker]

Yes, yes it is, in the right weather conditions and in the hand of a competent shot who knows his equipment well. 

Knife 

 

[far_shot]

So the fact it actually flies 237yards its suitable for that distance?

Absolutely for long range precision target shooting. These are the JSB 44 gr .30 pellets that were laying in the snow after hitting the ram.This only is possible with repeatability if it is absolutely dead calm for pellet rifles.

I've been shooting competition since 1978. .17 Rem through 50 BMG bench rest.Local,state,regional and International events of nearly every disciple....muzzle loaders to combat. .Member or officer of 6 different gun clubs/organizations. I've lost way more than I have ever won and these aren't even a third of what I have won.I'm no master/expert,but I have been around for a while. Best years of life is shooting and the comradery