Submit Comments before December 9, 2022 to Fish and Game Commission by email on Proposal to allow Hunting of Wild Pig with Big Bore Airguns in CA

Here is the link with further information:


If you are commenting by email, in your comment, include the Agenda Item in your subject line. For example, if you are commenting on the Wild Pig item, include in your subject line of your email, the following: Comment on FGC December 15, 2022 Agenda Item 22(B)(I), Petition 2021-007: Request to revise authorized methods of take and designation for wild pig.

I suggest that you contact the Fish and Game Commission with your thoughts now by e-mail at [email protected], but by all means, no later than the evening of December 8, 2022 since most people are off to work by the morning of Friday, December 9 (the supplemental comment deadline being noon on December 9, 2022).


In short, the proposal is to allow an additional method of take for wild pig which would be "big bore BB devices" - in the proposal, airguns which would be indicated as 0.357 or above.

There is a presentation that has been developed, 'A Case for Big Bore BB Devices as a Method of Take for Wild Pig in California' (for Petition 2021-007, December 14-15, 2022): that is available here as a PDF via the following link for about two weeks from the date of this post, it will be unavailable after that. As noted in the presentation, the process began in May of 2017 and formally was submitted in May of 2021, so the regulatory petition process takes a long time to get to a petition, and if it is approved at the December meeting of the CA Fish and Game Commission, there will be more time involved before this regulatory change requesting an additional method of take can be added and implemented, but it would be worth having the additional method if the FGC does in fact approve it.

https://safenote.co/r/638d26c84afe16@93356294

Agenda for the December meeting of the Fish and Game Commission with link on how to participate via zoom: https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=205954&inline

Thanks for reading!
 
As an aside on this one (California Fish and Game Commission, evaluating whether or not to approve big bore airguns, known in state as "BB devices," as an allowed method of take for CA wild pig hunting), the Fish and Game Commission decided at its December 15, 2022 meeting date to deliberate further on the issue (they didn't deny it, but didn't approve it yet either), and has scheduled what will likely be a final decision on the regulatory petition on this issue for the February 2023 meeting.

That can be seen here: https://fgc.ca.gov/Meetings/2023#feb

Technically the meeting will be "February 8-9, 2023." I don't yet know which of those dates the big bore airgun decision will fall on, but in advance of the February 2023 date you can send any comments on it as follows:

In your email, use the subject line:
Comment on Feb. 8-9, 2023 Agenda item TBD: Petition 2021-007: Request to revise authorized methods of take and designation for wild pig.

Send in your emails before 5:00 PM Pacific time, January 25, 2023 (that's the comment deadline that you'd need to have your written comments in by in order to ensure the Commissioners see your written comments before the February meeting).

(This is the petition that makes 'A Case for Big Bore BB Devices as a Method of Take for Wild Pig in California' as was shown in the December 2022 presentation to the Commission.)

Send to: [email protected] (this is the e-mail address for the California Fish and Game Commission)
cc to: [email protected]

Please send your thoughts regarding:

- whether or not you support the petition (I hope you do, but please describe in your email whether or not you support it)
- what sort of "BB devices" (these are what they call airguns in California law) you have used to successfully hunt wild pig, if you have done that (in a state outside California, since California doesn't yet allow it).
- what are some examples of "big bore airguns" (what you would consider viable big bore BB devices) appropriate to hunt wild pig with? Some examples that have come up: Texan SS, Benjamin Bulldog (there are many more, please feel free to create a list that you feel is right in your e-mail to the Commission).
- examples of slugs used and grains for wild pig with airguns (I have recommended to staff that the minimum grains be 145 as a guideline) - Note: the Nosler eXTREME Ballistic Tip, which can be used with the Benjamin Bulldog .357, is 145-grain.
- example of what should be minimum power (for example, 800 fps at first shot?)


The proposal being considered by the Commission is:

"Alternatively, the Commission could make a change that would require .357 caliber minimum for BB devices to hunt wild boar (this would not alter any California lead free regulations), and clarify that hunting boar with centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles of .30 caliber or greater in designation is permitted (lead free would still be required as the law currently requires if we are using centerfire rounds)."

Notably, in California, BB devices (airguns) do not require lead free rounds and do not have silencer / suppressor prohibitions (those California prohibitions / limitations only apply to actual firearms, and BB devices are not firearms. As such, the proposal suggests leaving intact the lead free hunting regulation that California is using with firearms and making no change to the law or regulation California has with BB devices with respect to the pellets or slugs allowed (as any type are allowed). The proposal is intended specifically and simply to gain Fish and Game Commission approval of BB devices, in particular big bore BB devices of .357 caliber minimum, as an allowed method of take for wild pig.

The proposal was first submitted to the FGC on May 23, 2017 (more than five and a half years ago), with engagement to the California Wildlife Resources Committee and California Fish and Game Commission on the subject annually thereafter, and a formal regulatory petition was submitted on the subject of big bore BB devices (airguns) as a method of take for wild pigs in California to the California Fish and Game Commission on May 10, 2021 with a Request to Correct Authority Cited (and request to waive 10 day response requirement) submitted on May 18, 2021. With California's SB 856 (the wild pig bill) becoming law on Sept. 22, 2022, the remaining element of the petition not addressed by SB 856, is found in that part of the regulatory petition (2021-007) which recommends "change that would require .357 caliber minimum for BB devices to hunt wild boar." Full implementation of this change (if the Commission approves it) would take place in mid-2024 unless the Commission or the Legislature decide to accelerate the process, though the first step is actually getting it approved.

Usually the Commission publishes the Zoom link at the top of the PDF agenda online a day or so before the meeting date, so that anyone can attend online.

To sign up to receive agendas and notices, you can go here: https://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/CNRA/signup/35154
 
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I hate to be a fun-sucker, but...

Here is a prediction: If this get through and is added to F&W regs, the next year there will be a State Proposition amending the CA Constitution that will re-classify "BB devices larger than .177 caliber" as firearms..which will effectively do away with lead pellets for hunting and the thingies that we all use to quiet our airguns. The anti-hunters that got mountain lion hunting banned in CA will use the same tactics..lies..to turn the electorate against "BB devices" by using any of the thousands of YouTube videos of squirrels doing the "helicopter dance" and larger game animals running off after being hit.

Enjoy your "BB devices" while you can. :-(

Just sayin'. Flame away.
 
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I hate to be a fun-sucker, but...

Here is a prediction: If this get through and is added to F&W regs, the next year there will be a State Proposition amending the CA Constitution that will re-classify "BB devices larger than .177 caliber" as firearms..which will effectively do away with lead pellets for hunting and the thingies that we all use to quiet our airguns. The anti-hunters that got mountain lion hunting banned in CA will use the same tactics..lies..to turn the electorate against "BB devices" by using any of the thousands of YouTube videos of squirrels doing the "helicopter dance" and larger game animals running off after being hit.

Enjoy your "BB devices" while you can. :-(

Just sayin'. Flame away.

Thanks for your thoughts. Here are my thoughts on that possibility....

1. It's a very heavy lift to make a State Proposition to amend the State Constitution. Not hard for the CA legislature to pass something internal to the Legislature to propose to amend the Constitution or to recommend it be put on the ballot, but very hard to make a convincing case that it be passed, believe it or not. That is why Proposition 16 in 2020 did not pass in California, as an example (and it was a good thing it did not, though I believe if it had passed it would have been challenged in court and eventually overturned).

What was Proposition 16, you ask?
Proposition 16 was a California ballot proposition that appeared on the November 3, 2020, general election ballot, asking California voters to amend the Constitution of California to repeal Proposition 209 (1996). Proposition 209 amended the state constitution to prohibit government institutions from considering race, sex, or ethnicity, specifically in the areas of public employment, public contracting, and public education. Therefore, Proposition 209 banned the use of race- and gender-based affirmative action in California's public sector.
The legislatively referred state constitutional amendment was originally introduced as California Assembly Constitutional Amendment No. 5 (ACA 5) by Democratic Assembly Members Weber, Gipson, and Santiago on January 18, 2019. In June 2020, the California State Legislature passed ACA 5 on a mostly party-line vote, voting 60–14 on June 10 in the Assembly and 30–10 on June 24 in the Senate.
The measure was defeated 57% to 43%.
Why was Prop 16 defeated? Because the Legislature could pass whatever it wanted on a party-line vote, but in having to submit it to the people to vote on, the people wouldn't support it because the Legislature was asking the people of California to support state-sponsored racism. For the same reason, hunting bans aren't even going to be introduced in the California legislature - whether by Constitutional amendment or by a standard legislative bill process (although California is happy to keep adding "gun control" bills every year). There are simply too many gun owners and hunters in California for that tactic to have any chance whatsoever.


2. It's rather easy for the Legislature in California to pass a law if it wants to. Technically speaking, if you watch the Legislature in California, they will in fact pass "anything." The question is, what is this "anything," and would they in fact bother to do away with lead pellets for hunting (and classify BB devices larger than a certain caliber as firearms)?

I don't think so, for the following reasons:

One, is that the proposal of mine was technically introduced five and half years ago (with a great deal of back and forth involving different legislators, some interested persons, Wildlife Resource Committee members, Fish and Game Commission members, and Fish and Game Commission staff), and formally was submitted for Commission review in May of 2021. In all of that time -- from when this process began until now - there was never a single legislator from the California government who expressed opposition to me personally or who appeared before the Commission to do so. And my regulatory petition was not the only one to ask for a method of take to be added to include larger / big bore BB devices be allowed to hunt animals in the state (for certain animals where currently that method of take is not allowed). During these years, for all this time, one thing did happen, however: SB 856 was passed at the State legislature rather recently and was signed into law Sept. 22, 2022, which had to do with wild pig. A previous iteration of that bill in a different legislative year didn't pass because of concerns of ranchers, if I recall correctly. This bill (SB 856) still drew objections of some hunters (including myself) and some ranchers, but managed to pass and become law. The point of me mentioning SB 856 however, was that an exemption was drawn into the bill that made obvious the intent of the Legislature - that the wild pig would be redefined from its current classification to that of an exotic game mammal effective July 2024, and that hunting of mammals with firearms (those are the words of the bill, now law) with lead free ammunition would continue to be required, or implemented directly. You see the word "firearms." In California, BB devices are not defined as firearms, and legislators know this. Legislators had also been engaged multiple times on the issue in this legislative session and in a prior legislative session with a request to see if there would be a possibility of crafting an exemption for wild pig. Therefore, if legislators wanted to ban hunting with wild pig they would have done so during the finalization of the bill language for SB 856 (which became law in 2022), but they did not, because part of their legislative intent was to allow the bill to be passed and thus allow people with airguns to hunt wild pig without having to be constrained by lead-free ammunition regulation.

Still, though, even with SB 856 (2022) becoming law, this does not automatically allow people in CA to hunt wild pigs with airguns if you have a CA hunting license and a pig tag or validation when the pig validations come into effect. This is because the CA Fish and Game Commission must first approve big bore BB devices as a method of take for wild pig (since that doesn't yet show as an approved method of take for wild pig in Fish and Game Code) and then finalize implementation (which if they approve it would likely be finalized by July 2024, consistent with State law implementation for SB 856 (2022)).

If legislators were to change this in the future (if they were to change the law to make it so that BB devices above a certain caliber require lead free ammunition for hunting, for example), that would make it impossible for airgunners in the State to hunt pigs. As I pointed out in my December 2022 presentation to the Commission (from one of my slides in a multi-slide PowerPoint on this issue, which has been analyzed by the Commission now for over five and a half years),

"One manufacturer, LeHigh, makes a 0.50 caliber copper slug for BB devices, however, this is perpetually out of stock and there are not sizes made for big bore BB devices (in 0.357 or 0.457). The 0.50 caliber copper slug appears to be made only for BB devices in 0.510. This is at:

https://lehighdefense.com/our-technologies/controlled-fracturing.html?all_firearm_type=2864 "

"The EcoSlug is even more limited as not only is it frequently out of stock for sometimes months at a time but it only is suitable for specific types of airguns - the EcoSlug is designed specifically for the Seneca / Sam Yang Dragon Claw .50 caliber. EcoSlug page:


http://www.eco-slug.com/orderpellets.htm

Finally, based on observations in the field from those who have used these lead free pellets or slugs with BB devices (and who have documented their experience), their report produces a loud crack, and so apart from the issue of having to clean tin fragments out of a barrel (a problem unique to lead free pellets or slugs), the noise is generally considered to be louder than a standard lead slug. More noise generated is less advantageous to a hunter."

"The Commission should therefore adopt the proposal without restriction on the type of slug or type of BB device since as technology advances (and as more ecological slug types enter the market), hunters using BB devices will adopt and adapt new available technology to their use."

(copied as text from part of my December 2022 Powerpoint presentation to the Commission)

Note: There has - over the last five and a half years - been not a single legislator interested in this regulatory proposal, to my knowledge, except, I think that a part of my petition (part of my petition was to remove wild pig from big game classification and thus remove or reduce tag requirements) could not be done via regulation change - so it was mentioned by Commissioners a long while ago that this would have to happen via law if at all. I didn't like SB 856 (2022) (because of its mandates about what private property owners could and could not do with fencing and how it treats anyone who fences in or traps wild pigs as having an unpermitted "contained" wild pig "hunting preserve" - trying to put private property owners within the purview of DFW agents. I don't think that will work long term. But what SB 856 (2022) did do that I was glad of, was to remove wild pig from its current classification and redefine it as exotic game mammal effective July 2024.

The reason I mention this is I don't think there is legislative support for changing airgun regulation to make it more difficult for airgun hunters to hunt (at least not wild pig, if airguns are approved as a method of take for wild pig) regardless of what their claim is for the reason. Wild pig are a huge problem in CA. Part of the reason for the proposal is adding flexibility and having more methods to deal with wild pig, not less. People are already hunting and are allowed to hunt, turkey, rabbit, and other animals with airguns in CA and haven't been required to use lead free. There's no reason to change that to require lead free now for BB devices just because hunting methods are expanded.

It's up to the Fish and Game Commission in February by State law, not the DFW, not staff, not legislators. Just the Commissioners. They decide, and usually follow staff recommendation - but public input carries a lot of weight. So, comment.
 
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Thanks for your thoughts. Here are my thoughts on that possibility....

2. It's rather easy for the Legislature in California to pass a law if it wants to. Technically speaking, if you watch the Legislature in California, they will in fact pass "anything." The question is, what is this "anything," and would they in fact bother to do away with lead pellets for hunting (and classify BB devices larger than a certain caliber as firearms)?
Very respectfully, the legislature won't touch this because they are too spineless. However, they will very happily allow the uninformed voters do their dirty work for them.

That is why Prop 117 passed and a subsequent proposition to repeal it failed. The gullible electorate in CA vote their feelings instead of following the facts. It did not matter that Prop 117 was based entirely on lies.
 
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Very respectfully, the legislature won't touch this because they are too spineless. However, they will very happily allow the uninformed voters do their dirty work for them.

That is why Prop 117 passed and a subsequent proposition to repeal it failed. The gullible electorate in CA vote their feelings instead of following the facts. It did not matter that Prop 117 was based entirely on lies.
I don't want to get buried in the weeds (too much) about why Propositions pass or fail, though I did want to emphasize that voters did see through Prop 16 (2020) in California and then voted it down. As to Prop 117, I'm assuming you mean the one in 1990, which passed 52.42 (yes) to 47.58 (no) percent, which was described as "Establishes Habitat Conservation Fund. Transfers $30 million to Fund annually from existing environmental funds and General Fund. Monies from Fund appropriated to Wildlife Conservation Board; Coastal, Tahoe, Santa Monica Mountains Conservancies; state and local parks programs. Funds to be used principally for acquisition of deer and mountain lion habitat; rare and endangered species habitat. Remaining funding for wetlands; riparian and aquatic habitat; open space; other environmental purposes. Prohibits taking of mountain lions unless for protection of life, livestock or other property. Permit for taking required, but prohibits use of poison, leg-hold or metal-jawed traps and snares." That had a lot of long range effects which I think people did not think through. In my mind, wildlife policy should not be established at the ballot box but rather based on studies and developed (with changes periodically) by the Fish and Game Commission. So I don't think this sort of thing belongs on the ballot at all. But that's just me.

Moving past that (and moving away from getting caught up in discussion of the general problem of California ballot propositions, which generally speaking are not a great idea IMHO), I want to return to the issue of where we are now. So where are we now? The proposed regulatory action has been in the works for years. It is now approaching a final decision, which means there is a window of time for people to comment.

As such, I wish to simply urge those who are hunters and airgunners (and particularly those who have done hunting with airguns for wild pig in the various states where it is allowed to do so, for example, Texas, Arizona, and some other states) to please e-mail the CA Fish and Game Commission regarding their thoughts before 5:00 PM Pacific time, January 25, 2023 as follows:

In your email, use the subject line:
Comment on Feb. 8-9, 2023 Agenda item TBD: Petition 2021-007: Request to revise authorized methods of take and designation for wild pig.

Send to: [email protected] (this is the e-mail address for the California Fish and Game Commission)
cc to: [email protected]

- whether or not you support the petition (I hope you do, but please describe in your email whether or not you support it)
- what sort of "BB devices" (these are what they call airguns in California law) you have used to successfully hunt wild pig, if you have done that (in a state outside California, since California doesn't yet allow it).
- what are some examples of "big bore airguns" (what you would consider viable big bore BB devices) appropriate to hunt wild pig with? Some examples that have come up: Texan SS, Benjamin Bulldog (there are many more, please feel free to create a list that you feel is right in your e-mail to the Commission).
- examples of slugs used and grains for wild pig with airguns (I have recommended to staff that the minimum grains be 145 as a guideline) - Note: the Nosler eXTREME Ballistic Tip, which can be used with the Benjamin Bulldog .357, is 145-grain. The EcoSlug (a lead free slug, for use in Seneca/Sam Yang Dragon Claw .50 caliber big bore air rifles) is also 145 grain, but that is not normally an available slug (due to delays / issues with ordering it), it is just mentioned here for comparison.
- example of what should be minimum power (for example, 800 fps at first shot?)


The (relevant part of the regulatory petition) proposal being considered by the Commission is:

"Alternatively, the Commission could make a change that would require .357 caliber minimum for BB devices to hunt wild boar (this would not alter any California lead free regulations), and clarify that hunting boar with centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles of .30 caliber or greater in designation is permitted (lead free would still be required as the law currently requires if we are using centerfire rounds)."

There are other parts of the regulatory petition, but the above part is the only one that is being seriously contemplated.

Thank you
 
Why can’t people leave a good thing alone? Why do people alway intentionally go F@&$ up a good thing for everyone else? Oh yeah, it’s called look at me on social media these days.

If you want to shoot pigs then go get a 500 dollar 308 savage with 40 dollar box of ammo to fill the tags.


To @lbc_PSI point, everyone bitch about our laws and regulations don’t make sense then turn around and say this time they will look at the facts and the subsequent regulations will make sense! 🤦‍♂️