Struggling with consistent accuracy with my ASP20

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Did some more accuracy testing today at 40ft distance. Had a hard time keeping shots in a consistent spot. I think I am having issues finding the right hold with my .22 Sig. Contrary to the Airgun Depot's claim that the Sig ASP20 is not "hold sensitive " I can surely tell you that it is ! Like ALL springers are ! I just can't seem to find the right hold. All the other spring-piston guns I've owned shot best with a firm forearm grip and gun shouldered firmly. Just resting the forearm on front bag with rear bag just behind the pistol grip did not do well. Special shout-out to all you Sig owners ! WHAT'S YOUR SECRET ?

As a side note, I decided to set up my Prochrony DLX at 40ft to see how much velocity loss would occur. I used the Sig Wraith alloy pellet. This pellet is listed at 12.35gr. I bought a nice digital reloading powder scale and this tin of pellets average 13.25gr. I knew this was the case because I weighed them on a Ohaus Triple Beam scale about a week earlier. The Sig Crux alloy tin I have is listed as 10.3gr. They are actually 9.7gr on average. All the lead pellets I checked for weight accuracy were close to their listed weight. At any rate, I shot three 13.2gr (scale weighted) Wraith pellets over my chrony at 40ft. The three shot average was 813fps at 19.4 FPE. The muzzle velocity with that weight of Wraith is 880fps. I think an extra 20ft (20yrds) would see another 100fps loss ?? Just guessing the velocity but 700fps at 20yrds is still 14.4 FPE ! Not a bad punch for that distance. Now if I can conquer this accuracy dilemma I am in. LOL !

 

[EMrider]

Thanks for the update and good luck getting your accuracy dialed-in on the new gun. I hope that this new gun proves to be a winner. 

With springers, the laws of physics don’t yield to “not hold sensitive” marketing hype. The amount of force needed to generate 20+fpe in a spring powered air rifle is substantial.



R

 

[shawnlyndy]

Look at yesterdays pyramid air blog. Covered just that subject.

 

[addertooth]

I would ask what your sights/optics are. If your optics are not parallax corrected, then exact cheek weld and eye placement becomes critical for accuracy at 40 yards. 

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Look at yesterdays pyramid air blog. Covered just that subject.

I will. THX !

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

I would ask what your sights/optics are. If your optics are not parallax corrected, then exact cheek weld and eye placement becomes critical for accuracy at 40 yards.

UTG 3-9 set at 6X magnification and parallax adjusted to the 40ft distance.

 

[TylerE.]

I got mine out the other night to sight it in. I was at 20 yrds indoors but around 40 degrees (not heated in the shed). I could see my breath between shots. Anyway, out of the 10 pellet brands that I tried the H&N FTT with the labeled 5.52 head size did the best. The Preditor Polymags were second. I have shot the gun probably 75 times so it still needs lots of breaking in but I feel like I was getting used to the trigger. I haven’t adjusted the trigger at all and it seems heavy.

I was putting the gun in a front sandbag and pulled it into my shoulder kinda hooking the butt hook? with my bottom hand. I was putting the FTT’s in average groups of 1/2”-3/4”. Not great yet but I think they will get better when it’s not so cold. The kicker for me was that my buddy was there and he had never shot the gun before and shot a group where 3 were touching and two were off about an inch to the right. His 8 year old took one shot with me steadying the front and he center punched a bullseye. His 6 year old pulled one within 1/2” of the bullseye. One shot doesn’t tell you much but I can tell you that they were not gripping it firm or pulling it into their shoulder. I will try a looser grip next time I get it out, hopefully when it’s not so cold. 

I have been shooting a beeman R9 @ 12 fpe, and a TX200 FAC rifle for the past year and this thing definitely shows you that it is in a different weight class! Not sure I will get used to the cocking effort of it compared to the other two. It is not obnoxiously hard but it definitely leaves my hand a little sore from breaking it open and then cocking it fully. It is certainly LONG reaching way up there to grab a hold of it too. It doesn’t fit in my gun safe. A great looking gun, I hope you can settle into it and start getting the groups you should. Tyler

 

[Other_Mark_B]

WHAT'S YOUR SECRET ?

My .22 ASP20 has been out for two weeks and won't be back from SIG till tomorrow. That being said, I too was having accuracy issues. From what I remember, a firm grip while holding the gun loosely in my shoulder combined with resting the front of the rifle just ahead of the trigger guard worked best for me. Groups started tightening up as I worked to hold and rest the rifle consistently as just described, in spite of the way too heavy (even after adjustment) trigger pull.

Trigger pull, BTW, is IMHO going to be the limiting factor when it comes to accuracy once each person otherwise optimizes their own hold technique.

Speaking of the trigger, has anyone actually pulled one apart and worked to improve it? Please share what you did and the results if so.

Bet wishes.

The other Mark B.

 

[GBGUNNER]

From my research I believe Sig designed the ASP 20 in .22 to use the 14.xx grain pellets. These are supposed to do around 800 fps. The lighter pellets will be faster and will spin faster leaving the barrel. This may cause some "wobble" and reduce your accuracy. I have an ASP 20 in .22 on order and I have the Diana AMO 8 in .22. It is a gas springer too and I finally either shot it enough times or I'm holding it better. It's shooting JSB's 15.xx gr. well enough to bring down the squirrels that are pulling nest material from chair cushions. Little buggers are chasing the females and not watching me. I left the damaged cushion out as bait and a few peanuts. Good luck, I'm looking forward the arrival of my ASP 20. GBGUNNER 

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

I got mine out the other night to sight it in. I was at 20 yrds indoors but around 40 degrees (not heated in the shed). I could see my breath between shots. Anyway, out of the 10 pellet brands that I tried the H&N FTT with the labeled 5.52 head size did the best. The Preditor Polymags were second. I have shot the gun probably 75 times so it still needs lots of breaking in but I feel like I was getting used to the trigger. I haven’t adjusted the trigger at all and it seems heavy.

I was putting the gun in a front sandbag and pulled it into my shoulder kinda hooking the butt hook? with my bottom hand. I was putting the FTT’s in average groups of 1/2”-3/4”. Not great yet but I think they will get better when it’s not so cold. The kicker for me was that my buddy was there and he had never shot the gun before and shot a group where 3 were touching and two were off about an inch to the right. His 8 year old took one shot with me steadying the front and he center punched a bullseye. His 6 year old pulled one within 1/2” of the bullseye. One shot doesn’t tell you much but I can tell you that they were not gripping it firm or pulling it into their shoulder. I will try a looser grip next time I get it out, hopefully when it’s not so cold. 

I have been shooting a beeman R9 @ 12 fpe, and a TX200 FAC rifle for the past year and this thing definitely shows you that it is in a different weight class! Not sure I will get used to the cocking effort of it compared to the other two. It is not obnoxiously hard but it definitely leaves my hand a little sore from breaking it open and then cocking it fully. It is certainly LONG reaching way up there to grab a hold of it too. It doesn’t fit in my gun safe. A great looking gun, I hope you can settle into it and start getting the groups you should. Tyler

I notice that the barrel is kind of hard to break for loading. Not unbearable but harder than other break barrels I have owned.

Do you rest your hand on the forward bag and then place the forearm on top of your hand ?

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

WHAT'S YOUR SECRET ?

My .22 ASP20 has been out for two weeks and won't be back from SIG till tomorrow. That being said, I too was having accuracy issues. From what I remember, a firm grip while holding the gun loosely in my shoulder combined with resting the front of the rifle just ahead of the trigger guard worked best for me. Groups started tightening up as I worked to hold and rest the rifle consistently as just described, in spite of the way too heavy (even after adjustment) trigger pull.

Trigger pull, BTW, is IMHO going to be the limiting factor when it comes to accuracy once each person otherwise optimizes their own hold technique.

Speaking of the trigger, has anyone actually pulled one apart and worked to improve it? Please share what you did and the results if so.

Bet wishes.

The other Mark B.

Glad to hear your two weeks has come to an end Mark ! Did Sig tell you anything about what they found regarding your rifle? 

So your forward bag sounds like it's close to the guns balancing point ? I've been running mine in the forearm screw area. If your front bag is right in front on the front trigger guard screw where do you place your hand not pulling the trigger? 

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Thanks everyone for all your replies. I extensively reviewed all of Tom Gaylord's reviews of the Sig ASP20. Quite interesting too say the least ! I don't think I will ever shoot it as accurately as he has done. An airguns accuracy is only as good a the person pulling the trigger.

What exactly is a "artillery hold" ? Can someone explain it in detail or post links showing it ?

My gun is not performing as good as either the test gun for B.B. or Airgun Depot has. I still maintain that the test gun Airgun Depot used was higher in power than production line guns are. Review the velocity tests Airgun Depot did. They averaged about 900fps with the 12.35gr Sig Wraith alloy pellet. I am getting only 880fps and that is with a SIZED pellet. Unsized I average 850fps. Granted, my Wraith pellets actually weigh 13.2gr on average but Airgun Depot did their testing at 4500 ft above sea level. I'm at 85 ft above sea level. With B.B.'s test rifle he averaged 1062fps with the Sig Crux alloy (about 10gr) pellet. I've weighed them and my tin averages 9.7gr. And yet, I'm only averaging 1030fps. My testing was done with a temperature between 57-62 deg. SIG claims the ratings for the ASP20 were done at 70 degrees. I highly doubt I get a high of 1070fps with a 8 degree increase in temperature! The only member of A.N. that seems to be getting good (rated) velocities with their ASP20 is VETNUTT.

 

[VETTNUT]

my placement on front rest. rear is on a caldwell bag with very little hold.

 

[Other_Mark_B]

WHAT'S YOUR SECRET ?

My .22 ASP20 has been out for two weeks a.....

Speaking of the trigger, has anyone actually pulled one apart and worked to improve it? Please share what you did and the results if so.

Bet wishes.

The other Mark B.

Glad to hear your two weeks has come to an end Mark ! Did Sig tell you anything about what they found regarding your rifle? 

So your forward bag sounds like it's close to the guns balancing point ? I've been running mine in the forearm screw area. If your front bag is right in front on the front trigger guard screw where do you place your hand not pulling the trigger?

RE: Results from SIG

The engineers at SIG believe that the elevation difference accounts for the lower ft/lbs results I was getting.

Basically, they took the gun apart, inspected it, reassembled it, and test fired it.

The gun was just delivered so I need to unbox it and test fire it with 14.5 grain pellets to see what it is doing now that I have it back.

RE: Stock screws.

Note SIG also replaced the stock and trigger guard screws. The replacements included the rear trigger guard screw which is of a new type that is available from SIG for people with serial numbers below 300 or 400 (I don't remember the exact number). Contact SIG customer service for details

RE: Stock screw torque specs

For any who did not get the word, torque specs for the stock screws and forward trigger guard screws are 30 inch pounds. Do not torque or over tighten the rear trigger guard screw.

RE: My free hand. 

I don't do anything with it. It sort of hangs free. My cheek barely touches the stock. I use gravity and my trigger hand to control the rifle. Note that the "bag" I rest the gun on sits on a high dollar rest (not bragging BTW) on which I've set a 4 inch by 6 inch by 2 inch bag filled with high density black sand. Hence, about four inches of the stock (starting just ahead of the trigger guard) sits on the bag.

RE: Trigger job.

Let me repeat an earlier request to others. Has anyone pulled the trigger apart yet to attempt a trigger job?

Finally, - if anyone is interested - there is a 25 meter bench rest match this weekend. I may use the SIG instead of my LGV, if I can get dime size holes at 23 yards (my backyard range) over the next day or so. I'm down to half dollar to quarter size groups from no discernible groups when I first started with the ASP20, so we'll see what happens.

Best wishes (and hoping to hear about trigger work from someone).

The other Mark B.

 

[Other_Mark_B]

Resting the ASP20

I forgot to add that rifle stock sits lightly (that is gravity) on a Protekor rear rest bag.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

my placement on front rest. rear is on a caldwell bag with very little hold.

Interesting, I was resting mine below the forearm screws. Today I did some shooting and did a little better. I rested my forearm about in the middle of SIg Sauer forearm insignia. I will try back a couple inches next time similar to your position. I still have to content with crosshair wobble. Probably because my front bag was on a cushion instead of a firm surface. Do you use a "V" wedge bag for the rifle butt ? I wasn't today and that also contibuted to my shakey hold.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Resting the ASP20

I forgot to add that rifle stock sits lightly (that is gravity) on a Protekor rear rest bag.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

Just behind the pistol grip? 

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

WHAT'S YOUR SECRET ?

My .22 ASP20 has been out for two weeks a.....

Speaking of the trigger, has anyone actually pulled one apart and worked to improve it? Please share what you did and the results if so.

Bet wishes.

The other Mark B.

Glad to hear your two weeks has come to an end Mark ! Did Sig tell you anything about what they found regarding your rifle? 

So your forward bag sounds like it's close to the guns balancing point ? I've been running mine in the forearm screw area. If your front bag is right in front on the front trigger guard screw where do you place your hand not pulling the trigger?

RE: Results from SIG

The engineers at SIG believe that the elevation difference accounts for the lower ft/lbs results I was getting.

Basically, they took the gun apart, inspected it, reassembled it, and test fired it.

The gun was just delivered so I need to unbox it and test fire it with 14.5 grain pellets to see what it is doing now that I have it back.

RE: Stock screws.

Note SIG also replaced the stock and trigger guard screws. The replacements included the rear trigger guard screw which is of a new type that is available from SIG for people with serial numbers below 300 or 400 (I don't remember the exact number). Contact SIG customer service for details

RE: Stock screw torque specs

For any who did not get the word, torque specs for the stock screws and forward trigger guard screws are 30 inch pounds. Do not torque or over tighten the rear trigger guard screw.

RE: My free hand. 

I don't do anything with it. It sort of hangs free. My cheek barely touches the stock. I use gravity and my trigger hand to control the rifle. Note that the "bag" I rest the gun on sits on a high dollar rest (not bragging BTW) on which I've set a 4 inch by 6 inch by 2 inch bag filled with high density black sand. Hence, about four inches of the stock (starting just ahead of the trigger guard) sits on the bag.

RE: Trigger job.

Let me repeat an earlier request to others. Has anyone pulled the trigger apart yet to attempt a trigger job?

Finally, - if anyone is interested - there is a 25 meter bench rest match this weekend. I may use the SIG instead of my LGV, if I can get dime size holes at 23 yards (my backyard range) over the next day or so. I'm down to half dollar to quarter size groups from no discernible groups when I first started with the ASP20, so we'll see what happens.

Best wishes (and hoping to hear about trigger work from someone).

The other Mark B.

Glad to see you have it back Mark !! I kind of thought elevation was at play here. Look forward to your chrony and accuracy tests.

I would have to look again but I think my serial # is 279. I checked the stock after removing the trigger guard to see if the rear trigger screw hole was either stripped or the stock was cracked. No to both. Mine holds pretty tight considering how it functions. The rest of my screws remain tight. I do have a torque wrench that goes from 30-120 inch pounds. Is Sig replacing the front trigger guard screw as well as the rear ?

 

[VETTNUT]

Wayne,

The hold that the other-mark-B is using basically the same as I was describing that I use, except I use a Caldwell rest in front and, like he said, gravity on both front and rear. My placement on the rest is seen above. And yes I use a Caldwell "V" bag on the rear with just enough grip to steady it which is very little.

Don 

 

[Other_Mark_B]

...... Is Sig replacing the front trigger guard screw as well as the rear ?

Just the rear screw as far as I know, but customer service can advise for sure.



BTW: I just unboxed the rifle and read the packing slip. SIG also replaced the piston and seal when they had the rifle. So it appears that they put substantial effort into my customer service request.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.