Strange results using Pelletgage

[bigHUN]

Adjustable Pellet Sizer Stainless Steel .177 .20 .22 & .25

Our Adjustable Pellet sizer in High quality Stainless Steel Body, the picture now Shows the sizer fitted with the two outer Allen screws made of Stainless steel, and a Stainless Steel 3mm (the sizer on the right) thick ejector plate (the sizer on the left). I have added the option of a 4mm...

www.trrobb.com

Trying to figure out how that thing works, especially the heavier pellets are longer trunk/body. Ideal would be size the head only and leave the skirt out or eventually re-shape only.

 

[18.13]

It doesn't resize the skirt unless you have it really cranked down and somewhat straightens the skirt. Kind of like a mold then you push the pellet back out the way it came in

 

[OldSpook]

Here is a discussion of sorting using the pellet rolling method.

Pellet Rolling ~~ Part 1.

There are five parts to this series. They will be linked here at the end of today's editing session: PART ONE PART TWO PART THREE PART FOUR PART FIVE Rifle: HW-98, 0.20 Optic: SWFA 10 Test Pellet: H&N Baracuda at about 688 fps Distance: 25 meters. First I shot five different...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[bigHUN]

I understand the entire process sorting out pellets, but - how much total time I need to fix those me better make them from raw. Looking for a die maker now.

 

[cavedweller]

I've just received Pelletgage in 5.5 few days ago.

Since I have some JSB Exact 15.89 pellets in 5.50, 5.51 and 5.52 I wanted to push them through Pelletgage just to see what exactly is in those few tins of pellets because I wanted to test different subcalibres and how barrel on HW100 would like them. 5.50 and 5.51 are my old stash, bought them probably 3 years ago, 5.52 are brand new.
Started with 5.50 (at least that what's printed on the sticker on the bottom of the tin) and got mostly 5.55! After some 20 pcs started checking if I'm reading the Pelletgage right but that is almost impossible to get wrong. Took some from the 5.52 tin and most really are 5.52. Tried some from 5.51 tin and those are actually 5.53!

Just for sanity check tried some other pellets that I have and most are what it says on the tin, or thereabout but it proves that everything's fine with the Pelletgage. I didn't doubt that in the first place but strange readings threw me of at start.

At least, these 5.50 are very, very consistent. From a small 250 PCS tin, I got 8 in 5.54 and 2 in 5.56, all other are 5.55

What's wrong with these pellets, I have no idea, AFAIK JSB doesn't even produce Exact's in 5.55, at least not on purpose
It was probably just a bad batch, old worn out die, some sort of a glitch in a production line but it just proves that for consistent and repeatable accuracy we have to check and double check everything.

If I would have tested these pellets without checking them first and found out that the barrel on HW100 really likes 5.50 I would probably order 5+ tins (500 PCS ones)
New pellets, presumably really in 5.50 would not shoot so great because there is quite a difference between 5.50 and 5.55. It all depends how pellet fussy the barrel is but difference could be obvious even on shorter ranges.

This is not a rant or anything, just wanted to share my experience in using one more tool that we have on our disposal.
This thing could be a clue for that "one magic tin" of pellets that outperformed any other a person ever shot. Maybe, maybe not, just too many variables

Happy shooting... sizing, lubing, weighing, tuning...

You’re on to something

 

[cavedweller]

Just un update after some test shooting
After gaging for head sizes and weighing different pellets and testing them on a range I've come to conclusion that my barrel preferes 5.53.
5.54 is not bad either just a slight difference which could always be me.
5.52 and smaller and 5.55 and bigger do shoot worse than 5.53 and 5.54

All in all, I'm satisfied that can see the difference and gives me ability to sort pellets in two piles for target shooting and the rest for plinking

Now I need a pelletgage for 4.5mm since I'm buying a new FT rig...
Huh, this rabbit hole goes really deep...

Does this mean you always start with a clean barrel? I would think the more a gun is fired the more build up occurs in the barrel so sloppy pellets begin to group better - yes / no?

 

[Peashooter]

I dont understand why no one have made a automated pellet sorter.
If my geek level was at the level where i could handle Rasberry pi or similar little computers, i would have build my own as i cant really see it being that difficult to do.

I would however not use the multiple hole gauge like pelletgage, i think i would use the tapered slit like other pellet gauges work

If i had something like that, it would be running all day on my kitchen table until all my pellets was sorted.

 

[OldSpook]

An automated sorter could be built fairly easily but engineering, testing and validation would be expensive. The principle used in the yrraH sorting table could be used to sort pellets by volume during production. It would be necessary to develop an automatic feed to a sorting table which allowed a stream of pellets to be fed to the table. There might be problems with keeping the bed of the table clean, etc. At this point slugs are getting all the attention, and rightly, given that the profit margin is in the slugs. Adding the additional cost of building and operating a machine to do that sorting is probably not worth it unless sales of pellets surge.

 

[JCup]

Agree.

I cannot use this pellet gage "calibrated numbers" only as a go-nogo. I measured with a digital caliper and the hole in my interest is - not as engraved.

I know this is an old post, but I developed (in 2015) and produce (thousands) of the Pelletgage. The metal is cut with a diode pumped fiber optic laser with a focused beam. It is made in Germany. It has a granite base - weighs about two and a half tons, costs about $400K.

All the apertures on the gage plates are sampled and checked with class X (+0.001/-0.000 mm) pin gages. My pin gage sets (25 pins) have incremental steps of 0.0025 mm (0.0001 in). I guarantee all the apertures in every Pelletgage to be within 0.0025mm of nominal. Each gage plate is engraved with a lot number, and I track all of these lots, since 2015.

This laser is a completely different machine than typical sheet metal lasers like Amada. Far more precise, with max 2 uM axial positioning/repitition across a 1 meter cutting span - more than 15X the Pelletgage pattern. The beam width (equivalent to the kerf in cutting) is 20 uM (0.0008 in).

The metal used for Pelletgage is type 304 SS, hot rolled, cold rolled, and annealed. It has a refined grain structure < 0.3 microns. I personally hand break the edges of the apertures, top and bottom, with a 60 degree chamfer tool. It is very labor intensive to do this, but theis helps to avoid the edges of the apertures cutting into the lead when using a Pelletgage.

Good quality (Mitutoyo) 6 inch calipers are rated as +/- 0.001 inch - that's 0,025 mm. Checking the diameter of Pelletgage apertures with calipers will NOT give you any kind of accuracy, ignoring the fact that your caliper jaws are not sharp enough to fit the ID curvature of the apertures.

The link below is what you'd need to check Pelletgage apertures. I have sets, and can cover spans from 4.3 to 9.1 mm.

I also point out, when using calipers to check the OD of a pellet, you are getting a measure of one chord across the diameter (which varies as the pellet in not perfectly round), and this means you'd need to do this dozens of times with an instrument much more precise than calipers, and then take an average to get the same effect as the simple go/no-go use of a Pelletgage. Pelletgage apertures are very close to being perfectly round, and this is useful in finding pellets that may not be. Even an optical comparator is not as accurate as the Pelletgage.

DELTRONIC - PPM25 Plug Gage Sets (Metric) - 25 Gages in .0025mm Steps | Judge Tool & Gage

Shop DELTRONIC - PPM25 Plug Gage Sets (Metric) - 25 Gages in .0025mm Steps from Judge Tool &amp Gage, trusted by the world's leading manufacturers, engineers, & designers.

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[Ranchibi]

I own a .22 PelletGagd and it is very accurate. The most consistent ammo I have found so far is NSA slugs, very very consistent sizes/diameters.

 

[beerthief]

If i find that my barrel likes 5.55 the absolut best i then sort for 5.55 till i have 1000 and save those for special shooting like a 10 meter target @ 50 yards.

 

[JimD]

I only have a 177 pellet gauge but it seems to work fine for me. I got it because I had a tin of Crosman 10.5 grain that shot great from my P35-177 so I bought a couple more and they shot poorly. The pellet gauge told me why. The few I had left of the first tin were pretty consistent and consistent with H&Ns that the gun also liked. The two new tins were all over the map. I sorted a whole tin and got pellets of every size on the gauge. No wonder they shot poorly.

I found the H&N pellets to be much more consistent, especially the "match" ones but they were not the head size on the tin. If the tin said .450 they would be smaller than if the tin said .452 but both might be a couple thousandths bigger than the tin numbers. I bought additional tins of the sizes the gun liked and they were consistent with earlier tins from a head size and shooting standpoint. I tried a tin of JSB 10.3s and they shot OK but worse than the H&N match and I did not run them through the pellet gauge. They chamber loose, however.

With the Crosmans I tried shooting groups with the various head sizes and didn't find any that shot well. My conclusion is that a tin of pellets with inconsistent head size are probably not very well made and therefore don't tend to shoot well. But that conclusion might get changed by future experiences.

While I have not run JSBs through my pellet gauge to sort for head size I have measured the weight of them in several calibers and found them surprisingly inconsistent given their reputation. Only one of my guns prefers them to H&Ns but I think they are well made pellets. But I think they get over hyped.

I don't see the logic in trusting the label on a tin of pellets if it is different from a precision measurement tool. Seems to me you trust the tool. I like the pellets to be consistent with each other but it doesn't matter much to me if the pellet gauge says they are 4.52 and the tin says they are 4.50. But I want the next tin to also be 4.52. My guns don't seem to care an awful lot about head size but they do have their preferences.