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Strange developments in RAW after takeover by Airforce

mubhaur

Member
Nov 8, 2015
1,434
27
Karachi, Pakistan
    I have two identical RAW HM1000X .25 60 ftlb Poly barrel version. Both are made by Martin just before takeover by Airforce.

    Now I thought that I should convert one of these in to .22 caliber optimizing for 25 grain redesigned.

    I send the e mail to Martin and he advised me that after taken over by Airforce each barrel is not tested at 100 yards. If I need the barrel to be tested, there will be an extra fee of $50.

    It appears that for new RAW guns we cant trust accuracy until we know that 50$ extra have been paid for testing. This is not good.

    Further on the technical side, I asked him if I can machine a BSA barrel and install in it, Martin replied that RAW uses special machines to obtain desired performance .

    Further I am advised that Martin will no more be available on phone. He can be contacted through e mail only.

    Please comment on all above matters.



    Regards,

    Umair Bhaur

    from

    Pakistan
     

    weatherby

    Member
    Jun 5, 2015
    582
    38
    --, Belgium
      It is not a problem at all to fit a barrel of any other brand in the RAW guns, I did it several times.

      Martin means the tp is "oval" but this is no problem at all if you use a milling machine instead of a drill press.

      I make my .25 tp's always in a key way shape, like 5.5mm wide and 7mm long.

      Don't be held back because of some cautious advice, it is not rocket science.

      A RAW barrel is even easier to manufacture because it does not have a internal o-ring groove like most other airguns use.

      Good luck!

      Gijs
       

      spysir

      Member
      Apr 1, 2015
      3,547
      71
      WA, United States
        !00 yard testing! For $100.00, very good deal. IF you just added it in the original price you'd not blink. It does take a LOT of time to shoot a few good outdoor 100 yard groups an exactly how many other manufacturers offer 100 yard testing at all?

        Used to be buy a USFT and it should shoot well, want it tested $100.00 extra, that was 2007 and most thought it a deal ( esp on replacement barrels) but that was wind tunnel testing which one would think takes much less ( and more predictable) time.

        Martin had to do something to egt off the phone. Too professional not to talk and way too busy to talk but to polity professional. Just TOO many people "needing " to ask, fill pressure? Scuba tank? 1+ hr over 7 calls, never heard from again. 5 calls for an actual direct sale but it would have been a dead stock off the shelf model except they wanted a color that caused one rilfe to sit out of Que for 9 weeks waiting on stcok material, then a special run for that stock, .......

        I know someone with a 100 yard test target that came with there RAW signed & dated by a National Champion. He framed it and smiles at it like it's an airgun all by it's self.

        Times change.

        Soon we will have much more bountiful access to RAW rifles. ( He gets to run the batch's start to finish w/out interrupting business) They'll all be RAW QC and tested ( exactly how/muc/distance/? but a utility Martin can take pride in). And IF you think you actually shoot better than 99% of the shooters in the world , or it just pleases you to know exactly what your rifle CAN do ( some shooter other than I ) . $100.00 - and no time limit, weather & all- seems a value, when spending such an amount on such necessity as an airgun.



        John



        AA "XTRA FAC" all ran oval transfer ports-23.5fpe in .177 stock- , my QB does also..




         
        To go back to the original poster's question. Drill a round hole to the width of the oval slot. You can then carefully, and slowly use abrasives and files to work the round hole to the ideal (oval/slotted) shape. Don't forget to put a radius (as versus a square edge) on the inside the bore edge of the oval hole when you are done. Airflow hates a sudden square edge when it is emerging from pressure, and causes disruptive turbulent flow. It also dislikes a sudden change in impedance as well, and can create a reflected signal which works against flow momentarily.
         

        rapidair

        Member
        Manufacturer
        May 1, 2018
        48
        1
        Tennessee, United States
          We have not changed any test procedures on RAW guns since the takeover by AirForce. Every rifle is tested at 75 to 100 yards (depending on caliber and application) before it leaves the factory. The original poster wanted to buy a spare barrel and wanted the spare barrel installed in a gun here and test fired before it was sent out. We can do this but it’s not part of the cost of a spare barrel. There is a charge. We thought we were being responsive in offering a service not offered by any company we are aware of and do not understand why there seems to be a need to skew the facts.
           

          fe7565

          Member
          Oct 13, 2015
          1,667
          46
          VA, United States
            We have not changed any test procedures on RAW guns since the takeover by AirForce. Every rifle is tested at 75 to 100 yards (depending on caliber and application) before it leaves the factory. The original poster wanted to buy a spare barrel and wanted the spare barrel installed in a gun here and test fired before it was sent out. We can do this but it’s not part of the cost of a spare barrel. There is a charge. We thought we were being responsive in offering a service not offered by any company we are aware of and do not understand why there seems to be a need to skew the facts.

            So it was a special situation with OP. Sounds fair and reasonable to me. 
             

            mubhaur

            Member
            Nov 8, 2015
            1,434
            27
            Karachi, Pakistan
              We have not changed any test procedures on RAW guns since the takeover by AirForce. Every rifle is tested at 75 to 100 yards (depending on caliber and application) before it leaves the factory. The original poster wanted to buy a spare barrel and wanted the spare barrel installed in a gun here and test fired before it was sent out. We can do this but it’s not part of the cost of a spare barrel. There is a charge. We thought we were being responsive in offering a service not offered by any company we are aware of and do not understand why there seems to be a need to skew the facts.

              Thank you Martin,

              Thanks for clarification. 

              I got your point. Yes I took it as I posted it. There is no ill intention behind it. This is right that I have been concerned about RAW post your agreement with Airforce.

              Neither do I know the details of the agreement but my love for RAW raises many suspicions. 

              When you wrote to me that now you will charge test fee, I can copy past your mail here but shall not do it, it gave the impression that it was not happening in the past.

              During all my deals with you your cooperation has been unprecedented. 

              Also the guns that you sent me are great shooters.

              I apologise if anything written by me is wrong. But believe me that it was misunderstanding that you just clarified in your response now.

              Yes I hope to place an order for extra barrel and want you to test it at 100 yards and I agree to pay the fee that you have communicated to me.

              No issues at all.

              You know that I am in that part of the world from where it is extremely difficult to send back such items if they don't perform. Also we have to pay a big premium price to get things here.

              I always read in the past that you had always been available on phone but when I wanted to discuss all the things on phone I was informed that only e mails now.

              I appreciate your clarification on this post. I correct my understanding. I also apologise for anything I misunderstood and mentioned in the post.

              I always appreciate your great work and support.

              Thank you RAW and thank you Martin.

              Regards, 



              Umair Bhaur 
               
              • Like
              Reactions: Macros
              Well then, maybe you can help me too. In 2015 I bought a HM 1000X in 25 cal and brought it here to NZ. Serial # 831 I have enjoyed shooting it, but it now has sat in storage due to a slight air leak. I believe it's in one of three places, the bottle, the intake fitting or in the gauge and intake manifold which I believe has two o-rings. My first step was to contact Airforce, on the only site I could find, asking them for the actual correct catalog designated numbers of these O-rings. We have a very good supplier of o-rings about ten minutes from here. I had no reply. Can you please help me to get this problem remedied, it's been out of action for near on 3 years now. Thank you for your help. Brian
               
              well with rapidairs reply I feel like that Is a quite reasonable price and point. it's not like you can just test a barrel it had to be installed onto an air rifl sighted adjusted tested and then more adjustments potentially and then if it works removed cleaned packaged and shipped. extra work extra money

              Bingo... even then that is no guarantee how the barrel shot on one gun at the factory will be duplicated on every other gun. I sure wouldn't want to guarantee that. I guess you would know if there was something wrong with the barrel of anything like that but I wouldn't go much further than that. 

              Guess it is not cost effective for the poster to send the gun in and have them pick out a barrel, install it on his gun, then test the new barrel on his gun.

              As far as I know the RAW factory accuracy testing is for new complete guns not parts. I cannot believe Martin would install the barrel on a factory gun then using his ammo shoot test groups, then clean it up for shipping all over again for $50. Ask AZ how much he wants to do that and I bet he won't even consider it for $50 just to sell a barrel. They both have much more profitable things to do for that hour plus. 
               
              I would mix up soapy water and air up the rifle check around the regulator which is were the bottle screws into find the leak with the soapy water degas the ride by removing bottle best way to separate it is to spin the bottle off about a turn and dry fire the rifle you should see the gauge drop in pressure down to about 50 bar after a couple shots and either dry fire again which runs risk of bending the valve stem I usually take the risk and dry fire my 25 with out a problem with only 50 bar left and then spin off the bottle the rest of the way which leaves the bottle pressurized and you don't wreck the bottle oring this way the piece housing the gauge and fill nozzle slides off the regulator there are 2 orings sealing it to the regulator once you pull it off a small spring and seal will fall out of fill nozzle which seals that if you find the leak between bottle and regulator then it could be bottle oring r. Regulator turns out with wrench once ever thing is degassed also a oring between the regulator and the block if you don't find a leak any where and is coming out end of the barrel then it gets a little more difficult but I would remove all those orings and take them with you to the oring place and match up the sizes with someone s help from the store otherwise if coming out the barrel it could the poppet or orings on the valve not hard to fix just more to take apart