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N/A Springer vs Pumper

I have always been fascinated with pumpers . as a kid all i had was a springer. Just in the last year or so i have bought two pumpers , a 1974 Sheridan .20 blue streak and a Benjamin Sheridan Silver Streak .177 . wonderful guns . I do not mind the pumping at all i use the time to read the wind or just gaze out at the scenery as i live on a cliff and can see over the lake and beyond .
 
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The initial comparison was size and weight. Not power. What weight “springer with scope“ would it take to achieve 16.39
My 20 cal R9 makes 16 fpe and weighs a hair over 9 lbs with a big heavy 3-9 Airmax. It'd be well under 9 lbs with the much lighter non AO scope I'd use for hunting. The R9 is a full size gun.

Personally I have several 6-7lb, more compact, good powder burners I would take hunting if the Hw50 wasn't enough gun. Typically the Hw50 is fine for grey squirrels inside of 40 yards.
 
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My 20 cal R9 makes 16 fpe and weighs a hair over 9 lbs with a big heavy 3-9 Airmax. It'd be well under 9 lbs with the much lighter non AO scope I'd use for hunting. The R9 is not a full size gun.

Personally I have several 6-7lb, more compact, good powder burners I would take hunting if the Hw50 wasn't enough gun. Typically the Hw50 is fine for grey squirrels inside of 40 yards.
nice to see logical thinking .
 
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My Benjamin 392PA can barely hit the target box much less bullseyes..
My HW 30s is in .20 cal, and I do have four Sheridans, but none with scopes. So thats not a fair comparison.
The HW 30, doesn't come close to the Sheridans power. The HW falls between 3 and 4 strokes, of the Sheridans power, and a full load is 8 strokes.
This is a subject deer to my heart and I will explore it more in the future though.
Check your muzzle on your 392 for paint, I have had 2 of them that could not hit the ground if you were trying too. They both have black paint sprayed 3 inches up the barrel. Once the paint was removed they shot considerably better,
 
Mr. Ron. The R9/HW95 is absolutely my favorite Springer. The cream of the crop. I also love my HW98.
Actually there's a typo in my statement. I meant that the R9 is a full size gun. Not that it's important.

The 95 family guns are my favorite Weihrauch series. Probably why I have four of them. One in 177 two in 20 and one in 22. IMO the gun does all three calibers very well. It's a very versatile platform that with little work can make 12 - 17 fpe nicely, depending on caliber. My 15 fpe 177 is a 900 FPS Lazer and still my most accurate break barrel at 50 yards. The 20s and 22 are set to 16 FPE and they're all just a joy to shoot. If there ever was a perfect gun for 20 caliber it's the 95 family. It's why I have the 20 R9 and 98.
 
Actually there's a typo in my statement. I meant that the R9 is a full size gun. Not that it's important.

The 95 family guns are my favorite Weihrauch series. Probably why I have four of them. One in 177 two in 20 and one in 22. IMO the gun does all three calibers very well. It's a very versatile platform that with little work can make 12 - 17 fpe nicely, depending on caliber. My 15 fpe 177 is a 900 FPS Lazer and still my most accurate break barrel at 50 yards. The 20s and 22 are set to 16 FPE and they're all just a joy to shoot. If there ever was a perfect gun for 20 caliber it's the 95 family. It's why I have the 20 R9 and 98.
My 98 and 95 are both in 22 caliber. The 95 is set up with a diopter the 98 with a scope. Decades ago when the R9 first came out, I got one in 20 caliber. I am sorry I ever let it go. Incredibly accurate. But both my 22’s are also.
 
I have 3 pumpers; Dragonfly2 in .22, Crosman 140 in .22, and Blue Streak in .20. I havnt shot the 140 or Streak more that 10x each, but Ive shot the Dragonfly 10,000x! I got interested in the Dragonfly and tinkering with it, power testing, pellet testing, etc... That is the gun that got me back into airguns as an adult. The 140 & Streak sadly dont get much interest mainly because my eyes require a scope.

My springers R7 & Daisy(Gamo) 1000 in .177; XS46U &Gamo HXP in .22 are all scoped. The XS46U gets shot the least mainly because its a pain for me to load (arthritis).
Lately, I shoot the Daisy and big Gamo the most, mainly because I like 40 &50yd plinking.

As a kid, it was a Daisy880, so I have a love for pumpers. Shot a springer for the first time 2yrs ago.

Pumper Pros: Variable power Pumper Cons: Pump, pump, pump...
POWER! Complexity (valves,pump,hammer...)
Zero recoil
Quiet (with a moderator)
Amazing accuracy
Long range w/ max pumps
Complexity (I like machines)
Easy accuracy

Springer Pros: Simplicity Springer Cons: Cocking effort (magnums)
More shots vs pumper vs time Hold sensitive (springer)
POWER! (Magnums) Inconsistent accuracy (this is my fault, not the gun) Easy to use Learning curve for accuracy

If I see a pest a ways out and I have to make the long shot count, Im grabbing the Dragonfly.
If I have a few hours to kill, I'm grabbing the Daisy 1000. 12fpe, accurate, easy to cock.
If I want to do some 40-50yd plinking, I'm grabbing the Gamo Magnum. This one is my most accurate break barrel. The gas ram makes it least hold sensitive, even w/26+fpe. If the cocking effort wasn't so much, I probably wouldn't shoot any other gun.
 
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Check your muzzle on your 392 for paint, I have had 2 of them that could not hit the ground if you were trying too. They both have black paint sprayed 3 inches up the barrel. Once the paint was removed they shot considerably better,
Only three inched in? That info helps. I was concerned about getting a paint remover into the gun by swabbing the barrel, but just doing the muzzel would be conciderably easier.
I have already recrowned it.
Check this target out from thirty yards.
20230429_083344.jpg
 
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I tend to favor pumpers but do have a few springers...
20200410_111309.jpg

20200410_111223.jpg

In addition to these, there are several Sheridans, a few more 1377/1322s, and probably a couple more I can't think of.
The Daystate Sportsman is my by-the-door rifle for rock squirrels and gophers. The others I just plink with on occasion. I originally bought the Sharp Ace Target to hunt squirrels and shoot FT with as I could map the trajectory/#pumps so I needed very little sight change to shoot a match. Cooked the inlet valve seal doing 9+ pumps back to back about 20 times trying to practice 50+ yards so that didn't work out as well as hoped.
I guess that my first airguns in 1974 being pumpers might have influenced my preference but I still am fascinated with them. I was part of a short partnership owning a Quigley pumper and can say that there is a LOT of tech still possible with pumper development. I've not owned an Independence but have shot them as well as the China version and feel even more strongly that we could have a REALLY great pumper if someone took the project seriously though I wouldn't consider those 2 in my stable. Cost is what killed most though. Considering it's a pcp with added complexity, keeping the weight and cost down is a problem as well as the pumping effort. I've probably had well over a hundred springers but for some reason, they just don't draw me so now down to around 10.
Also wanted to say what an AMAZING couple of stocks in the OP... just BEAUTIFUL ...
Bob
 
I recently picked up a very nice pumper. A vintage Crosman 140 in .22. I really like it but I'll probably continue to favor my break barrels. It's just easier to cock the gun once. It's really nice to have both so I can shoot something different sometimes.
I love the way you have that 392 set up with the long eye relief scope and the back up peep sights. I got a powder burner rifle set up the same way.
 
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I tend to favor pumpers but do have a few springers...
View attachment 451982
View attachment 451985
In addition to these, there are several Sheridans, a few more 1377/1322s, and probably a couple more I can't think of.
The Daystate Sportsman is my by-the-door rifle for rock squirrels and gophers. The others I just plink with on occasion. I originally bought the Sharp Ace Target to hunt squirrels and shoot FT with as I could map the trajectory/#pumps so I needed very little sight change to shoot a match. Cooked the inlet valve seal doing 9+ pumps back to back about 20 times trying to practice 50+ yards so that didn't work out as well as hoped.
I guess that my first airguns in 1974 being pumpers might have influenced my preference but I still am fascinated with them. I was part of a short partnership owning a Quigley pumper and can say that there is a LOT of tech still possible with pumper development. I've not owned an Independence but have shot them as well as the China version and feel even more strongly that we could have a REALLY great pumper if someone took the project seriously though I wouldn't consider those 2 in my stable. Cost is what killed most though. Considering it's a pcp with added complexity, keeping the weight and cost down is a problem as well as the pumping effort. I've probably had well over a hundred springers but for some reason, they just don't draw me so now down to around 10.
Also wanted to say what an AMAZING couple of stocks in the OP... just BEAUTIFUL ...
Bob
I've never had one in my hands, but there is a new pumper on the market that seems to be well liked. I don't remember the name. (Dragonfly)
The Sheridan is a solid simple design that could stand some factoy upgrades if the old Sheridan Works were still there.
I really can't beleive the quality of the trigger pull, when its only a one piece trgger. Forget all those moving parts, "Keep it Simple Stupid" Lol.
20240317_163508.jpg

A soldered in front, and rear, sight base, as well as scope mounts, would be convenient, and strengthen it.

I personally prefer the fifties pump handles slim design and feel.
20230425_112925.jpg
It could use an extra 1/4", so a rubber butt pad would be nice. That would help keep it planted in my shoulder. It allways seems to slip right when I'm squeezing off a shot.

It would be easy to create and solder a 1/2"x28 thread adapter on the barrel for a moderator.

Okay, Enough dreaming.
👍
 
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I have 3 pumpers; Dragonfly2 in .22, Crosman 140 in .22, and Blue Streak in .20. I havnt shot the 140 or Streak more that 10x each, but Ive shot the Dragonfly 10,000x! I got interested in the Dragonfly and tinkering with it, power testing, pellet testing, etc... That is the gun that got me back into airguns as an adult. The 140 & Streak sadly dont get much interest mainly because my eyes require a scope.

My springers R7 & Daisy(Gamo) 1000 in .177; XS46U &Gamo HXP in .22 are all scoped. The XS46U gets shot the least mainly because its a pain for me to load (arthritis).
Lately, I shoot the Daisy and big Gamo the most, mainly because I like 40 &50yd plinking.

As a kid, it was a Daisy880, so I have a love for pumpers. Shot a springer for the first time 2yrs ago.

Pumper Pros: Variable power Pumper Cons: Pump, pump, pump...
POWER! Complexity (valves,pump,hammer...)
Zero recoil
Quiet (with a moderator)
Amazing accuracy
Long range w/ max pumps
Complexity (I like machines)
Easy accuracy

Springer Pros: Simplicity Springer Cons: Cocking effort (magnums)
More shots vs pumper vs time Hold sensitive (springer)
POWER! (Magnums) Inconsistent accuracy (this is my fault, not the gun) Easy to use Learning curve for accuracy

If I see a pest a ways out and I have to make the long shot count, Im grabbing the Dragonfly.
If I have a few hours to kill, I'm grabbing the Daisy 1000. 12fpe, accurate, easy to cock.
If I want to do some 40-50yd plinking, I'm grabbing the Gamo Magnum. This one is my most accurate break barrel. The gas ram makes it least hold sensitive, even w/26+fpe. If the cocking effort wasn't so much, I probably wouldn't shoot any other gun.
Here's the thing that I keep wondering about the Dragonfly. Every review I read or watch on it remarks about how easy the pumping is and that it doesn't get significantly harder with additional pumps. So why the heck didn't they increase the cocking effort a little and create a rifle that can generate it's full power with less than 15 pumps? It just seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
Here's the thing that I keep wondering about the Dragonfly. Every review I read or watch on it remarks about how easy the pumping is and that it doesn't get significantly harder with additional pumps. So why the heck didn't they increase the cocking effort a little and create a rifle that can generate it's full power with less than 15 pumps? It just seems like a no-brainer to me.
One of the changes I made to my Dragonfly did just what you suggested here.
In stock form, anything over 10 pumps doesnt net much more fps, but the gun responds well to a few easy modifications. The pump head is threaded & adjustable. By turning it out some, the compression goes up quite a bit; pumping effort went up too, but still pumps easier than any other pumper I ever shot. I opened up the transfer port, block, barrel, valve,,, 20fpe @20pumps. With a 21g pellet, it gets almost 17fpe @ 10pumps. I stay at 7-8pumps for 30-40yd plinking.
 
I've never had one in my hands, but there is a new pumper on the market that seems to be well liked. I don't remember the name. (Dragonfly)
The Sheridan is a solid simple design that could stand some factoy upgrades if the old Sheridan Works were still there.
I really can't beleive the quality of the trigger pull, when its only a one piece trgger. Forget all those moving parts, "Keep it Simple Stupid" Lol.
View attachment 452030
A soldered in front, and rear, sight base, as well as scope mounts, would be convenient, and strengthen it.

I personally prefer the fifties pump handles slim design and feel.
View attachment 452031It could use an extra 1/4", so a rubber butt pad would be nice. That would help keep it planted in my shoulder. It allways seems to slip right when I'm squeezing off a shot.

It would be easy to create and solder a 1/2"x28 thread adapter on the barrel for a moderator.

Okay, Enough dreaming.
👍
I agree with you on the rubber, but felt more than a 1/4 in was needed with my build. Am just under 6ft, with fairly long arms.
1000001687.jpg