Keep hearing about the 22 cal pumpers and springers outshooting 22rf at 50 yards and less. However, when I research them I find prices >$500. Is there a QUALITY accurate pumper or springer for < $300? Not sold on a "break barrel" as I can't see how that system is accurate.
N/A Springer/Pumper and the Rabbit Hole
- Thread starter WNYBill
- Start date
I hope you get some great recommendations. Personally I find you get what you pay for and used or even vintage is a great way to go. Pump,pump,pump,pump, pump,pump,pump,pump,pump, shoot and start over and a quality break barrel starts to look real good. Most of us here have no problem with quality break barrels shooting to POA.
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You could try a Crosman 362, or the new crosman 3622 with a hand pump. Unfortunately air guns are not the place to go to save money, you will spend as much and probably more on an air rifle than you would on the 22LR.
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Break barrell rifles a very accurate once you figure out the right way to shoot them. There's a learning curve, but we'll worth it. Proper hold, the right pellets and practice. I like to call it PPP
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Whether or not you can see it, they absolutely are. Plenty of break barrels out there that will keep pace with a fixed barrel springer all day. I have some from the 60s and 70s that still can after 60yrs. $300 is pushing it though. You may be able to find a second hand HW95 for close to that price
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Taken lots of small game and pest birds with break barrels , side and under levers/ springers and rammers. They all are wonderful tools within their designed limits.
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My own experience is you're going to pay more to get good accuracy from an airgun. For around $600 you should be able to get a CZ457 rimfire and that will smoke any air rifle at that price point.
There are lots of accurate airguns out there, but in general rimfires are going to deliver slightly better accuracy and do it for less money.
When it comes to spring guns, if you want accuracy, go for reputable, (HW, Air Arms, Diana), guns and less than 20 fpe. Powerful springers are more difficult to shoot accurately. If a springer is able to consistently shoot less than an inch at 50 yards, then I figure it's shooting pretty well.
When it comes to PCP's, they're a lot more comparable to rimfires in terms of accuracy. Just more expensive.
There are lots of accurate airguns out there, but in general rimfires are going to deliver slightly better accuracy and do it for less money.
When it comes to spring guns, if you want accuracy, go for reputable, (HW, Air Arms, Diana), guns and less than 20 fpe. Powerful springers are more difficult to shoot accurately. If a springer is able to consistently shoot less than an inch at 50 yards, then I figure it's shooting pretty well.
When it comes to PCP's, they're a lot more comparable to rimfires in terms of accuracy. Just more expensive.
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"Smoke" is a bit of an exaggeration. I've shot quite a few of 457s in my life and from the factory they're barely better than a comparably priced springer at springer appropriate ranges. Shoot, for the money an HW or Diana both come with a better trigger. A 457 is certainly easier to shoot than either though. Thats just the nature of springers. A good springer shooter can absolutely keep up with one though. Cameron Kerndt beat out 50ish PCPs with a springer in Africa last year. Of the 7 that scored higher, most were within a few points and even the top PCP guy only beat him by 7 points total. Springers take practice but when you get it down they can do some pretty amazing things.
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One of the other issues is where you are shooting. I can shoot a springer or a pumper in my back yard but not a 22 rimfire unless I spring for a silencer. Shooting rats and pigeons around buildings and equipment are not good places for a firearm. I prefer hunting squirrels with an air rifle or shotgun as uncomfortable shooting a firearm in the air due to the extreme range of the bullet. A 22 rimfire is just a different tool altogether than an air rifle with little overlap of purpose unless you are out in the country.
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I totally agree, however the OP was asking about how low end airguns compare accuracy wise with rimfires and I’d have to say that in my experience they don’t measure up. A higher end springer like an HW97 will do a reasonable job, but a similarly priced bolt action rimfire will still do better.
PCPs are quite a bit closer in terms of accuracy, but once you factor in the price of the charging apparatus and a moderator they will cost significantly more. You’re not going to get a PCP all set up and ready to go for the same price as a rimfire.
I personally prefer airguns for most of my own shooting simply because they are much better suited to shooting in suburban and exurban settings where the noise, penetration and range of rimfires is not an advantage.
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Depends on many factors. Do you want to scope it? If so, most pumpers are out. Do you mind some weight? If so, most springers are out. Still you would have options. You really need to more specific.
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You would be better off with a quality springer than a pumper if chasing accuracy to 50 yards, in my opinion. Now as far as being able to outshoot a rimfire at distances of out to 50 yards... Yes and No, depending on a few factors.
If you take your average rf 22 and feed it the cheapest bulk ammo you can get your hands on or an assortment of whatever (you know, all the left over of cheap bulk ammo you dumped into a zip-lock baggie to keep it handy, Lol) and compare it to a well sorted quality springer with it's favorite pellets, then yes the springer will out shoot the rimfire. If you take an average cheap rimfire (figure $200 +/- $100 or so) and feed it lot-sorted match ammo the barrel likes and put it up against a well sorted quality springer, it might be a toss up but the favor might be to the rimfire if any noticeable wind is present. Now if you compare a custom rimfire (big money) with lot-sorted match ammo the barrel likes and compare to a quality springer, the rimfire wins. (I'm also considering rimfire barrel heating in these comparisons, some start throwing fliers as they heat up)
Not to keen on a break barrel? Then a fixed barrel under or side lever is the answer. Looking for $300 or so? You'll have to buy pre-owned and search out deals. Shipping is a deal-breaker more often than not, as it costs at least $80 for your average joe to ship from the ups store. Not to mention $20 for a box and the $15 for bubble wrap/packing materials...
Oh yeah, how experienced are you with springers? There's a bit of a learning curve and results aren't guaranteed. Even if you are proficient with a springer there will be days you struggle to print decent groups (due to wind, atmospheric conditions, bodily issues like stiff muscles/joints and etc.). I've neglected pumpers here, I know. I've had a few decently accurate pumpers, as in minute of critter but chances of getting a superbly accurate pumper is rare in my experience. I had a crazy accurate Daisy 880 once, but was lower on the power spectrum. Maybe start with an 880, do the barrel tape mod and buy a bunch of pellet samples to see what results you get? They're fairly inexpensive ($60 or so) and a halfway decent optic should yield hours of fun.
If you take your average rf 22 and feed it the cheapest bulk ammo you can get your hands on or an assortment of whatever (you know, all the left over of cheap bulk ammo you dumped into a zip-lock baggie to keep it handy, Lol) and compare it to a well sorted quality springer with it's favorite pellets, then yes the springer will out shoot the rimfire. If you take an average cheap rimfire (figure $200 +/- $100 or so) and feed it lot-sorted match ammo the barrel likes and put it up against a well sorted quality springer, it might be a toss up but the favor might be to the rimfire if any noticeable wind is present. Now if you compare a custom rimfire (big money) with lot-sorted match ammo the barrel likes and compare to a quality springer, the rimfire wins. (I'm also considering rimfire barrel heating in these comparisons, some start throwing fliers as they heat up)
Not to keen on a break barrel? Then a fixed barrel under or side lever is the answer. Looking for $300 or so? You'll have to buy pre-owned and search out deals. Shipping is a deal-breaker more often than not, as it costs at least $80 for your average joe to ship from the ups store. Not to mention $20 for a box and the $15 for bubble wrap/packing materials...
Oh yeah, how experienced are you with springers? There's a bit of a learning curve and results aren't guaranteed. Even if you are proficient with a springer there will be days you struggle to print decent groups (due to wind, atmospheric conditions, bodily issues like stiff muscles/joints and etc.). I've neglected pumpers here, I know. I've had a few decently accurate pumpers, as in minute of critter but chances of getting a superbly accurate pumper is rare in my experience. I had a crazy accurate Daisy 880 once, but was lower on the power spectrum. Maybe start with an 880, do the barrel tape mod and buy a bunch of pellet samples to see what results you get? They're fairly inexpensive ($60 or so) and a halfway decent optic should yield hours of fun.
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what do you want to do with it? Is this to be a hunting rifle, or are you poking holes in cans and paper?
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Thank you for all the comments. I've decided to stay with the pcp's and go down another rabbit hole.....DRONES!
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Is this a complete 180...or will you be accurately shooting stuff at 50yards with a sub 300$ drone?
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It sounds like he's already got a PCP or two, so he's just decided to hold off on the springers indefinitely.
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One thing I will say in defense of springers is that IMO they are hands down the best plinking guns you can own. You just grab your gun and your pellets and shoot until you get bored or rained out. No hearing protection, charging equipment or actual gun ranges needed. All you really need is a safe place to shoot one and an absence of Karens.
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I know. There is a ton of info available...I kind of believe he had decided that before even posting this inquiry.
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It never hurts to ask questions. More often than not others might have similar inquiries, so responding to posts like this is often helpful to more than one individual. Being honest about different platforms being used along with the types of projectiles goes a long way in assisting folks trying to figure things out. Please remain kind and respectful to our fellow air-gunners, we are all part of one community.
Some of my final thoughts on this thread (for entertainment, mostly redundant ramblings). Not necessarily directed to the OP or anyone in general...
Pellets are fantastic and horrible projectiles all at the same time. Compared to even 22lr, most pellets have a horrible BC. Being drag stabilized helps with short range accuracy and somewhat makes pellets safer projectiles. In case a shot ever misses its mark, I'm more comfortable knowing a pellet will drastically lose energy as it travels downrange, even though shots are taken in a safe and controlled environment. Can't say the same for bullets, slugs or other conicals. For the same reasons bullets, slugs and conicals retain energy/velocity over further distances they also handle wind or random gusts much better. On days when the air is dead calm pellets are capable of amazing accuracy, otherwise you're better off with a different projectile or just accepting reality.
Springers can be difficult to shoot, especially if over sprung. You're using a piston to rapidly compress air, there's going to be several movements before the pellet even leaves the bore. I'm not even going to get into possible harmonic issues that can occur caused by internals, lubes or barrel accessories/attachments. Most break barrels have a solid and repeatable/consistent lock up, generally this isn't an issue. I prefer fixed barrels myself, but more for their added weight contributing to a more stable platform while shooting from a bench. Spring guns equipped with a sledge system, otherwise known as "recoilless" springers help a bunch in the "consistency of accuracy" department. My experience with a couple Diana 54's has proven them to be easier to shoot accurately on a more consistent basis, but from a mechanical standpoint I don't consider them more accurate than any other quality springer. When pushing the range beyond 80 yards you'll definitely see a difference between a springer, pcp and powder-burner. Even at 50 yards I don't believe I've shot better than 1MOA with any airgun, and the few times I've shot roughly half inch groups at 50y, I attribute those to luck rather than skill. On average I figure if getting about 1" give or take a .25" (@ 50y) I'm having an excellent day.
Lastly, there's cost. As mentioned previously, springers don't need support equipment to function which helps in some regards. At the same time, they can be awfully expensive for the higher tier options. Personally, I like the better fit & finish, triggers and parts availability of higher tier springers... BUT I've had a few budget friendly spring/gas piston rifles that delivered surprising results. I suppose this depends on getting a good example of a certain model. Believe it or not, I have a Gamo that can hang with Diana and Weirauch rifles in terms of accuracy. Yes, the fit and finish, materials used and trigger all leave some to be desired but if you hold your tongue just right, it'll print some very respectable groups. At half the cost of top tier options there are some compromises and support is lacking (aside from exchanges during the warrantee period) but if you know this going in and can repair yourself, it's not that bad. Same could be said for Crosman, Benjamin, Hatsan and similar options, just know these aren't 'match grade' offerings and might need some TLC to obtain their full potential. Then again, what percentage of Weirauch's are just shot in factory form? Mostly it seems folks get them, check for function and then tear them down for a rebuild. Kind of silly for a $400 to $600+ pellet gun if you ask me. (Yeah, I know they're pretty sweet after a tune, but I'll personally shoot them until something fails, unless detuning for specific needs)
A few questions I have, who all is shooting pumpers at 50 yards? (or better)... On a regular basis? What results are you getting? Have you developed Pop-eye arms? What model are you using to do so?
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.
Some of my final thoughts on this thread (for entertainment, mostly redundant ramblings). Not necessarily directed to the OP or anyone in general...
Pellets are fantastic and horrible projectiles all at the same time. Compared to even 22lr, most pellets have a horrible BC. Being drag stabilized helps with short range accuracy and somewhat makes pellets safer projectiles. In case a shot ever misses its mark, I'm more comfortable knowing a pellet will drastically lose energy as it travels downrange, even though shots are taken in a safe and controlled environment. Can't say the same for bullets, slugs or other conicals. For the same reasons bullets, slugs and conicals retain energy/velocity over further distances they also handle wind or random gusts much better. On days when the air is dead calm pellets are capable of amazing accuracy, otherwise you're better off with a different projectile or just accepting reality.
Springers can be difficult to shoot, especially if over sprung. You're using a piston to rapidly compress air, there's going to be several movements before the pellet even leaves the bore. I'm not even going to get into possible harmonic issues that can occur caused by internals, lubes or barrel accessories/attachments. Most break barrels have a solid and repeatable/consistent lock up, generally this isn't an issue. I prefer fixed barrels myself, but more for their added weight contributing to a more stable platform while shooting from a bench. Spring guns equipped with a sledge system, otherwise known as "recoilless" springers help a bunch in the "consistency of accuracy" department. My experience with a couple Diana 54's has proven them to be easier to shoot accurately on a more consistent basis, but from a mechanical standpoint I don't consider them more accurate than any other quality springer. When pushing the range beyond 80 yards you'll definitely see a difference between a springer, pcp and powder-burner. Even at 50 yards I don't believe I've shot better than 1MOA with any airgun, and the few times I've shot roughly half inch groups at 50y, I attribute those to luck rather than skill. On average I figure if getting about 1" give or take a .25" (@ 50y) I'm having an excellent day.
Lastly, there's cost. As mentioned previously, springers don't need support equipment to function which helps in some regards. At the same time, they can be awfully expensive for the higher tier options. Personally, I like the better fit & finish, triggers and parts availability of higher tier springers... BUT I've had a few budget friendly spring/gas piston rifles that delivered surprising results. I suppose this depends on getting a good example of a certain model. Believe it or not, I have a Gamo that can hang with Diana and Weirauch rifles in terms of accuracy. Yes, the fit and finish, materials used and trigger all leave some to be desired but if you hold your tongue just right, it'll print some very respectable groups. At half the cost of top tier options there are some compromises and support is lacking (aside from exchanges during the warrantee period) but if you know this going in and can repair yourself, it's not that bad. Same could be said for Crosman, Benjamin, Hatsan and similar options, just know these aren't 'match grade' offerings and might need some TLC to obtain their full potential. Then again, what percentage of Weirauch's are just shot in factory form? Mostly it seems folks get them, check for function and then tear them down for a rebuild. Kind of silly for a $400 to $600+ pellet gun if you ask me. (Yeah, I know they're pretty sweet after a tune, but I'll personally shoot them until something fails, unless detuning for specific needs)
A few questions I have, who all is shooting pumpers at 50 yards? (or better)... On a regular basis? What results are you getting? Have you developed Pop-eye arms? What model are you using to do so?
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.
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I don't mind tearing down a less expensive rifle for a basic lube and tune. I recently did it with 1 at just barely over 200 new cost. I can do the work myself though, and having worked as some form of mechanic for a big part of my life its work I enjoy doing it to get the most out of something. Knowing what is possible for those willing to put in some time and effort I wouldn't hesitate to explore the budget end of the spectrum for those with some reasonable mechanical inclination. At the sub 300 range that would put a lot of rifles in the acceptable class for shooting with good accuracy at range...once you put in the time to learn how to do it. To just take a budget rifle out of the box and expect great things is a gamble since lower production costs don't allow for the fit, finish and attention to detail in set up. Sometimes you get lucky though...
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