FX Sorted pellets effort in evidence

[bdzjlz]

Continuing with my rifle maintenance checks this morning, and looking at the performance tests recently completed after sorting several thousand .25 MKI and MKII pellets to help me choose the pellets to use for this rifle’s maintenance test, the results clearly indicate what happens when everything is correct and within tolerance.

Sorted to a head size of 6.38 mm and within a 10th of a grain in tolerance, the ES was only 4 fps over 10 shots and the group sizes were significantly below the .18” moa at 18 yards.

 

[Franklink]

Thanks for sharing your results, but 55 fpe @ 18yards?!?!? That paper target is well and dead.

I'm assuming group 1 is sorted and group 2 is unsorted? Or are both sorted?

For that kind of energy output I'd love to see a comparison of sorted versus not sorted at at least 50 yards, 75 or 100 would be better yet.

 

[tommyb]

Excellent results. Which pellet does your Dreamline shoot more accurately at 35, 40 and 50 yards with your .25 Dreamline? MK1 or MK2?

 

[SpiralGroove]

For that kind of energy output I'd love to see a comparison of sorted versus not sorted at at least 50 yards, 75 or 100 would be better yet.

Yes, we'd love to see longer distances.

 

[tommyb]

The MK1 and MK2 33g pellets both shot consistently between .5 to .75” CTC outdoors at 50y at my local range . I posted these groups on the Benchrest category, quite a while back when the FX Boss was a .25cal rifle. I think the MK2 were slightly better. Also did fairly well at 100 yards.

Those MK1 and 2 pellets are pretty good. I believe I was shooting them at 860-875 FPS at that time.

Will be interested to see future groups for your Dreamline .25.

Tom

 

[Stubbers]

Longer distances only introduces more variables, primarily outside of the guns ability. The primary variable being reading of the wind, on a calm day you'd likely get identical results with the group size growing equal in MOA to the distance you increase.

I think 18~ yards is plenty to show what a rifle is capable of doing, going further out will would only test the shooter imo.

Weighing and sizing pellets makes a huge difference in group sizing / ES. For .25 cal shooting 34 grains we're talking around 1 fps for every .1 gr.

-Matt

 

[tommyb]

Longer distances only introduces more variables, primarily outside of the guns ability. The primary variable being reading of the wind, on a calm day you'd likely get identical results with the group size growing equal in MOA to the distance you increase.

I think 18~ yards is plenty to show what a rifle is capable of doing, going further out will would only test the shooter imo.

Weighing and sizing pellets makes a huge difference in group sizing / ES. For .25 cal shooting 34 grains we're talking around 1 fps for every .1 gr.

-Matt

Yes and no. I agree with your first paragraph, but I’m not sure 18 yards tells me all I need to know about the rifle. And, I know the OP wasn’t intimating that either, but rather this reflected one session and his test distance environment for a point in time. Let me explain a point of view only, not a fact. Just my experience only.

Most/all of my rifles will shoot one small hole at 20 yards, and if I depended solely on that distance to assess different pellets, brands and rifle tunes; I honestly would not be able to deduce any solid conclusions. And at the opposite end of this spectrum, ( to your point ) and shooting at 75, 100 or greater; you need the stars to really align. I.e., great rifle and barrel, ability to read wind, solid BR techniques and skills, sorted high quality pellets, et al.

So, for me the one hole at 20 yards from the bench is a given expectation and the cost of ante. If I want to see what can happen at 30-50 yards as an example only, I normally can draw some conclusions at those distances.

In any case, these types of threads impart knowledge, experience and alternate POVs; which is why we come to AGN.

 

[Stubbers]

Yes and no. I agree with your first paragraph, but I’m not sure 18 yards tells me all I need to know about the rifle. And, I know the OP wasn’t intimating that either, but rather this reflected one session and his test distance environment for a point in time. Let me explain a point of view only, not a fact. Just my experience only.

Most/all of my rifles will shoot one small hole at 20 yards, and if I depended solely on that distance to assess different pellets, brands and rifle tunes; I honestly would not be able to deduce any solid conclusions. And at the opposite end of this spectrum, ( to your point ) and shooting at 75, 100 or greater; you need the stars to really align. I.e., great rifle and barrel, ability to read wind, solid BR techniques and skills, sorted high quality pellets, et al.

So, for me the one hole at 20 yards from the bench is a given expectation and the cost of ante. If I want to see what can happen at 30-50 yards as an example only, I normally can draw some conclusions at those distances.

In any case, these types of threads impart knowledge, experience and alternate POVs; which is why we come to AGN.

I've only shot a few pcp's between my and my buddies, but all that shoot well from 18 shoot fine out to 50/75 if you do your job, never seen a rifle shoot great like this at 18 then fail at 50/75 unless its other conditions, even potentially ammo. Generally a poor performing rifle will reveal itself at 20~ yards. Just my anecdote.

-Matt

 

[JimD]

I tried sorting pellets while shooting 30 yard challenge targets and stopped after I could not tell a difference in my scores. But I was shooting H&N Baracuda Match which seem to be more consistent in weight and head size than the others I have tried including JSB. I shot a 200, for instance, with my P35-22 using pellets straight out of the tin into a magazine and then out the P35 to the target. I did a shot string recently after a little bit of a retune with the same gun and pellets. My ES for 23 shots was 5.58 and the std deviation was 1.73. The first shot was a little off but the regulator seemed to work better on subsequent shorter strings so I haven't changed the hammer spring yet. I might have to increase it a tiny amount to bring the first shot firmly into the string. But in terms of a benefit of sorting I would argue that a 23 shot string with ES under 6 leaves nearly no room for improvement and is if anything better than a 10 shot string at 4 ES.

 

[bdzjlz]

All of you have great points and perspectives. For me, these exercises are so much more. I can precisely control the environment in setting a close zero of 18 yards, because I have no weather or light issues indoors. I can then reset to that at any point I remove a scope, tighten stock screws, etc. at anytime day or night and regardless of weather.

These exercises are great opportunities for adjusting trigger pull weights and looking for leak off conditions, etc.

Finally, my experience over nearly 20 years with air rifles and well over 100,000 pellets - if it won’t shoot at 18 yards it certainly won’t shoot at 50 or 100. In short, the performance at a closer distance seems to proportionately transfer to the longer distances.

Thanks for all of your responses.

DZ

 

[tommyb]

I've only shot a few pcp's between my and my buddies, but all that shoot well from 18 shoot fine out to 50/75 if you do your job, never seen a rifle shoot great like this at 18 then fail at 50/75 unless its other conditions, even potentially ammo. Generally a poor performing rifle will reveal itself at 20~ yards. Just my anecdote.

-Matt

Interesting results from both of us. I hear you.

I have three .22 rifles that are 28-30 FPE and all shoot accurately at 30-40 yards and pretty solid at 50. These same rifles all shoot one hole like the OP at 20Y. None of these shoot very well at 75 or greater. Why - because they are not long range guns for my usage.

 

[tommyb]

All of you have great points and perspectives. For me, these exercises are so much more. I can precisely control the environment in setting a close zero of 18 yards, because I have no weather or light issues indoors. I can then reset to that at any point I remove a scope, tighten stock screws, etc. at anytime day or night and regardless of weather.

These exercises are great opportunities for adjusting trigger pull weights and looking for leak off conditions, etc.

Finally, my experience over nearly 20 years with air rifles and well over 100,000 pellets - if it won’t shoot at 18 yards it certainly won’t shoot at 50 or 100. In short, the performance at a closer distance seems to proportionately transfer to the longer distances.

Thanks for all of your responses.

DZ

Great thread DZ.

Watching France vs. South Africa Rugby Quarter final as I’m reading this. Ireland lost a heart breaker yesterday. My wife is from Ireland and things were quite lively watching the match.

Everyone knows there are never any disagreements here on AGN, just cleverly worded points of view that bias our opinions to ‘our own point of view.’

Like I said, great thread.

 

[JimD]

I agree that a gun/pellet that shoots poorly at 20 yards (or 18) will not shoot well at 30 or 35, or 50 or 100. I have used 25 yards to sort pellets before and probably will again. It sounds like you have an indoor 18 yard range and if I had one, I'm sure I would use it.

But I would not consider 18 or 25 yard results as my final verdict. I am limited to 35 yards for my range at home so I normally use that as my maximum. I'd probably use 50 if I had it. But it becomes nearly useless to test if the wind picks up. But I still think testing at longer range is necessary to make a final decision on pellets. JSB 18s shot about as well as H&N Baracuda 21 grain at 25 yards in my P35-22 but the H&Ns shot noticably better at 35.

I like the fact that you gave the ES and std deviation. I've noticed that pellets that shoot smaller groups have lower ES in my guns. It's a lot easier to mess up a group than to record the wrong velocity for a shot. So I Iike to look at both. If I get a pellet with a low ES and a bigger group I consider that a reason to retest. Same thing with a small group but a high ES. My "best pellets" for each gun have both small groups (or high 30 yard Challenge scores) and low ESs.

 

[bdzjlz]

I do have 85 yards outdoors. All of my guns get tested at 50 and 85, plus once I get trajectory/dope charts established, checked at least in 10 yard intervals. The indoor range is just the starting point.

 

[elh0102]

Lots of good opinions, and I'll just add one more. I have found that 25 yards is a good distance for testing. It's short enough that even an average shooter should be able to contain errors to a minimum. And it's far enough that the variable (pellets in this case) will begin to show its result. Absent significant wind, I have found this very reliable. There is also a relevant position that testing should be done at the maximum routine distance. Since you're going to end up there anyway, why not just start there? I always used that approach when working up BR loads in CF cartridges. Frankly, an experienced shooter under good conditions might find this preferable. Granted, even a light wind will affect a pellet, but if the testing is consistent, the end result might be more productive than the short-range approach.