I know the not available to the public yet Red Panda took first with a great shooter behind the trigger, what were the next 9 placers shooting?
So what were the top ten rifles in the BR at PAC?
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This is pleasant to hear. A "new comer" to the stables placing but not totally outclassing a bunch of production rifles. I dig it.
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It appears the days of Impact domination are drawing to a close… RIP
“Move over little dog, the mean old dog is moving’ in”.
“Move over little dog, the mean old dog is moving’ in”.
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That's pretty exciting to see the Red Panda doing so well in the 2nd competition! Makes people think twice now.
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Yes. I’d really like to see them in the tricky winds at EBR. Not sure if they are coming….
Don’t think Saber Tactical / DonnyFL are playing that silly political stunt that a few are doing…
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Well, its a bit of a cycle.. now back to heavy steel barrels in benchrest…
FX was very innovative when they figured out that all a PCP needed to shoot accurately was a thin steel tube (liner), rather than what we have come to regard as a true rifle “barrel“ (made from thick steel).
If anyone has taken off the shroud, carbon tubes, etc and just looked at their FX rifle with the bare liner, you realize that FX figured out all you need is essentially a compressed air blow pipe to compete at even the highest level of airgunning.
The great thing about the FX liner system is that the rifles could be made very lightweight, so fantastic for carrying all day in the field. Its also cool that you can cost effectively swap liners - much cheaper than high-end barrels.
The drawback to the thin liner system is that the thinness lacks the stiffness and weight of a traditional barrel, leading to the need to control the vibration and “harmonics“ of the liners - resulting in a myriad of add-ons to FX rifles to help manage this (barrel tensioners, harmonic tuners, carbon sleeves, stiffening rails, plenums around the liner, etc).
I noticed in a video I saw the other day on the Panthera that when the guy removed the shroud, his rifle appeared to have FX branded weights attached directly to the liner/carbon sleeve - under the shroud. So it appears that FX is at least experimenting with adding weight to the liner barrel itself as a way to control harmonics.
In the end, adding weight, stiffeners, etc. may be of most importance to serious competition shooters, as my FX rifles have been very accurate for non-competition level target shooting.
Rather than go back to heavy, thick steel for future barrel technology, I’d love to see innovation with pure carbon fiber barrels - perhaps with rifling molded in with extremely high precision - who knows? (Teflon coatings to minimize friction inside the cf barrels). Even more hopefully is that carbon fiber barrels could be made more cost effectively than steel rifle barrels - carbon fiber tennis rackets have tons of tech in them, but cost is reasonable. If FX, Daystate, LW or another manufacturer could develop a very stiff, low vibration and hence very accurate carbon fiber air rifle barrel - WITHOUT adding significant weight - now that would be innovation…!
We went through a similar evolution with tennis rackets starting back in the 1970s. Wilson actually made a series of steel tennis rackets (T-2000, T3000) - Jimmy Connors used a T-2000. What was quickly learned is that steel has a POOR stiffness to weight ratio compared to modern materials like carbon fibre (or even extruded aluminum). Steel was too flexible to be a good material for a tennis racket - where keeping a lighter weight is also important. I’m thinking rifles are carried, so lower weight is better if accuracy can be maintained. Perhaps it will take a company from outside the airgun industry (i.e. like from the paintball industry) to bring some revolutionary change to airgun barrel technology.
-Ed
FX was very innovative when they figured out that all a PCP needed to shoot accurately was a thin steel tube (liner), rather than what we have come to regard as a true rifle “barrel“ (made from thick steel).
If anyone has taken off the shroud, carbon tubes, etc and just looked at their FX rifle with the bare liner, you realize that FX figured out all you need is essentially a compressed air blow pipe to compete at even the highest level of airgunning.
The great thing about the FX liner system is that the rifles could be made very lightweight, so fantastic for carrying all day in the field. Its also cool that you can cost effectively swap liners - much cheaper than high-end barrels.
The drawback to the thin liner system is that the thinness lacks the stiffness and weight of a traditional barrel, leading to the need to control the vibration and “harmonics“ of the liners - resulting in a myriad of add-ons to FX rifles to help manage this (barrel tensioners, harmonic tuners, carbon sleeves, stiffening rails, plenums around the liner, etc).
I noticed in a video I saw the other day on the Panthera that when the guy removed the shroud, his rifle appeared to have FX branded weights attached directly to the liner/carbon sleeve - under the shroud. So it appears that FX is at least experimenting with adding weight to the liner barrel itself as a way to control harmonics.
In the end, adding weight, stiffeners, etc. may be of most importance to serious competition shooters, as my FX rifles have been very accurate for non-competition level target shooting.
Rather than go back to heavy, thick steel for future barrel technology, I’d love to see innovation with pure carbon fiber barrels - perhaps with rifling molded in with extremely high precision - who knows? (Teflon coatings to minimize friction inside the cf barrels). Even more hopefully is that carbon fiber barrels could be made more cost effectively than steel rifle barrels - carbon fiber tennis rackets have tons of tech in them, but cost is reasonable. If FX, Daystate, LW or another manufacturer could develop a very stiff, low vibration and hence very accurate carbon fiber air rifle barrel - WITHOUT adding significant weight - now that would be innovation…!
We went through a similar evolution with tennis rackets starting back in the 1970s. Wilson actually made a series of steel tennis rackets (T-2000, T3000) - Jimmy Connors used a T-2000. What was quickly learned is that steel has a POOR stiffness to weight ratio compared to modern materials like carbon fibre (or even extruded aluminum). Steel was too flexible to be a good material for a tennis racket - where keeping a lighter weight is also important. I’m thinking rifles are carried, so lower weight is better if accuracy can be maintained. Perhaps it will take a company from outside the airgun industry (i.e. like from the paintball industry) to bring some revolutionary change to airgun barrel technology.
-Ed
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IMO, the current crop of air rifles including the Panda, FX, RAW, Daystate, Thomas, and others are perfectly capable of winning matches. All it takes is the practice and perseverance of the shooter to hone his marksmanship and make it work. I'm not about to sell all my guns every time a new one shows up on the range.
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We are of the same thought then. All this talk of 1 rifle winning, winning , winning is imo taking away from the fantastic job the shooter has done, albeit on a small scale.
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I agree. But, and there is a logical but. Thayne is a great shooter., usually near the top. But that SAME shooter with the Karma Red Panda all of a sudden wins two big 100Y BR events in a row? Not taking anything away from Thayne. I’ve shot with him and I know how good both he and his Dad Val are. But the new gun is just enough better than his FXs to put him over the top.
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When I was down in Florida I stopped by Donnies and was able to play with the Panda a little bit. I would HANDS DOWN take the Panda over any FX. The barrel system on the Panda is great and the way the system is set up is awesome.
Have been trying to convince Donny I need one up here in ND to give it some cold weather testing. The shot cycle is about nothing on the shot.
Have been trying to convince Donny I need one up here in ND to give it some cold weather testing. The shot cycle is about nothing on the shot.
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You can tell the shooter played a huge part by those day 1 cards and the drop off with wind. Not all those guys were shooting Pandas. Thomas Cox killed it with whatever he was shooting (sorry, I don’t know everyone). Talk about impressive. I’ll be shocked if he wasn’t near the top on day two. John Bagakis and his Daystate had an excellent day 1, and I trust he shot his trusty Red Wolf. Nikolai has a steady day 1 as well, probably shooting a FX.
It does seem like the Panda helped a few guys get a little better, but those rifles weren’t immune to the wind on that second card. Those second cards definitely looked like more shooter than rifles on Day 1. (And yes, I do believe the rifle does make a difference.
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2nd place finalist was shooting a Panthera on the bench next to mine. I think a Skout finished 8th.
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My take on the 100 yd bench at PAC, in shooting the first two cards next to Thane, is that Val and Thane (and their teammates) are on the next level reading wind and weather patterns. Their rifles and pellets were a low second to their wind and shooting skills. Thane knew in advance that the winds on the second card on Friday were going to shift at a certain time and took advantage of it. They could read the subtle shifts in the wind as the match progressed and adjusted well. I assume they did the same in the finals. Their scores were heads and shoulders above the rest of us in the finals. The only reason Val was down was a technical error on his part, but he had such a great score that even with the error he placed very high. My hat is off to these skilled shooters and their teammates, who also shot well.
For me, it was a truly awesome learning experience. I tried to follow their lead and was able to squeak into 13th place, fortunately - more luck than skill. The lower end of the placements were all very tight in score, with pretty much only bullseyes separating placing. I shot a lowly .30 FX Impact M3 (with 1st reg delete) - it performed flawlessly (and I am not a FX fanboy). All I had to do was read the wind and squeeze the trigger. The rifle printed right where I aimed and where the wind took it.
For me, it was a truly awesome learning experience. I tried to follow their lead and was able to squeak into 13th place, fortunately - more luck than skill. The lower end of the placements were all very tight in score, with pretty much only bullseyes separating placing. I shot a lowly .30 FX Impact M3 (with 1st reg delete) - it performed flawlessly (and I am not a FX fanboy). All I had to do was read the wind and squeeze the trigger. The rifle printed right where I aimed and where the wind took it.
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HAM is reporting the top shooters. You can guess some of the rifles, others have been discussed, and some are visible in Michael’s videos. Several great shooters are at the top as usual.
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Thayne Simmons Wins 100 Yard Benchrest At 2023 Pyramyd Air Cup
Big news from the 2023 Pyramyd Air Cup is that Thayne Simmons wins the prestigious 100 Yard Benchrest competition with a score of 232 x8. That was great shooting by Thayne who won against a large field of talented competitors! Our photographs show the winners being presented with their prizes...
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I've competed in pretty much all the big BR matches in the US. Northeast, RMAC, PAC and EBR. The wind conditions in all of these places are way different than in Florida. To be totally honest it's very stressful because the wind is never consistent in any direction. It feels like you're shooting through a mini cyclone. There were a few times at PAC where I shot the bullseye of one sighter and it hits the bullseye of the sighter next to it. I heard others experience the same thing. For those that were not at PAC, the 100 yd benchrest was divided into 3 groups. Group 1 started at 9:15am. The wind condition was very calm hence the high scores. Starting around 9:30am the wind started to pick up and for those who did not complete their targets within 10mins, the conditions became challenging real quick. When Group 2 started at 10:15am, wind was blowing even harder and you could tell by the lower scores. Group 3 started at 11:15am and they got the worst of it. Unlike RMAC and EBR where you shoot both of your qualifying cards on different days, PAC you shoot them both on the same day. People asked me what happened to my second card, well Group 1 went again at 12:15pm and we're now experiencing what Group 2 and 3 did. Even though I placed 2nd in the first card, I did so bad my second card that I didn't think I would qualify for the finals but I did. Other shooters were experiencing the same thing. The Saber team stayed in the same house and every night we would weigh, roll and measure the heads on each pellet until 2am, woke up at 5:30am to get breakfast and be at the sight ins by 7am. I learned a lot from Thayne and Val, true champs for sure. They put a lot of time into getting to know their Red Pandas. Overall we had a blast and Pyramydair did a great job. There were some hiccups with scoring but it was resolved when brought to their attention. Their staff worked so hard and I applaud them. Until next year PAC 
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Thanks for the excellent description Donny, much appreciated!I've competed in pretty much all the big BR matches in the US. Northeast, RMAC, PAC and EBR. The wind conditions in all of these places are way different than in Florida. To be totally honest it's very stressful because the wind is never consistent in any direction. It feels like you're shooting through a mini cyclone. There were a few times at PAC where I shot the bullseye of one sighter and it hits the bullseye of the sighter next to it. I heard others experience the same thing. For those that were not at PAC, the 100 yd benchrest was divided into 3 groups. Group 1 started at 9:15am. The wind condition was very calm hence the high scores. Starting around 9:30am the wind started to pick up and for those who did not complete their targets within 10mins, the conditions became challenging real quick. When Group 2 started at 10:15am, wind was blowing even harder and you could tell by the lower scores. Group 3 started at 11:15am and they got the worst of it. Unlike RMAC and EBR where you shoot both of your qualifying cards on different days, PAC you shoot them both on the same day. People asked me what happened to my second card, well Group 1 went again at 12:15pm and we're now experiencing what Group 2 and 3 did. Even though I placed 2nd in the first card, I did so bad my second card that I didn't think I would qualify for the finals but I did. Other shooters were experiencing the same thing. The Saber team stayed in the same house and every night we would weigh, roll and measure the heads on each pellet until 2am, woke up at 5:30am to get breakfast and be at the sight ins by 7am. I learned a lot from Thayne and Val, true champs for sure. They put a lot of time into getting to know their Red Pandas. Overall we had a blast and Pyramydair did a great job. There were some hiccups with scoring but it was resolved when brought to their attention. Their staff worked so hard and I applaud them. Until next year PAC
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