Slugs vs Pellets and Airgun Power vs The Law

Pretty naive to think that ABC agents are not members here and are very much aware of the capabilities of modern airguns.

Nothing here is secret, no filters, pay-walls or invite only memberships, all we have written in the past already damns us and the industry so I say, go ahead and talk openly about it.

Those that write here, "Shhhhh!, they could be listening." are likely the ones that peek the algorithms and get scrutinized the most.

We are 100% legal, obeying all laws, there should be no guilt or whispers going on here, stand up and be men and women.
 
I’ve learned government does pretty much what government wants (all levels and size)and there’s little to nothing an ordinary citizen can do about it in the short run.
Live your life, stay out of trouble, vote, pay those damn taxes, and be glad we can at least speak out freely and get injustice and miscarriage of law changed eventually.
No need to hide what you’re doing but also there’s no need or reason to broadcast it. imho
 
We all know about “it”, and have known fir years…. But why waste time knowing full well this’ll get locked, one, it causes bad blood between ourselves, two, and look at how all these end?

It’s about as pointless a topic as discussing Dammers spaghetti sauce recipe.

Just enjoy the nature of this hobby and the fact that we can afford this hobby!

Here’s a topic “worth” discussing, but never asked- how about some tips from the benchrest shooters that are in the limelight or are die hard regulars on a circuit? From prep tips, practice tips, corrections to common shooting errors, choice of equipment, gun prep, the day of the event, etc etc.

I can guarantee 99.9% of the AGN members would appreciate a topic like that, wether they compete on the bench or not.

Or we can discuss wether he used oregano in that sauce of his…
 
Last edited:
Some may question why I started this thread. It is easier to stop a law before it becomes a law than get it changed. I am an old man and remember the judge I worked for tell me how the restrictions on silencers got passed. At the time there were almost none used in crime. To get support so it could be added to the same bill that would regulate machine guns they turned to law enforcement and picked up an unlikely ally, game wardens. Remember it was the 1930’s and the country was in a Great Depression, people were out of work and starving. The game wardens testified that silencers would allow people to take game and decimate the game population while hindering their ability to stop them. Then in the 1980’s archeologists started to press for legislation to stop metal detecting. As the head of archeology at Fort Hood told me , he would rather have something never be found than have it be found by someone other than an archeologist. They were able to pass laws outlawing detecting on Federal land and some state lands. Now Alphabet org is going after pistol braces that were developed to help the handicapped shooters. Braces haven’t hurt anyone but that doesn’t matter. All I am saying if we want our sport to survive we need to get ready to support it. When the time comes if we are not ready it will be too late.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bernie7 and 450BM
Yeah that's a lot of words just to say "I don't get the point so I'm going to lash out at the people who do"
No actually I get the point very clearly.
Without the tongue in cheek I will address each point.
What would be gained by referring to slugs as anything other than what they are? It will not change their appearance or terminal performance one bit. They will still bear a striking resemblance to bullets. They have gained enough traction that they are not going away.
Don’t mention moderators is going to accomplish what? They are ubiquitous to the air gunning world. They are legal. So why would you not mention them? As long as they cannot be easily adapted to firearms, Those Who May Not Be Named will pay them scant attention because they are being used on nonregulated items.
Don’t tell anybody about air gunning. This is the one that really perplexed me. Are we ashamed of our hobby? Is it not safer than firearms? Do we not have organized competitions, clubs and national organizations for the sport? FFA and 4H both have active air gun programs for youths depending on location.
What really had me confused is the theory that we are better off dealing with people who know little about our hobby. Do you think that we are opposed by anyone who actually has a fundamental knowledge of our sport and our equipment? Do we believe that existing restrictions on firearms were enacted by people who know and understand powder burners?
The answer to both questions is no. Emphatic NO.
I have introduced many people to modern high power air guns and not one, not one single one came away with a negative opinion of them. The vast majority of those people had never used a firearm. Not all took up the hobby, but all left with a positive opinion of our hobby.
Without properly introducing and educating new shooters how do you propose we grow the sport?
Why grow the sport? Many reasons exist. Growth Is what makes advances in technology possible. Larger markets drive innovation. Numbers, big numbers of us will be better able to defend our sport than small numbers. Numbers is what makes the NRA so powerful. They have no magic power of persuasion. They have money that is generated by numbers. They have voters, lots and lots of voters and that is where their power lies and how they have kept the antis at bay.
You want to put a basket over the lamp that is air gunning to dim the light, good luck. YouTube will negate any amount of silence you can muster all by itself. Then there are all the websites from manufacturers that promote their innovations, performance accuracy etc, and the reviewers, the hunting channels etc and it is all out in the public domain for god, neophytes and the dreaded ones who we are not allowed to name To consume. Because all this is out there our sport grows and develops bringing the numbers needed to defend our sport.
What I find the most interesting aspect is we are on a forum where we openly discuss air guns ranging from sub 12’s to massive air rifles that can cleanly take big game. We discuss the power, accuracy, single shots to semi autos, pellets to massive slugs weighing 500+ gr.
We have a forum for hunting, harvesting (killing) pests and game animals alike. We even discuss moderators openly. Yet we have members who are active posting here on all manner of subjects telling us we need to rename items, don’t mention others, refuse to share knowledge of our sport in an effort to somehow protect us from ourselves. All of that is right here in this thread.
Now if the fact that they contribute to all manner of subjects on a public forum that anyone can view and still espouse keeping a low profile does not smack of irony then nothing else does.
I refuse to hide what I love. I will share it with any person who I think will benefit from participating or will become an asset to our sport. I will openly and honestly answer any question about airgunning in the most positive way I can. I will defend what we do because I have great respect for the sport and those who share it with me.
What I won’t do is shade my answers and or feign ignorance to avoid a tough question or situation. I am part of an honorable and respectable sport and see no reason or benefit in acting like I need to hide anything about it.
Your opinion obviously differs from mine and I respect that. We cannot all see things the same. If you read this, thank you for taking the time to read it. I was not lashing out at anyone. I may have chosen a poor way to convey my thoughts and positions but felt the issue deserved differing opinions to be shared.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 450BM
No actually I get the point very clearly.
Without the tongue in cheek I will address each point.
What would be gained by referring to slugs as anything other than what they are? It will not change their appearance or terminal performance one bit. They will still bear a striking resemblance to bullets. They have gained enough traction that they are not going away.
Don’t mention moderators is going to accomplish what? They are ubiquitous to the air gunning world. They are legal. So why would you not mention them? As long as they cannot be easily adapted to firearms, Those Who May Not Be Named will pay them scant attention because they are being used on nonregulated items.
Don’t tell anybody about air gunning. This is the one that really perplexed me. Are we ashamed of our hobby? Is it not safer than firearms? Do we not have organized competitions, clubs and national organizations for the sport? FFA and 4H both have active air gun programs for youths depending on location.
What really had me confused is the theory that we are better off dealing with people who know little about our hobby. Do you think that we are opposed by anyone who actually has a fundamental knowledge of our sport and our equipment? Do we believe that existing restrictions on firearms were enacted by people who know and understand powder burners?
The answer to both questions is no. Emphatic NO.
I have introduced many people to modern high power air guns and not one, not one single one came away with a negative opinion of them. The vast majority of those people had never used a firearm. Not all took up the hobby, but all left with a positive opinion of our hobby.
Without properly introducing and educating new shooters how do you propose we grow the sport?
Why grow the sport? Many reasons exist. Growth Is what makes advances in technology possible. Larger markets drive innovation. Numbers, big numbers of us will be better able to defend our sport than small numbers. Numbers is what makes the NRA so powerful. They have no magic power of persuasion. They have money that is generated by numbers. They have voters, lots and lots of voters and that is where their power lies and how they have kept the antis at bay.
You want to put a basket over the lamp that is air gunning to dim the light, good luck. YouTube will negate any amount of silence you can muster all by itself. Then there are all the websites from manufacturers that promote their innovations, performance accuracy etc, and the reviewers, the hunting channels etc and it is all out in the public domain for god, neophytes and the dreaded ones who we are not allowed to name To consume. Because all this is out there our sport grows and develops bringing the numbers needed to defend our sport.
What I find the most interesting aspect is we are on a forum where we openly discuss air guns ranging from sub 12’s to massive air rifles that can cleanly take big game. We discuss the power, accuracy, single shots to semi autos, pellets to massive slugs weighing 500+ gr.
We have a forum for hunting, harvesting (killing) pests and game animals alike. We even discuss moderators openly. Yet we have members who are active posting here on all manner of subjects telling us we need to rename items, don’t mention others, refuse to share knowledge of our sport in an effort to somehow protect us from ourselves. All of that is right here in this thread.
Now if the fact that they contribute to all manner of subjects on a public forum that anyone can view and still espouse keeping a low profile does not smack of irony then nothing else does.
I refuse to hide what I love. I will share it with any person who I think will benefit from participating or will become an asset to our sport. I will openly and honestly answer any question about airgunning in the most positive way I can. I will defend what we do because I have great respect for the sport and those who share it with me.
What I won’t do is shade my answers and or feign ignorance to avoid a tough question or situation. I am part of an honorable and respectable sport and see no reason or benefit in acting like I need to hide anything about it.
Your opinion obviously differs from mine and I respect that. We cannot all see things the same. If you read this, thank you for taking the time to read it. I was not lashing out at anyone. I may have chosen a poor way to convey my thoughts and positions but felt the issue deserved differing opinions to be shared.
You say what I was trying to say more eloquently and I agree with you whole heartedly . Hope the others will realize if you don’t stand up for what you believe someone will come and take it away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 450BM
Anyone who knows criminals knows that it’s highly unlikely they will be using high powered pcps to commit crimes. What they will use are those cheap co2 pistols that are identical to pb pistols. There are many robberies that you don’t hear about where the perp is using a co2 pistol. I wouldn’t mind if they stopped selling airguns at big box stores where they will likely be found by the wrong person. Most airgun related crimes would be prevented if they weren’t sold in big box stores. Wannabe thugs wouldn’t be able to have easy access to a look alike pistol. If you scour enough airgun related crimes you’ll see they all involve two bit criminals or young kids using cheap airguns they bought from a big box store. The more professional criminals would laugh at the thought of using a cheap or expensive pellet gun.

The other possible dangers that I’ve seen are guys shooting high power pellet guns in their suburban backyard with neighbors in very close proximity. There was a guy posting here a few months ago doing just that. Shooting in his suburban backyard with an impact mk3! Only reason I caught on is I saw he was from Lynbrook, NY. Anyone from that area of New York knows how close your neighbors are, damn near on top of each other. I called him out on it immediately and suggested he go to a close by gun range. He agreed that it wasn’t the smartest thing to do and that the impact was too much for his 10 meter shooting. Hopefully he heeds that advice. Unfortunately there’s no shortage of dummies in this world and best believe they are already buying pcps. Nothing you can do about. What we can do is prevent our kids from having unsupervised access to our high power airguns. A curious kid with no supervision can be an accident waiting to happen. Even worse are kids who are mentally unstable. Now I’m not advocating that we stop letting our kids shoot airguns. Quite the opposite I think we should let them shoot them frequently while educating them about safety. For Gods sake don’t leave your airguns by the back door or in your truck if you have kids.
 
  • Like
Reactions: L.Leon and 450BM