Slugs distance to “stabilize”?

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I'm with you I just don't believe it. When I am harmonic tuning my Impact I shoot at thirty yards and when the stars align just right I get three shots through the same exact hole. Now when I shoot a group at 100 yards right after it may be a sub MOA group or it may be an inch and a half group but it is definitely always larger than my original three shot one hole group as there is no way it could be any smaller. So as far as stabilizing I think that if I shoot them through the same hole at thirty yards I would guess they are already stable and as they travel they become more unstable or they would go trough the same hole at one hundred yards as well. Which I actually did once but alas it was a cloverleaf group so still bigger than the original thirty yard single hole.
 
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 My .02... Or two words...

Gyroscopic precession...

Ken

EDIT: if it was mentioned earlier I musta missed it... The way I understand it is from the powder burner world, VERY long range shooting... The trajectory of the "cone" is a constant and can be plotted and corrected for, if I remember correctly, rifling (twist rate, # of lands and grooves), distance and speed and projectiles (shape and weight) are the variables... The demonstration is this, center line of the bore, paper targets off axis at different distances and the round goes through all the paper targets demonstrating the cone... Just like in football spiral the cone gets smaller... I hope that made sense...

My PB of choice for long range: Winchester M70 shooting .270 boat tail spitzers... 
 
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I'm sure this phenomena has been captured on ultra high speed cameras... I'll have to google that...

1566303036_5658553305d5be33ce80bd1.74517532_CNX_UPhysics_11_01_Prob24_img.jpg


Gyroscopic precession... Its not "mumbo jumbo" it's physics...

Ken
 
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Like the football example.

when the slug is in "wobbling stage" it might look inaccurate on close range target, but is following the same path ... is not more accurate at long distances, is "unwobbled" (so the mark will be more precise?)

Now I wonder more concentric slugs will remove the wobble? and that will make them even more precise? do all slugs wobble?



https://youtu.be/uVyhyNvlN3Y



There is a lot of info on "Bullet Wobble" , from what I read on firearms, is more desirable to eliminate the wobble. Donno, more questions than answers in this moment.

https://webpath.med.utah.edu/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html

As usual good Q.s CC!
 
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Here's one that will hurt your brains... Think flushing the toilet in the northern hemisphere; it spins clockwise, in the southern hemisphere I've been told it spins counter clockwise (someone back me up here)…!!! So, if the rifling has a left hand twist here in the northern hemisphere and a rifle has a right hand twist in the southern hemisphere are we fighting the laws of nature (physics) if the rifling twists were reversed would it matter…???

I think too much, I talk too much, I write too much...

Ken
 
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I appreciate the input, but there are a few points to consider. 

Its been scientifically proven that while epicyclic swerve (which is being described above in the page 2 posts as a different name) exists, it does not affect the flight path of the projectile a significant amount. 

More importantly, while we have been discussing slug stability, and when or how far it takes to become stable, my initial question is how does this instability correct itself to the point where it results in auto correction to the point that the 100 yard group is equal or better than the 50 yard group? I think Air rifle slugs are fully stable within ten yards, how else would you be able to shoot one hole groups at 30 yards before moving further out? 

I personally think from a physics standpoint that this is impossible without some serious voodoo. I have researched and found zero studies that show this phenomenon exists. Lots and lots of old wives tales and campfire stories, but nothing scientific...
 
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Yup, precession is the only stabilization theory I can see as even being a possibility. Still never going to shrink groups at distance or any such thing.

Interesting thing is, when watching ultra slomo videos on channels like smarter every day, you can see that even on firearms any actual initial precession/wobble of the projectile is absolutely miniscule, if there at all and I would think very unlikely to do anything to somehow affect close up precision.





https://youtu.be/7pOXunRYJIw






 
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Aaaarrrghhh! ;) I understand the stability question. Whether or not it takes 10 yards or 50 yards to become stable is not the question. If the instability results in a dispersion of 1/2 inch at 50 yards, then if the slugs stabilize at that point the 100 yard dispersion would be 1 inch. The instability would be gone and the slugs would continue on the same path they were on at 50 yards. So HOW would they redirect themselves to get the smaller theorized 1/2 inch group at 100 yards? Voodoo? Magic? T2 Liquid Metal ballistics?
 
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how does this instability correct itself to the point where it results in auto correction to the point that the 100 yard group is equal or better than the 50 yard group?
Click to expand...

what make sense to me is that the correction left a more precise MARK or PRINT at longer distance since is corrected. But the projectile is not more accurate, is only leaving a better print / mark on the paper or whatever, ergo more accurate? NO.

in 30 yards the slug is wobbling so the mark on the paper will not be slug on slug, if you shoot 10 shots, the mark might look like 1 inch since the slug is not entering straight, and in 100 y might look sub moa, since is entering straighter into the paper, so the conclusion for some is that is more accurate at longer distance when is not, is a visual effect due the epicyclic swerve.

Damn too much free time today! ;)
 
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A gun that’s tuned almost perfectly will perform so ,and all others will exhibit the traits of a struggling projectile . Struggling to stick to the program! Fighting the program flaws and stuck within the laws( physics). And don’t forget about the mental capacity you may not have honed yet! The intuitive ability to guide the bullet when you have become one with it!!’ Lololol😜😂😂😂🤣😂🤣 y’all have a great day!!!
 
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I’d like us to stick to air rifles and subsonic slugs. In this case, I’m pretty much 100 percent sure that our slugs are fully stable at around ten yards, and no doubt are fully stable at 30 yards. I’ve shot .22 slugs 22.5 grain VK and got perfectly round holes and 1/4 inch groups at 25 meters with both a Taipan Mutant and an Edgun R3 Long. 
 
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I’d like us to stick to air rifles and subsonic slugs. In this case, I’m pretty much 100 percent sure that our slugs are fully stable at around ten yards, and no doubt are fully stable at 30 yards. I’ve shot .22 slugs 22.5 grain VK and got perfectly round holes and 1/4 inch groups at 25 meters with both a Taipan Mutant and an Edgun R3 Long.
Click to expand...

If the wobble does not exist, then agree with you ... but probably every barrel is different, I have never thought about it really until today jaja do not see the point to shoot slugs at short distance, I always cero @ 40m and if I need to shoot less I use pellets
 
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I think of it like this, at the muzzle when shot the projectile is traveling in a spiral and arc combined, not just spinning, picture a cone, large end at the muzzle, the projectiles high weight and high angular momentum leaving the muzzle is what creates this cone effect (centrifugal force pulling off axis) and as the angular momentum bleeds off its effect is lessened, thus the cone/spiral gets tighter...

Too much coffee this morning...

Ken
 
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