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Slug shooting and choked barrels?

A previous post by Solo1 regarding slugs and choked barrels got me thinking. In an FX barrel liner how close to the muzzle is the choke? Could you take a 700mm liner and cut it to the same length as a 600mm liner and therefore remove the choke? Muzzle would probably need to be re-crowned. Could I then use that liner for slugs in my 600mm Crown MK2? Am I over looking something important or could that work? Thanks.

Kenny
 
Nope, not overlooking, that could absolutely work. Choke is typically pretty short (often an inch or less, it seems) 

Fx does choke their slug barrels some. How much or why, I don't know. A properly sized projectile for a given barrel size should not need or benefit from a choke. But I recon with the variety of projectiles available with no definite standard for size.... And the slight variance in every barrel... the choke alleviates some of the size mis-match? 
 
Chokes can be great in barrels with larger groove diameters in relation to the slug. They've been counter productive in barrels that already have tighter groove diameters for the given slug.

Cutting off the liner choke isn't generally a good idea. The only instance where I can see it being beneficial is when you're absolutely sure that the slug diameter is properly sized for the unchoked bore (slugging the barrel and using a good micrometer), and that the choke is responsible for causing accuracy issues.

Lapping / polishing / buffing the choke is a better step to take before cutting off the choke. You have to be careful not to stress the liner cutting it off with a saw (using a lathe to cut it off will usually create an unintended choke from stress that you'd have to deal with).

So my first question to anyone considering cutting off their choke is always this: have you already slugged the choked and unchoked sections of the barrel, and measured both of those slugs (AND the problematic projectile) with a good micrometer?
 
Some times the choke isn’t the problem a slight bur or defect at the crown has caused problems for me.
That being said I’ve found the 22 JSB knock out slugs do well in several of my 22 cal guns ( FX impact and crown) the .217 diameter.unchoked barrel The .216 did poorly but shot respectable well in my daystate red Wolf which I believe has a choked barrel. I don’t think many of the air rifle barrels are machined as carefully as the stuff that’s available for powder burners. I may be wrong but my guess is if you combined a true match barrel with equally exacting ammo ( slugs or pellets) you would have no need for a choke and much more consistent grouping. I’d think too that if air rifle actions were modeled after powder burners with screwed in heavier barrels accuracy would be improved. Air rifles are just made differently and probably because we don’t need actions which have to contain the high pressures that are required for even rim fire guns. I think we give up somethings doing things as they are done. BUT I’m no engineer or fire arms expert. I do have a bore scope and I haven’t looked at an air rifle barrel yet that has impressed me all that much.
 
Some times the choke isn’t the problem a slight bur or defect at the crown has caused problems for me.
That being said I’ve found the 22 JSB knock out slugs do well in several of my 22 cal guns ( FX impact and crown) the .217 diameter.unchoked barrel The .216 did poorly but shot respectable well in my daystate red Wolf which I believe has a choked barrel. I don’t think many of the air rifle barrels are machined as carefully as the stuff that’s available for powder burners. I may be wrong but my guess is if you combined a true match barrel with equally exacting ammo ( slugs or pellets) you would have no need for a choke and much more consistent grouping. I’d think too that if air rifle actions were modeled after powder burners with screwed in heavier barrels accuracy would be improved. Air rifles are just made differently and probably because we don’t need actions which have to contain the high pressures that are required for even rim fire guns. I think we give up somethings doing things as they are done. BUT I’m no engineer or fire arms expert. I do have a bore scope and I haven’t looked at an air rifle barrel yet that has impressed me all that much.

You've hit the Nail pretty much on the head here. Yes, a LOT of short cuts are taken with ag barrels in general. Wit highly inflated prices for the work done. 

I have both choked bbl's and un chokes bbls that shoot slugs. However, remember, I design and test slugs as a passion. As does my good friend Tofazfou. We have both found the same things. While some choked barrels shoot slugs well, it is not the norm. What is of vital importance is the the slug be sized to the grove dia. In a non choked bbl. the slug has to be no more than .0003 over, and often does well with -.0001 under.

IN a choked barrel, the same is true. However, regardless of the grove dia. of the bbl, only the grove dia. of the choke matters. Period.

I rec'd an FX Superior Heavy bbll in .22 that was of course choked. It was before they were released to the public. It was the worst shooting bbl. I've ever shot a slug thru. Uppon close inspection, I fond that in the choking of the barrel, the worker had spun the barrel while applying the pressure of the press to choke it. it ended up being a complete smooth bore for the last 2 inches. Not even the b ginning of a twist of any kind what so ever.

I contacted FX, as AI was supposed to test the bbl. several times, (Which I paid in full for) and they have yet to bother returning my calls or emails. 

I removed the choke polished the bore, re-crowned and and dit is tack driver of the highest order. It is mounted in a Raptor.

As many AG's as i have tested, only one choked bbl. is a true pinpoint shooter. It is Made by CZ, which make their barrels to PB quality spec'. It is fully lapped and polished from the factory. It will hold 1 to 3/4 at 100 yards in good conditions with ease.

The biggest issue is that most shooters have no knowledge of what i takes to shoot slugs ir cast and size same. We PB shooters have learned this for well over a century.

Air gunners and slug makers have in many cases spun their wheels in trying to find success, where the knowledge of what works and doesn't work is well known. Worse yet, the bit wig U-Tube stars such a Dubber completely dismiss all knowledge on the subject. I tried to help him, but was of course ignored. Same with FX. I could have saved them a lot of time, and customer the headache and expense of having to purchase and try so many iterations of the same theme with slightly tweaks over and over again. but I guess it is what it is. they sure have made a lot of money on using the air gunners as test pigs, so I gues s it was/is in their best interest financially. As long as people keep reaching of re3h golden ring and falling for it. The pursuit of accuracy is surely one of our most cherished goals. And it is being used to great effect in making a dollar by many of the companies.

Want a sure fire accurate bbl. for shooting slugs, purchase a pb barrel liner designed with the twist rate for the fps and length of slugs you intend to use. Like I said, they've been doing this for well over a century, with a very high degree of precision. Forget that it is an airgun, as that mentality only fits pellets. It is a slug shooter, Air or Powder.

Knife 

Fx bbl. before choke removal. o 
DSC02606.1635292728.JPG
DSC02634.1635292657.JPG
after choke removal, and before correct sizing . 

Now after sizing to correct grove size. Adn shot with my off hand due to an injury. 
DSC02498.1635292901.JPG
 

And finally after a full polish, 
DSC02656.1635293030.JPG
 

This is the same slug from an inexpensive PB barrel liner form a leading gunsmithing supply only now a .223 rather tan the .218 FX, so more power as well.
DSC02632.1635293185.JPG
Oop's wrong pic. 
DSC02570.1635293262.JPG
PB liner, under 40 bucks. Hello!

They are available in just about any cal. with a verity of twist rates. For instance, in .22, if you want to shoot a light slug, order a firearm .22 short barrel. If heavier, a .22 Long Rifle bbl. It has already been well documented and is industry standards. From regular factory quality to the best custom barrels made. All available to your. And yes, they shoot pellets just fine!

Brownell's Gunsmithing Supply for starters, TJ's for heaver liners, to some of the finest custom match and bench rest barrels known to man. All at your finger tips. And all proper heated, top grade steels that can be cleaned with a brush without damage. No soft Air gun low quality steel whatsoever. 

Knife 
 
Thank you everybody for your replies and you thoughts. Extra thanks to Knifemaker for your detailed info and photos. I’d like to learn more about the rimfire barrels or barrel liners that you referred to. I’ll check out Brownells. Do you happen to have an exact name of the liner or a link. Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate everybody taking time to reply.

Kenny
 
Thank you everybody for your replies and you thoughts. Extra thanks to Knifemaker for your detailed info and photos. I’d like to learn more about the rimfire barrels or barrel liners that you referred to. I’ll check out Brownells. Do you happen to have an exact name of the liner or a link. Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate everybody taking time to reply.

Kenny

Just type in .22 barrel liners at Brownell's Gunsmithing Supply. they are made for them by Red man. But lower cost than from Brownell's gunsmithing supply. .

PB+ Powder burner. We use that a lot on air gun forums as Fire Arm is frowned on in many countries. 

Knife
 
Can a PB barrel liner be purchased for my 700mm,25cal, M3 ? And where do I find it?

Yes. 

Brownell's, TJ's barrel liners, Redman Liners, or any firearm barrel maker including custom. 

Yes, you can simply purchase a heavy fx liner, but a true firearm liner will shoot may more types of slugs with success. and ALL liners, including fx have to be fitted. They only fit fx guns without mods. I usually heavily wrap them with High modus carbon fiber tubing and then hope for the best. FX barrels are designed for their mostly hollow bodied slugs which fit the barrels which are more like a pellet than a true slut. YMMV.

FX barrels are incredibly thin. (so are the Brownell's barrels which are near identical in od.),. Either need an outer sleeve for stiffness. The TJ's are much thicker and can be used as it with the leade cut and crowned. Dyotat-100 has been using the TJ's for years in his famous and widely copied .257 and big bore Talon/Dors. 

Knife

P. S.-The PB liners are available
GKiAsYF  TJs PB barrel guide.1635369416.jpg
where as the fx liners are often not, or the specs in twist have changed by the time you actually get them.