If you don't want to read the entire long post, just jump to the Summary section at the end of post
Practically since the beginning of the launch of our CNC turned ATP slugs on the market, we regularly receive questions about the selling price, especially when compared to other slugs produced by a different technology
I'd like to put some information out there on this topic and bring more information rather than answering the same thing over and over again.
Even here on the forum, there is a topic where the higher price of our slugs is discussed, and as the main reason most authors state that it is a unique product that has no competition on the market and that is why the price is higher.
The only part that is true is that it really is a unique product, because apart from us, no one in the world has been producing airgun lead slugs with this technology for more than 5 years. But the reason for the higher price is something else, which I will describe later in the text.
First of all, I would like to introduce the common procedure of pressed slugs or pressed pellets:
The procedure is that a lead wire of a given diameter is made and it is then introduced into a machine, which turns it into ball (pellets) or cylinders of a given length (slugs).
These blanks are then sprinkled into a pressing machine, which turns them into the final projectile.
In most cases, we can talk about the production time of one projectile in the range of 0.5 - 1,2s, i.e. you will make 120-50 pcs per minute , 7200-3000 pcs per hour.
These projectiles are then very often poured directly from the machine containers into a specific package and sent to the customer. Some samples can be taken continuously for control. For example, at JSB, an optical inspection by a worker is included between the production and packaging process, but it is not a standard procedure for all manufacturers.
Often manufacturers also use a harder mixture of lead, which survives simple packaging (pouring into a bag) and even harder transport without damage, but they have disadvantages in difficult insertion into the barrel or the possibility of stuck directly in the barrel at lower outputs (even 45J may not be sufficient output for shot from the barrel).
Now I will describe a very rough process of manufacturing CNC turned slugs (there is no point in trying to ask us about the details, we will never publish them)
The process begins similarly by creating a lead wire of a given diameter. This is where the similarity ends, as this wire is then manually processed by a worker and then transferred to a special single-purpose turning machine that we developed and built ourselves.
The main problem is the softness of lead, which can be damaged by practically anything, for example even with inappropriate manual measurement. I will not mention the next series of problems, but I will go to the most important.
The machining process itself from start to finish, when we get a finished 1 CNC turning ATP slug takes from 15 to 25s according to the type of slug !!!
This means that this process is 15-50 times slower than in the production of pressed slug!!!
An example of the production of CNC monolithic firearms bullets by the most famous manufacturer
The machining time alone (which is far from the end of the whole process) corresponds to the fact that one machine is able toproduce around 4 pcs of ATP 32gr .22 per minute, 240 pcs per hour!
So if you are shooting targeted precision, where it is not a problem to get to a speed of 4 shots per minute, then the same time you spend shooting, the same time the given machine must be in operation and producing slugs!
After the machining itself, each slug is optically inspected by a employee and each slug is measured to see if it meets the required dimensions, and if not, it is discarded. The required dimension must fit within a tolerance in the order of microns (ten thousandths of an inch). Of course, we can never guarantee 100% certainty of the final inspection, but we do our best to do so.
This is followed by the manual insertion of each individual slug into the manufactured foam matrix, which is then manually vacuumed to strengthen the package and limit contact with the atmosphere. If you think that just putting slugs into a foam matrix is a simple and quick matter, you can try it yourself on your ATP slug packaging to see how long it takes. Yes, in theory, it would be possible to invent automatic loading, but you are not sure whether there would be mechanical damage to the slugs
All these steps are necessary to preserve the properties of the slug as it leaves the turning machine, so that they are not damaged during transport or packaging and their properties are not degraded of mechanical damage.
Originally, we wanted to do packaging like other manufacturers do, but we quickly found out that this is not a suitable way to deliver a perfect slug even for the most demanding customers, because it doesn't matter how exactly you make the slugs, if it doesn't reach the customer in this perfect condition.
Summary
Pressed slugs:
- speed of production: 0.5 - 1,2s, i.e. you will make 120-50 pcs per minute , 7200-3000 pcs per hour.
- production control: often checking only random samples, not each individual slug
- packaging: often pouring into the bag directly from the machine's magazine -some manufacturers separated slug in package from itself
- hardness of lead: some manufacturers use hard lead to make it easier to pack the slugs and still not risk much damage during transport
Altaros ATP CNC turned slugs:
- speed of production: 15 to 25s according to the type of slug, 4 pcs of ATP 32gr per minute, 240 pcs per hour !
- production control: optical checked and measured each slug
- packaging: manual insertion of each individual slug into the manufactured foam matrix, which is then manually vacuumed
- hardness of lead: uses almost pure lead for maximum slug softness
We can make a comparison of the most requested oure slugs ATP King 40gr, where the price is 0.15 - 0.18 $ per piece
Again:
similarly heavy FX Hybrid Slugs 44gr, where the price is 0.17 $ per piece. Utah, USA
similarly heavy Patrito slugs 40gr, where the price is 0.13 $ per piece. Krale EU
similarly heavy Zan slugs 40gr, where the price is 0.09 $ per piece. Krale EU
so it can be seen that in some cases ATP King is not even the most expensive slug on the market and when we compare the price of 0.15 $ vs 0.09 $, it is a difference only of 40%.
I then decide for each of you whether we demand a higher price for our unike products that we make 15-50x slower production speed, or on the contrary, some other manufacturers who, unlike us, all use similar production technology are not only using their strong marketing position on the market to sell you a similar slugs at a much higher price, which someone else is able to produce 2-5 cheaper in almost the same quality.
In the firearms ammunition market, it is common for the highest ranges of ammunition intended for the most accurate shooting, where every several % of total bether accuracy is paid dearly, to cost up to 5 times more than the basic range. An example is the top .22 LR ammunition from LAPU or RWS again standard .22 LR.
If we were to compare the price of our production with a similar production, then the closest comparison is this cutting edge 40gr .223 bullets where the price is 0.7 $ per piece, i.e. almost 5 times higher, and at the same time, compared to ours, it is a classic standard machining, of normally machinable materials, for which you can directly buy a CNC machine, you do not have to develop and build it.
Cutting Edge 40gr .223 bullets
I have already been asked by a few people from my surroundings, who are active in the world of CNC machining or have a machining company themselves, whether we are even able to make a profit with such a poor production speed/price ratio. Yes, we are, and it costs us a lot of effort, but it is definitely not the kind of profit you might have imagined before reading this post.
Practically since the beginning of the launch of our CNC turned ATP slugs on the market, we regularly receive questions about the selling price, especially when compared to other slugs produced by a different technology
I'd like to put some information out there on this topic and bring more information rather than answering the same thing over and over again.
Even here on the forum, there is a topic where the higher price of our slugs is discussed, and as the main reason most authors state that it is a unique product that has no competition on the market and that is why the price is higher.
The only part that is true is that it really is a unique product, because apart from us, no one in the world has been producing airgun lead slugs with this technology for more than 5 years. But the reason for the higher price is something else, which I will describe later in the text.
First of all, I would like to introduce the common procedure of pressed slugs or pressed pellets:
The procedure is that a lead wire of a given diameter is made and it is then introduced into a machine, which turns it into ball (pellets) or cylinders of a given length (slugs).
These blanks are then sprinkled into a pressing machine, which turns them into the final projectile.
In most cases, we can talk about the production time of one projectile in the range of 0.5 - 1,2s, i.e. you will make 120-50 pcs per minute , 7200-3000 pcs per hour.
These projectiles are then very often poured directly from the machine containers into a specific package and sent to the customer. Some samples can be taken continuously for control. For example, at JSB, an optical inspection by a worker is included between the production and packaging process, but it is not a standard procedure for all manufacturers.
Often manufacturers also use a harder mixture of lead, which survives simple packaging (pouring into a bag) and even harder transport without damage, but they have disadvantages in difficult insertion into the barrel or the possibility of stuck directly in the barrel at lower outputs (even 45J may not be sufficient output for shot from the barrel).
Now I will describe a very rough process of manufacturing CNC turned slugs (there is no point in trying to ask us about the details, we will never publish them)
The process begins similarly by creating a lead wire of a given diameter. This is where the similarity ends, as this wire is then manually processed by a worker and then transferred to a special single-purpose turning machine that we developed and built ourselves.
The main problem is the softness of lead, which can be damaged by practically anything, for example even with inappropriate manual measurement. I will not mention the next series of problems, but I will go to the most important.
The machining process itself from start to finish, when we get a finished 1 CNC turning ATP slug takes from 15 to 25s according to the type of slug !!!
This means that this process is 15-50 times slower than in the production of pressed slug!!!
An example of the production of CNC monolithic firearms bullets by the most famous manufacturer
The machining time alone (which is far from the end of the whole process) corresponds to the fact that one machine is able toproduce around 4 pcs of ATP 32gr .22 per minute, 240 pcs per hour!
So if you are shooting targeted precision, where it is not a problem to get to a speed of 4 shots per minute, then the same time you spend shooting, the same time the given machine must be in operation and producing slugs!
After the machining itself, each slug is optically inspected by a employee and each slug is measured to see if it meets the required dimensions, and if not, it is discarded. The required dimension must fit within a tolerance in the order of microns (ten thousandths of an inch). Of course, we can never guarantee 100% certainty of the final inspection, but we do our best to do so.
This is followed by the manual insertion of each individual slug into the manufactured foam matrix, which is then manually vacuumed to strengthen the package and limit contact with the atmosphere. If you think that just putting slugs into a foam matrix is a simple and quick matter, you can try it yourself on your ATP slug packaging to see how long it takes. Yes, in theory, it would be possible to invent automatic loading, but you are not sure whether there would be mechanical damage to the slugs
All these steps are necessary to preserve the properties of the slug as it leaves the turning machine, so that they are not damaged during transport or packaging and their properties are not degraded of mechanical damage.
Originally, we wanted to do packaging like other manufacturers do, but we quickly found out that this is not a suitable way to deliver a perfect slug even for the most demanding customers, because it doesn't matter how exactly you make the slugs, if it doesn't reach the customer in this perfect condition.
Summary
Pressed slugs:
- speed of production: 0.5 - 1,2s, i.e. you will make 120-50 pcs per minute , 7200-3000 pcs per hour.
- production control: often checking only random samples, not each individual slug
- packaging: often pouring into the bag directly from the machine's magazine -some manufacturers separated slug in package from itself
- hardness of lead: some manufacturers use hard lead to make it easier to pack the slugs and still not risk much damage during transport
Altaros ATP CNC turned slugs:
- speed of production: 15 to 25s according to the type of slug, 4 pcs of ATP 32gr per minute, 240 pcs per hour !
- production control: optical checked and measured each slug
- packaging: manual insertion of each individual slug into the manufactured foam matrix, which is then manually vacuumed
- hardness of lead: uses almost pure lead for maximum slug softness
We can make a comparison of the most requested oure slugs ATP King 40gr, where the price is 0.15 - 0.18 $ per piece
Again:
similarly heavy FX Hybrid Slugs 44gr, where the price is 0.17 $ per piece. Utah, USA
similarly heavy Patrito slugs 40gr, where the price is 0.13 $ per piece. Krale EU
similarly heavy Zan slugs 40gr, where the price is 0.09 $ per piece. Krale EU
so it can be seen that in some cases ATP King is not even the most expensive slug on the market and when we compare the price of 0.15 $ vs 0.09 $, it is a difference only of 40%.
I then decide for each of you whether we demand a higher price for our unike products that we make 15-50x slower production speed, or on the contrary, some other manufacturers who, unlike us, all use similar production technology are not only using their strong marketing position on the market to sell you a similar slugs at a much higher price, which someone else is able to produce 2-5 cheaper in almost the same quality.
In the firearms ammunition market, it is common for the highest ranges of ammunition intended for the most accurate shooting, where every several % of total bether accuracy is paid dearly, to cost up to 5 times more than the basic range. An example is the top .22 LR ammunition from LAPU or RWS again standard .22 LR.
If we were to compare the price of our production with a similar production, then the closest comparison is this cutting edge 40gr .223 bullets where the price is 0.7 $ per piece, i.e. almost 5 times higher, and at the same time, compared to ours, it is a classic standard machining, of normally machinable materials, for which you can directly buy a CNC machine, you do not have to develop and build it.
Cutting Edge 40gr .223 bullets
I have already been asked by a few people from my surroundings, who are active in the world of CNC machining or have a machining company themselves, whether we are even able to make a profit with such a poor production speed/price ratio. Yes, we are, and it costs us a lot of effort, but it is definitely not the kind of profit you might have imagined before reading this post.
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