Tuning Slug guns? V/S Pellet guns

[airgunmike56]

With all the slug stuff going on , Why are there not more slug guns and barrels being made? Is not the twist rate different for a slug barrel and a pellet barrel?? Did I learn it wrong, What I am hearing is we have a pellet gun that will shoot pellets OK and slugs OK, I am a pellet shooter and i want a barrel that is a full out 100% pellet shooter , The hell with slugs,,,, But if I wanted to shoot slugs and I do someday I want a 100% slug gun the hell with pellets !!!!! I don't think we can have 100% accuracy both ways, Or maybe the twist rates of the barrels are all wrong, I always thought a good pellet barrel needed a choke, But now we are making barrels with no choke so it can shoot slugs, but what about the pellets??? Some one with a little higher IQ jump in here and help me,,,
Mike

 

[EdinGa]

I don't know what price range you're looking at but my .177 Bullshark loves JSB Knockouts and isn't pellet picky at all. From what I understand, it has a 1:19 twist choked barrel.

 

[markhooper]

from my experience with watching my friend trying to get the correct barrel for his 223 ar.. sorry it's a powder burner but I think? some of his experiences might be helpful.. so depending on the weight of the ammo he needed different twist rate.. I have no idea what speed they were going.. but fast.. and unfortunately I don't remember what the twist rate was for heavy vs light.. but I don't remember the wrong twist rate went everywhere and we were trying to figure out why and on paper it was a slot instead of a hole.. so we backed up with plywood and they were tumbling.. I wish I knew what it ended up to be, unfortunately he's passed away..
but I would think that speed would be the major factor in what twist rate is needed..
also pellets can cause another issue.. the skirts need to seal to hold and use the air pressure but if the nose is not at least lightly engaging the rifling it's going to not fly well..
having my own machine shop, id really like to get a avenger X 22 and know it's twist rate and then order a barrel blank same length and see what twist rate is needed to stabilize..
with as easy as swapping barrels one could possibly use a barrel for slugs and a different one for pellets..
around 30 years ago it was popular for target shooters to use a sizer and get all the pellet noses along with skirts the same.. if it was correct it just went through, too large and it compressed it down and too small it dropped through and was culled , possibly just for plinking.. I'm also thinking it why some pellets shoot better than any brand.. different head size.. I think the skirt is fine as long as it is big enough because it's thin..
slugs are a different story.. more surface contact and not hollow like a pellet so it can't compress in the bore..
another thing I really don't like is the variation of the actual barrel bore.. it should be standard for all guns of the same caliber and then I think it would take a lot of guesswork out of finding what shoots better..
just my thoughts.. hopefully someone else will get in this conversation with more knowledge..
however if someone wanted to do some experiments with twist rate.. got a avenger X and got a couple different ones that are lothar Walther barrel blank, I'd be happy to fit them and they could try different twist rate to speed.. because if you hold the speed even, I think one twist rate will be better than another.. while a heavy slug is likely going to max out the gun and possibly have less speed and need a different twist rate to stabilize it .
the reason I am also curious about the avenger X is the high and low transfer port setting.. I'm thinking from what I read that it could be tuned to shoot heavy slugs or pellets and then turn transfer port to low and shoot light cheap pellets just for plinking..
Mark

 

[rcarlisle]

This is partly why I went with a platform that would allow a barrel swap when I bought my Dreamline a couple of years ago. I've dabbled in slugs with varying results and nothing outperforming pellets for my brand of shooting. But stuff changes and if I ever need or want to, I can get a slug barrel for the Dreamline pretty easily. I'd look at something that has good potential for swapping barrels, or maybe even just accept that having two guns is the better solution.
@markhooper : I like the pup in your avatar. Is that a Blue Heeler?

 

[starlingassn]

easier to have specialized guns for each application.

pellets = choked barrel and slower speeds
slugs = unchoked barrel and faster speeds.

my .25 impact m3 compact is my pellet shooter,
and does so with almost unbelievable accuracy.

my uragan 2 .25 600mm is my slug shooter,
and will shoot its favorite slug at 60yds nearly as good as my impact shoots pellets at 50.

 

[Seagull65]

easier to have specialized guns for each application.

pellets = choked barrel and slower speeds
slugs = unchoked barrel and faster speeds.

my .25 impact m3 compact is my pellet shooter,
and does so with almost unbelievable accuracy.

my uragan 2 .25 600mm is my slug shooter,
and will shoot its favorite slug at 60yds nearly as good as my impact shoots pellets at 50.

Curious about its favorite slug ?

 

[Ranchibi]

Like starlingassn said above. The reason I purchased my RAW....it has a non choked poly barrel that shoots slugs as accurately as pellets....it still took time and effort to shoot both accurately using the same tune (something I wanted). Twist rates, speeds and slug fitting all has to mesh to get great accuracy especially with slugs to get optimal spin. I shoot the 18gr JSB which have a large margin for accuracy with speeds so that helped immensely, didn't have to worry about their speed, mostly just the slugs.

 

[markhooper]

This is partly why I went with a platform that would allow a barrel swap when I bought my Dreamline a couple of years ago. I've dabbled in slugs with varying results and nothing outperforming pellets for my brand of shooting. But stuff changes and if I ever need or want to, I can get a slug barrel for the Dreamline pretty easily. I'd look at something that has good potential for swapping barrels, or maybe even just accept that having two guns is the better solution.
@markhooper : I like the pup in your avatar. Is that a Blue Heeler?

yes she is a purebred toy mini blue heeler.. she is full grown 16" tall and 16 lbs.. I love my girls and they love me.. my other one is a full size red and blue heeler mix.. she is a bit over 10 years.. she changes colors during the year sometimes a little more black on top when shedding but most of the time silver back.. it's funny looking at a single hair as it's black on the bottom, middle is red and white or silver on the top end..
I'll try to attach a picture of both so you can see the size difference between the standard and the toy mini blue heeler.
Mark

 

[rcarlisle]

A mini?! How cool is that? I've got a female standard sized with similar markings as your mini. I also had a male, years ago when I lived in New Orleans. But all my dogs are rescued in some way and Moxie is the first cattledog to come my way since. Anyway, I've got a thing for Blue Heelers. Sorry for the momentary derail.

 

[markhooper]

A mini?! How cool is that? I've got a female standard sized with similar markings as your mini. I also had a male, years ago when I lived in New Orleans. But all my dogs are rescued in some way and Moxie is the first cattledog to come my way since. Anyway, I've got a thing for Blue Heelers. Sorry for the momentary derail.

toy mini.. full size was behind laying down.. let me see if I have a picture of the mini I had but my daughter wanted her so she is with my daughter.. she was a regular mini, not a toy mini like my picture is..
my toy mini is the only one that I have had in years that was not a rescue.. both the one my daughter has and my full size red/blue heeler were rescued.. yes I'm partial to heeler but if you are running cattle the boarder Collie and a blue heeler makes a good team.. the border Collie guides the front of the heard and the heeler keeps them together and going where you want them..
Mark