Slow Regulators? Please explain...

I read a review by a well known airgun reviewer who uses the term “slow regulator”. I’m trying to understand what exactly that means. So if the HPA side instantly fills the plenum to a set bar, then the hammer striking the valve releases the air in the plenum. How can the regulator be slow. Isn’t its job to just allow a set amount of air into the plenum? I’m trying to understand the “moving air slower” part. My understanding is HPA side feeds plenum through regulator, plenum is emptied at the opening of valve. Rinse and repeat, where and how does the slow regulator part come in? Is what’s being described not known as regulator “creep”. Very confusing the term “slow regulator“ as applied.
 
L.Leon,

Are you referring to the “refresh” rate of the regulator? You can see on the regulator set pressure gauge the drop and refresh back to set pressure when shot. Slow refresh = slow regulator? That’s what I think of in a slow regulator. Creep on the other hand is when the pressure creeps beyond the regs set pressure.


 
The reg will refill slowly depending on the pathway of air from the reservoir . For instance , on a AA ProTarget reg, the air travels through the screw threads of the adjustment screw. It COULD be enhanced with a slot but with this design, allows greater precision of the pressure regulation. More recent developments in paintball regs allow faster refresh times with acceptable precision, I would guess . I've not been inside a good one to know how they do it. Humas and FXs seem to be able to keep acceptable velocity variation with fast fire. I'm not familiar with a lot of others.

Anyway..... it's all about fast fire or not.

Bob
 
Depending on the gun and the generation some guns can take a few seconds after a shot for the plenum to fill to full pressure again depending on the size of the plenum and the port sizes on the regulator. If you consider all of the air to fill the plenum has to go through several tiny holes in the regulator you can begin to understand why that is


 
Time is required to allow the regulator to fill the plenum to set pressure. The regulator uses spring pressure to control movement

of a piston to open and close air flow air into the plenum at a set pressure. The design of the regulator, size of ports, piston, etc. will

determine how fast the plenum is filled. Some regulators require a few seconds, often longer when new, to fill the plenum to a set

pressure. Some regulators are fast and work well in a semi-auto air guns.


 
Several good points have been raised so far about aperture size, creep versus slow fill rate, etc.



I read the review you’re referring to and I think we may as well identify the make and model as being the SPA PP700S-A because it has a few unusual issues compared to most other regulator designs that bear calling attention to.



One is that the Belleville washers are a small diameter with relatively little travel compared to more common regulators I’ve encountered. That has the potential to cause a slow refill because the valve seat doesn’t open very far.



From the factory, they are arranged in a 2P 5S arrangement (( )) (( )) ((. I decided to reconfigure mine to a plain series arrangement of 9 () () () () ( which almost doubles the travel. Note it also halves the spring rate which means I can’t achieve as high of a setpoint but that was fine for my purposes because I wanted to tune to around 600fps for a longer shot count. Sorry, I did not explore the limits of adjustment so I can’t comment on how this arrangement would support other states of tune.



A second issue is related to the valve seat. It is formed by the conical underside of a screw meeting a tapered opening in a plastic washer. That creates a fairly large area which has to mate so perfectly as to prevent very small and highly motivated molecules of gas from getting by. I attempted to lap mine together to deal with it. Twice. It’s a fidgety thing because the parts are so small so I finally decided to just flip the washer over so the screw could mate with something more closely approximating a knife edge. That simple change focuses the applied force onto a smaller area and makes it easier to form a positive seal between them.



But you may wonder why I am talking about creep in the context of a slow fill. Well, in this particular case, the author was describing it taking 2 minutes to refill. That time scale elbows its way into the realm of creep.



Lastly, a third issue relates to how the high and low pressure sides are separated by a crush seal where the same plastic washer is squeezed between the two halves of the regulator body. It is extraordinarily difficult to get it to seal properly when you reassemble it. Even with a custom-made tool, I could not develop enough torque to keep it from leaking. It was a well-known problem and there was a simple fix published to simply drop an O-ring into the pocket before threading the regulator back together.



That’s all well and good. It keeps the air from escaping out into the world, but what hadn’t been considered is what effect did it have to the operation of the regulator. Well, now that the air is trapped inside, it squirms its way around the washer and into the plenum, causing the pressure to slowly rise until it finally gets high enough to push the head of the screw down hard enough to cause the underside of the plastic washer to seal against the regulator body and halt the flow of air that’s been seeping under it. Supergluing the disc in place remedied that problem in mine.



All told, it was definitely my most challenging regulator ever but I’m pleased to say it now exhibits no creep and the fill rate is faster than I can load the next pellet.
 
I understand slow regulator as the time it takes for the reduced pressure to stabilise.

On the regulators I am familiar with there are a few causes. 

Too little piston endfloat (how far it opens and closes) the gap between inlet and sealing face is insufficient to allow the air to move freely. To big and the reg pressure becomes inconsistent.



The sealing face being to soft or dented, the plenum fill the reg shuts but doesn’t give a complete seal, the pressure slowly rises until it forces the piston to seal (much like screwing down tightly to stop a dripping tap)



Often over looked, the connection between the air reservoir and the reg, I have noticed that sometimes there is insufficient flow between the two, this causes an intermittent slow reg fill, the reg works fine when the charge if full, as the air is being used up, the reg fills slower and slower as the pressure differential between incoming pressure and reg pressure narrows.



Bb