Skout Skout Epoch Share and Discussion

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We have been testing our new Epoch for a few days now, and I'm very impressed. I have newer seen a regulator respond so quickly. I tried a speed shoot yesterday, shooting a full 22 shot mag of 30 cal 50 gr. in 44 seconds while we filmed the regulated pressure gauge. It was set at 1,350psi and dropped to maybe 1,150 and back to 1,350 is a split second... other guns I've owned, have taken 3- 5 seconds making accurate speed shooting out of the question.

In 44 seconds, the Epoch and I made a 22 shot group about 1 1/4" high and 3" wide with 12 in one hole right where I was holding the crosshairs. The wind was quartering in from the right at 2 - 11mph and I just held in the same spot, so the 3" width was due to that. If there was no wind the 22 shot group would have been 1 1/4" in speed shooting mode:)
I'm in love..
We did have to add some weight with an attachment for fitting into an adjustable front rest. The video we made showed NO movement of the barrel when shooting at 1,350psi with the 35" long barrel 50gr 30cal at 980fps



Wayne
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Something of note: in this style of valve for consistency and speed the gas utilized must be extremely dry! (Any Airgun but especially this valve)

Believe it or not their style of valve is actually quite slow because of length of stroke and stiction in part by the plenum and adjustability for the duration it’s open. We as Airgunners require this, the style of valve I’m accustomed to requires precise ports and orifices to deliver a very precise amount of gas at set PSI. To adjust requires a change in the dimensions of these ports. ( does not make for easy adjustment for our requirements. )
 
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nomojo65 said:
Something of note: in this style of valve for consistency and speed the gas utilized must be extremely dry! (Any Airgun but especially this valve)

Believe it or not their style of valve is actually quite slow because of length of stroke and stiction in part by the plenum and adjustability for the duration it’s open. We as Airgunners require this, the style of valve I’m accustomed to requires precise ports and orifices to deliver a very precise amount of gas at set PSI. To adjust requires a change in the dimensions of these ports. ( does not make for easy adjustment for our requirements. )
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Not so sure some statements here ring true ?
While a spool valve .. YES
But long stroke and slow it's not !!

Unlike a Paintball markers spool valve having an operational stroke near 3/4" ..... The Skouts valve stroke is less than 1/8"
Making the reactive motion near instant upon getting a LP pulse from solenoid.
Is it a precise system requiring specific size jets, passages etc .... somewhat very much so. Tho said alterations in flow and timing can be changed with educated execution.
On my SKOUT I've already altered some of these parts. All positive thus far.

Point being .... This tech while NEW in our air gun world, has been around for many many years & not going anywhere IMO now that a manufacturer has stepped up and designed a PCP rifle around the valve & electronic contol tech.
 
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Cold blustery day ... So spent a few hours out in the shop doing some further SKOUT modifications :love:

A peeve I've had since early on was the Cocking handle NOT ABLE to stay full rearward allowing magazine to come Out or be Put back in IF & WHEN the muzzle was below level or especially if pointed sharply downward. Takes two hands, one too HOLD the handle full back, Other to remove / insert the magazine.

As I looked around WHERE or HOW I could create some sort of detent for the handle, found needing to look at the overall parts in motion following the handles swing.
AH HA !!!! In removing the scope rail to expose the top side of frame and the Probe cycling rail an ingenious idea came to mind following SKOUT in there use of rare earth magnets (y)
Measuring a Hole in the end of probe cycling rail between the attachment screws to the cage that we see moving back/forth around the barrel shroud was a hole just smaller than 1/4" .... Taking a .250 reamer by hand opened up the hole a tad @ 5/32" deep so a 1/4 x 5/32 rare earth magnet would press in flush.

Next after doing some measuring of where this magnet stops when Cocking handle is full rearward, found it's location landed ideally in a machined out area of the top frame. Ok, mark it's location, and drill a pilot hole for a 8-32 counter bore tool ( @240" ) taking the hole within @ .020" of breaking threw, then open up too @ .250" we have a second spot for another rare earth magnet. Press it in and place a small drop of loc-tite 290 wicking to secure both.

Pull handle back now & we get a magnetic bump & hold having handle stay 100% at the rear of cocking stroke. Muzzle can point straight down and handle still stays open ... WOO HOO so excellent !! The magnets never touch & can't, but there strong attraction acts like a detent. The effort to cycle the handle when cocking / cycling you don't even notice. And can now load / remove magazines so much easier / faster one handed !!!!

;) I have Forwarded this info to SKOUT.

Scott S

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Had forgot to mention, the hole used on the end of probe rail is for access to one of the screws holding the "basket" to lower slide rail.
If for some reason one ever took the rifle apart that far ? the magnet would need to be tapped back out from the trigger block side.
Considering factory has placed RED loc-tite on these screws, it's telling not a place expected to ever be dismantled :eek:
 
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Motorhead said:
Cold blustery day ... So spent a few hours out in the shop doing some further SKOUT modifications :love:

A peeve I've had since early on was the Cocking handle NOT ABLE to stay full rearward allowing magazine to come Out or be Put back in IF & WHEN the muzzle was below level or especially if pointed sharply downward. Takes two hands, one too HOLD the handle full back, Other to remove / insert the magazine.

As I looked around WHERE or HOW I could create some sort of detent for the handle, found needing to look at the overall parts in motion following the handles swing.
AH HA !!!! In removing the scope rail to expose the top side of frame and the Probe cycling rail an ingenious idea came to mind following SKOUT in there use of rare earth magnets (y)
Measuring a Hole in the end of probe cycling rail between the attachment screws to the cage that we see moving back/forth around the barrel shroud was a hole just smaller than 1/4" .... Taking a .250 reamer by hand opened up the hole a tad @ 5/32" deep so a 1/4 x 5/32 rare earth magnet would press in flush.

Next after doing some measuring of where this magnet stops when Cocking handle is full rearward, found it's location landed ideally in a machined out area of the top frame. Ok, mark it's location, and drill a pilot hole for a 8-32 counter bore tool ( @240" ) taking the hole within @ .020" of breaking threw, then open up too @ .250" we have a second spot for another rare earth magnet. Press it in and place a small drop of loc-tite 290 wicking to secure both.

Pull handle back now & we get a magnetic bump & hold having handle stay 100% at the rear of cocking stroke. Muzzle can point straight down and handle still stays open ... WOO HOO so excellent !! The magnets never touch & can't, but there strong attraction acts like a detent. The effort to cycle the handle when cocking / cycling you don't even notice. And can now load / remove magazines so much easier / faster one handed !!!!

;) I have Forwarded this info to SKOUT.

Scott S

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Very cool Scott.. nice added touch.

Wayne
 
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Lewis said:
The valve dwarfs the one from my Impact.
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The air passage is angled nicely.


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All the electrical contacts are pogo pins at detachable points.

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The trigger rides on bearings and uses an adjustable magnet as a return spring. I set mine to a 5 oz pull with almost no post travel LOVE IT!
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Only broken down to the basic components. All in all, very impressive.


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I replied to the wrong post, nevermind
 
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Motorhead said:
A thought had early on, that is showing to be true and may not be ideal for every location ?
Polyurethane O-rings
While there the toughest of all the materials, there one of the worst to take a shape set having poor shape retention elasticity.
In DYNAMIC locations absolutely, Static locations far better served with a Buna/N IMO :rolleyes:

Looking at above pics, one can already detect flat siding of some and pressure side shape shift on others.

This has NOTHING to do with the design or engineering ... Just that they have chosen to use pretty white / opaque Poly o-rings threw out that IMO are not the ideal choice for many of the locations.
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Not so Scott, material selection is definitely the purview of the designer and engineer. Surprised you don’t realize that.
LD
 
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Therealld said:
Not so Scott, material selection is definitely the purview of the designer and engineer. Surprised you don’t realize that.
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Well, being SKOUT has already come to find out ( Unlike Paint ballers ) We the PCP crowd DO NOT degas our guns. And if you had read the thread :rolleyes: you would already been educated to this and the "Why For" they are now coming with a bottle ON/OFF valve exactly for this reason. The poly rings in the Dynamic locations which is great for wear & tear, won't like being under pressure all the time.

I'm well aware of the rifle you designed so many years ago & its exclusive use of Hard Poly rings in all the STATIC locations & rifle having NO dynamic use of o-rings outside the swinging loading gate ( being Rotation actually )

The two guns from different eras could not be any more different. (y)

Stay well LD
 
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A lot of us Paintballers degas our guns for transport. Most of us dismount the air system from the marker for ease when packing a gear bag. A lot of poppet style markers will hold pressure like PCP guns over time. I have yet to experience a spool valve marker do the same. Oring stiction tends to be an issue with spool valve markers, reason for the more exotic oring material..
 
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Motorhead said:
Doing the math ( area calculations ) opening up the vent from the OEM .035" just .002" to .037" yielded an @ 10% larger hole. ( yes I did this )
Pressure for equal speed needed to be bumped up @ 25-35 psi. Shot cycle is sounding much crisper telling of a shorter dwell (y)
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Spent some time shooting today with the slightly larger vent in poppet head. Rifle clearly sounds snappier, lower THUMP volume at muzzle and just shooting stellar with @ 45 grain weigh pellets.
Just user R&D or as one may say .. fine tuning ? Jury is listening, liking what their hearing ... but no judgements as of yet.
This valve tech is new to all of us ;)
 
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Motorhead said:
Spent some time shooting today with the slightly larger vent in poppet head. Rifle clearly sounds snappier, lower THUMP volume at muzzle and just shooting stellar with @ 45 grain weigh pellets.
Just user R&D or as one may say .. fine tuning ? Jury is listening, liking what their hearing ... but no judgements as of yet.
This valve tech is new to all of us ;)
Click to expand...
Do you know if this improvement would be relevant for a .22 cal barrel, when they come out?
 
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Scotty1 said:
Do you know if this improvement would be relevant for a .22 cal barrel, when they come out?
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That might be where the mod has the potential to have dwell .. "Perhaps" becoming too short ?
Understanding that Reduced bore size is similar to a transfer size choking down, it slows down the HP air exit from poppet seat to projectile giving a tad more time for said HP air to get threw the jet and start closing the valve.

There is a process here not a lot of folks fully understand, that of how & the miens HP air in the valves throat / transfer path is used to close this type of valve, as I learned with extensive R&D of JSAR architecture balanced valves using the same method of valve closing assistance. There is a lot to this, back pressure / reduced exit flow can come from transfer Restriction, Heavier projectiles, Snugger fits & increased break away pressures etc .... It all effects other aspects of the total system. 🤪

In my mind I'm thinking I may be OK or on the edge ? .... being I had implemented a TAPERED transfer path within the barrel / seat manifold early on. That of takeing the .350" transfer at seats throat down a shallow taper exiting at .250" where barrel thimble slides & locks in.
At .22 caliber the choking effect and back pressure created will increase no doubt. ( Not run the Area calculations tho ) In what I've read & heard too date, the .357 to .25 will at this juncture be using the current valving specs, the .22 & .177 appear to need different calibration specs. Which is understandable given what I understand of the pneumatics at play.

I'm independently screwing around with my own EPOCH .... while some of it is being shared publicly, some of it kept private being part of the learning & discovery.
 
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