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Single load vs. Magazine

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M

Mikelo123

Member
Mar 24, 2017
1,130
29
WA, United States
Hey Guys and Gals hope all had a great weekend!!!

Have a question for all you engineering types out there....

Why if I single load does my accuracy improve?

If the magazine solely holds pellets and then the probe pushes said pellet into the breech why is it that when replicating that process by hand does it make a difference in accuracy?

I took out some of my FX rifles today and just to test I single loaded my .30 FX Crown and Wildcat MK3 Sniper and a few other and at every range from 30-110 yards the hand load groups were tighter.

Anyone shed some light on why?

Thanks!

Dr. Mike 




 
I don’t know if this applies to air arms, but it does to fire arms or at least use to to firearms. For long range accuracy single shot bolt action rifles were always considered the most accurate because of these guns have “strongest and most stable” action. In addition to the above I think this would also apply to air rifles especially big bore air arms.
 
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I have owned only two rifles that shoot as well from the magazine as with s/s tray, the HW100 and Taipan Veteran. Both use a simple cylinder magazine that is advanced mechanically by a lever in the receiver (similar to a revolver handgun), no spring in the magazine. Obviously, an error in machining could result in a misalignment, so it's not a totally foolproof design, but both of mine work perfectly. That said, if I were shooting the Veteran in competition, I would still single load, as it just removes one variable. The Weihrauch single loader is a lever affair that is probably as likely to be victim to an alignment error as the magazine, although the single loader and both magazines have all worked perfectly. Your issue is with FX rifles. My only current FX rifle is a Royale 400, and its magazines are among the best of the spring loaded designs. Mine are the standard mags. I tried a mini mag that was stated to work with the Royale, but my results were unacceptable with it. I think you just have to test the individual rifle/magazine combination. In the Royale platform, the inlet/transfer port is attached to the barrel, and a slight variation in the barrel's rearward position can affect the magazine performance, but I don't believe that is the case with the sleeve-and-liner rifles. Your experience is not unusual.
 
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Short answer, you are introducing another variable that may (or may not) affect accuracy. No head sort/weigh sort? Another variable. Vary hold/rest each shot? Another variable. Etc..



That said, my .25 M-rod seems to slightly favor a tray. My .25 Red Wolf seems to do well with either. Maybe I can not shoot well enough to tell? Then again,... I can't drill nine 1/4" dots at 100 yards either.......................... ;)


 
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Thanks guys!

I noticed it on my Red Wolf right away and only single load that now...

Figured I would try on my FX guns and absolutely made them more accurate (not by much as they baseball accurate to begin with, but noticeable when comparing groups)...

Like one commenter said "for hunting the mag.makes more sense." but for groups etc. I see the value in single loading.

Only gun I did not see a difference in was my RAW .25 (wish that gun was quieter, love shooting it but damn they are big and loud)!

Appreciate the input fellas!

Stay Safe,

Dr. Mike 
 
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Everyone above is correct in something or all.

Most of these spring loaded circular mags can deform the skirt as pellet is seated. Even a SS tray that's not aligned exactly with your probe and breech lead in will show if engagement favored one side of pellet head. 

I seat everything I can by hand and try to avoid buying or wanting any AG that won't allow me to single load by hand. 
That's the ONLY reason I'm contemplating selling my .25 Sumatra.

That beast sends 46 grain RBT slugs at 940fps. Yeah I'm tethered & it's on max setting & 3K fill but it can put em all under 1/4" @ 40 yards and all under 1.5" @ 100. I KNOW if it had a good trigger it could do better. But I absolutely detest loading with tweezers. 
I've given .25 slugs up & turned it to #4/5 w/ 25.43 Kings. Depends on if you count bottomed out as 0 or 1.

Yes I prefer to hand seat/load everything, and there's a reason. Tolerance stacking which I can tell you from the seating pressure if a pellet or slug is going to be dead on or way off from the designs I prefer. Everything matters. 
 
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Subscribed! 😊



So, what about the single shot loaders (SSL) from Darco (3-D printed)?



Function: The SSL inserts into the breech just like a regular mag.

The shooter rotates the "loader" outward to the left, like a hinge. The loader reveals a whole where the shooter inserts the pellet.

Then the loader is rotated back into place. Now the pellet lines up with the barrel.

When moving the cocking lever/ bolt forward, the loading pin(?) pushes the pellet into the barrel.



Here are some pics, I'm not sure I explained this well enough...

https://www.carm-magazines.com/single-shot-loader-for-artemis-smk-spa-p15-diana-skyhawk.aspx



Matthias






 
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Subscribed!
1f60a.svg




So, what about the single shot loaders (SSL) from Darco (3-D printed)?



Function: The SSL inserts into the breech just like a regular mag.

The shooter rotates the "loader" outward to the left, like a hinge. The loader reveals a whole where the shooter inserts the pellet.

Then the loader is rotated back into place. Now the pellet lines up with the barrel.

When moving the cocking lever/ bolt forward, the loading pin(?) pushes the pellet into the barrel.

Matthias
Click to expand...

That is the way my HW100 single shot loader is designed, and it does not work very well. It functions fine, but accuracy is definitely better with the magazine. Luckily, the Weihrauch magazine is a wonderful design, and the machining is perfect, so alignment is not an issue. Good thing, because the excellent design of the magazine function precludes the ability to single load by hand, just no room. The CARM loader may work great, it's just something that has to be tested. 
 
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I don't think the trays are better unless you are having issues with your magazine. I am a hunter. I am not going to post groups for bragging rights using a tray and then the rest of the time use a magazine. I set my guns up with magazines for hunting and that is what I can rely on. Now, if I am in a competition and there is money on the line, you betcha I'll use whatever gives me an edge, including the single shot trays (SSS), if so.

I didn't buy a high capacity magazine gun to toss the high capacity magazine, but that's just me.
 
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On the Red Wolf there is the possibility that the magazine indexing arm is striking the pellet probe. Check to see if there is a mark on the pellet probe where it strikes it. I have read some have ground down the tip of the indexing arm and accuracy with the magazine improves. Some cure the problem by using CARM mags. My Daystate Regal is a manual operation. There is no pressure on the pellet skirt at all. It allows the magazine to advance only when I pull the bolt back and it exhibits no difference in accuracy whether I use the mag or single load. Hole in hole either way. 
 
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